What wood stove can I fit on this pad?

[Coyoterun]

Hello all!

New poster here, trying to learn as fast as I can. Trying to decide what stove to buy and getting confused by the clearance requirements. I'll try give as much relevant information as possible. I live in an old drafty farmhouse with a particularly drafty basement. The basement is 30X40' and the first floor the same. The chimney is 9X9" ID brick that will need about 32 feet of liner, but that's a subject for another post.

There is an old Ashley wood stove set up in the basement that needs to be replaced. It sits on an existing brick pad with a brick back wall. The current stove is rear venting. The vent center is 28" above the pad. The rear of the pad is 75" wide. It comes forward full width for 25 inches, and then angles in toward the center. The front of the pad is 50 inches wide and 37 inches deep. The floor underneath the pad is concrete so we can cut away a few inches of carpet and just leave exposed concrete for the clearances. The stove itself needs to stay on the existing brick. The back wall is 4" of brick laid 47" high. Behind the brick is drywall and wood studs. I'll try to attach pictures that will hopefully make more sense. Is that rear wall considered non-combustible, how close can I get to it with either of the following stoves?

I would like to get a Woodstock Absolute Steel hybrid, but it doesn't look like the clearances will fit. The Englander 13-nc should fit but I don't know if it can do overnight burns. I don't need a roaring fire still going in the morning, but I do need enough coals left to easily restart the fire after 10 hours. For any of the top venting stoves I'll need to cut in a new wall thimble above the brick. Doable, but not desirable.

Most of my firewood is cut 18-22 inches, I don't have much seasoned firewood under 18 inches. Certainly I can cut more ash, mulberry, and elm to whatever length, but that's not useful for this year. It doesn't seem as if there are any modern stoves that can take 22 wood that will fit in my space.

I took a lot of pictures so I can easily post what ever anyone wants to see. The main question is what stove can I fit on that pad without extensive remodeling. and that will have enough coals to restart with splits after 10 hours.

 

[begreen]

The two issues I see here are clearances and the low thimble height. The brick pad can easily be extended to whatever depth is needed by just cutting back some carpet and setting some more brick in a mortar bed. The low thimble height locks you into something that will fit unless the plan is to brick up the current thimble and put in a new one higher up and then top vent the stove with an elbow.

Regardless of choice, the new stove is going to have clearance requirements. If there is drywall and studs behind the brick wall then the drywall is the nearest combustible. According to NFPA, the brick wall only gets a clearance down 50% of 36" or 18" clearance. Unless Woodstock or another stove maker says it's permissible to take a 50% clearance reduction, the current brick wall does not qualify for a clearance reduction which means the distance from the back of the stove to the drywall will be determined by the stove's clearance requirements.

 

[Coyoterun]

Thanks for the reply. So I need to measure from the drywall, the brick doesn't count as protection unless specifically allowed by the manufacturer. That was the most important information I needed. If I understand, the Absolute Steel with heat shields requires 8.5" rear clearance. If I have 4.5 inches of free air between the heat shield and the brick that will meet specs, correct? (brick is 4 inches thick).
I thought the thimble would work as is for the Absolute. Manual says rear flue height to center is 28.25 inches. I measured this opening as 28 inches to center and I could be off by 1/4 inch. If not I can ask Wood stock about grinding a bit on the legs.
A top vent stove would require a new thimble and elbows. Not too much of a problem, but if it's not necessary I'd rather not bother.
Thanks again for your time.

 

[Rearscreen]

Figure out a way to get that Absolute in there. That's what you want. Put a metal stand off plate on the vertical brick if necessary to kill the radiant heat. Drill .25" holes in the pad to drop the stove to fit the flue or shave the legs. Don't compromise with the stove choice. Think about an OAK. Amazing stove, make it happen.

 

[begreen]

For a basement install you might also want to look at the Ideal Steel if there is a good opportunity to get the heat upstairs. The Ideal Steel has adjustable legs to change the outlet height.

 

[Rearscreen]

YES! Begreen is Absolute -ly right!

 

[Coyoterun]

The Ideal is front loading only, so it's pretty much out. I really don't want to have to remove all the carpeting in front.
The Absolute is the best option if the clearances work out. It does look like they measure from the front of the brick, even with a heat shield. So then that's 8.5" of air. I wouldn't mind mounting a steel plate on the brick, but would they allow any reduction for that? The manual doesn't seem to, and I can't see an insurance company signing off on anything not explicitly approved by the manufacturer. Guess I'd just have to extend the brick pad out into the room and walk around it. Not what I wanted to do but that does appear to be the only option. Anything with smaller clearances isn't going to have much for coals left in the morning.

 

[begreen]

The brick wall will offer protection. It just can't be used for clearance reduction unless Woodstock oks it for a specific clearance. Sounds like the AS will work well for your plans.

 

[webby3650]

Why not trim some carpet back and lay a row of cerimac tile in front. It's not a toe stubber, and is a whole lot easier to lay than bricks.

 

[kennyp2339]

What's behind the brick wall (thimble side) If its a large masonry chimney then simply remove the furring strips and paneling and expose the brick.
If not then install a piece of metal (sheet) on 1" spacers leaving a 1" gap at the bottom edge and at the top edge for a heat shield.
If this is a masonry chimney i'd scrap the existing thimble and break out a new one higher up for a better draft, better pitch to drain any creosote back into the stove.'
As far as the base brick is concerned, i'm assuming since this is a basement install the brick is directly laying on a concrete pad and the carpeting is simply resting on the same poured floor, so that could be removed easily and either tile laid down at the old carpet height or more brick installed to bring the front of the hearth level with the existing.
All in all not a tough project, and you all ready know ahead of time that a new liner will be needed to properly fit the new stove anyway (slam dunk for us here on hearth)

 

[Coyoterun]

Before I go farther, just for your amusement, the insurance company came out this fall, inspected the existing setup, and approved it for use as is. Bear that in mind as you look at the pictures.

Here's the backside of the existing thimble. I believe that replacing the black pipe with double wall stove pipe will meet proper clearance. There is another opening in the chimney behind the wall. (Currently it's mortared over) That opening is directly behind the red circle so I could install a new thimble there. That is what I'd have to do with any top vent stove and it does have the advantage that I would only need a 30 foot flex liner. The existing thimble, being lower down, might require buying a 35 foot liner. (only would use 32 feet at most, would need to remeasure more exactly)

Is there any particular advantage to going top vent and installing a new thimble at the red circle? I'd prefer to keep the stove pipe out of sight if it doesn't make a lot of difference.

 

[kennyp2339]

Anyway you cant get rid of that wall and expose the chimney? That's a lot of 90's for the smoke to travel around, I count (3) of them

 

[Coyoterun]

You count correctly, it is a lot of 90's. I'm not keen on removing the wall. The propane furnace and electric water heater are behind it on either side of the chimney. Even with a top vent stove I would have three elbows, but one would be an adjustable 90 turned down to 60 or so.

 

[webby3650]

Your insurance guy didn't know what the heck he was looking at. I've seen it first hand several times, they measure and take pictures and say it's all good. Then when you have a claim, a professional inspector comes to look and denies the claim.

That is not a safe install. The Connector pipe is not allowed to pass through the wall. It must be chimney from the wall penetration to daylight. If you want to use that chimney, I don't see any way to leave that wall in place.

 

[begreen]

webby is totally correct. This is an unsafe installation. Single wall pipe clearance is 18". Double wall stove pipe would only make it marginally safer, but is not code passing thru a wall. A better approach may be to brick up the two lower openings and then use a proper insulated thimble to connect to the chimney higher up.

 

[Coyoterun]

Yeah, I know the current install is not code, but even a new thimble wouldn't be code? If I put a properly insulated thimble at the red circle in the fourth picture above, then it would mount directly to the chimney. That's not code? Direct connection from the stove pipe to the T at the end of the chimney liner? I could put a ceiling box there that would stick out 6 inches past the wall if that would make a difference.

 

[Coyoterun]

Your insurance guy didn't know what the heck he was looking at. I've seen it first hand several times, they measure and take pictures and say it's all good. Then when you have a claim, a professional inspector comes to look and denies the claim.

That's not cool! I thought that if they looked at it and signed off on using it they would cover it!

 

[begreen]

Yeah, I know the current install is not code, but even a new thimble wouldn't be code? If I put a properly insulated thimble at the red circle in the fourth picture above, then it would mount directly to the chimney. That's not code? Direct connection from the stove pipe to the T at the end of the chimney liner? I could put a ceiling box there that would stick out 6 inches past the wall if that would make a difference.

Yes, that is what I suggest - a proper, insulated wall thimble at the upper red circle area. That will also allow you to consider top vented wood stoves.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/chimney-passing-a-chimney-through-the-wall.147754/

(broken link removed to http://www.woodstovepro.com/store/Chimney-Pipe-Venting-Pipe/Wood-All-Fuel-Piping/6-inch/Selkirk-DSP-Double-Wall-Pipe/Selkirk-6-DSP-Insulated-Wall-Thimble-256463-DSP6IWT-p20365.html)

 

[Coyoterun]

Ok, I had thought that a new thimble would meet code. But then, I also thought that the insurance company would cover something they had inspected.

A new thimble is probably the way I'll end up going. I'll save a couple bucks on the shorter liner that way too.

 

[JA600L]

I have an Ideal Steel and my friend bought a plain Absolute Steel. I honestly like the design and mechanisms on the Absolute better. It has less moving parts. For my basement install though I'd take the Ideal Steel any day. That larger firebox really comes in handy. Both stoves will function very similar. However, the Ideal Steel is noticeably larger in overall size and capacity.

 

[Rearscreen]

I have an Ideal Steel and my friend bought a plain Absolute Steel. I honestly like the design and mechanisms on the Absolute better. It has less moving parts. For my basement install though I'd take the Ideal Steel any day. That larger firebox really comes in handy. Both stoves will function very similar. However, the Ideal Steel is noticeably larger in overall size and capacity.

When I was at one of the Woodstock picnics, I spoke with the designer of the Ideal but he did not design the Absolute. So, they were designed by different people. Knowing this company, naturally they want to improve in terms of efficiency and simplicity. I do agree with the big box for basement, sadly some of the cooking features may be lost if it's not near a kitchen.