I am going to buy a woodburner very soon so I started pricing the. I can get an EKO 25 for 5080 dollars, an Eko 40 for 5560 dollars. I got a quote for a Woodgun 100 and an Econoburn 100 for 7800 dollars. All prices include delivery, the Econoburn and Woodgun say I need to pay state tax. I don't know why there is such a price difference. I have heard real good things about all of them. Is there a reason the Woodgun and Econoburn are so much more money? Are they that much better that they are worth more? So far I think I'm going with on of the EKO burners. Thanks in advance.
what woodburner would you get?
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I've got an EKO. I bought if for the same reason...... Cheapest... It also, IMHO has the cleanest track record of any of the downdraft gasifiers.. Tarms can tend to be picky and DO NOT idle well, and econoburn has had some growing pains...... Wood gun seems pretty solid though.
To be fair, an EKO will be cheaper than an American boiler because American labor is so expensive (read, inflated) compared to the Czech Republic where EKO's are built.....
To be fair, an EKO will be cheaper than an American boiler because American labor is so expensive (read, inflated) compared to the Czech Republic where EKO's are built.....
I have nothing negative to say against the EKOs-- but I am very impressed and pleased by my Econoburn's quality of construction and readily available information and support from the manufacturer. Econoburn's thickness of the metal- both boiler and cabinet- and the straightforward, sturdy control systems all just about shout that the product is built to last.
You may want to do some discreet checking around about code issues witha non ASME rated boiler. I've heard some scuttlebutt from some of my boiler inspectors in the field about Wisconsin really beginning to crack down on the non-rated units such as the EKO. One of them told me that Michigan is considering the same type of "search and destroy" policy also......time will tell.
As far as I know, the Econoburn is the only wood boiler that bears the coveted {H} stamp, unless you can still special order a Tarm that way.
As far as I know, the Econoburn is the only wood boiler that bears the coveted {H} stamp, unless you can still special order a Tarm that way.
Obviously I'd pick the EKO. I'm extremely pleased with mine. If I had to do it all over again I might go with an EKO 60 instead of the 40. I'd love to be able to charge my 1000 gallons of storage just a little quicker than I do right now with the 40. But you can't have everything, right???
The controls setup on the EKO is one of the big things that helped make the decision to me. Seems the EKO controls idling a little better and also has more user configurable settings on it than some of the other boilers...
The controls setup on the EKO is one of the big things that helped make the decision to me. Seems the EKO controls idling a little better and also has more user configurable settings on it than some of the other boilers...
My two cents:
As much as we all need to support the American Manufacturers I think it's hard to deny the quality/efficiency per dollar of the Orlan (EKO, PAXO,Orlan) which is why I'm about to get a 60. The major disadvantage I see is that if you have a leak in the unit at 10 years old, you can't (feasibly) ship it to the Manufacturer for repair. I know there is a pro-rated warranty but it doesn't offer much past the first five years.
In my opinion the 304 Stainless Wood Gun is the ultimate in longevity, unfortunately you can buy two EKO's for the price of a comparable Wood Gun. 15 years from now, the technology could improve significanly. Wood Gun & Tarm do have the ability to do dual fuel which is a great benefit if you need to replace an old oil/gas boiler.
The Econoburn and Tarm are fine units but unfortunately their price isn't competitive with the Orlan, hopefully this will change in the future.
As much as we all need to support the American Manufacturers I think it's hard to deny the quality/efficiency per dollar of the Orlan (EKO, PAXO,Orlan) which is why I'm about to get a 60. The major disadvantage I see is that if you have a leak in the unit at 10 years old, you can't (feasibly) ship it to the Manufacturer for repair. I know there is a pro-rated warranty but it doesn't offer much past the first five years.
In my opinion the 304 Stainless Wood Gun is the ultimate in longevity, unfortunately you can buy two EKO's for the price of a comparable Wood Gun. 15 years from now, the technology could improve significanly. Wood Gun & Tarm do have the ability to do dual fuel which is a great benefit if you need to replace an old oil/gas boiler.
The Econoburn and Tarm are fine units but unfortunately their price isn't competitive with the Orlan, hopefully this will change in the future.
First- just to make clear- I have no financial connection to Econoburn.
Along with being overall superbly well designed and constructed in a way that resembles commercial/ industrial/ military rather than residential equipment, the Econoburn's entire system of "parts" other than the boiler vessel and outer cabinet, are standard-item commercial/ industrial components.
As a result, even if Econoburn were to exit the business (which I have no reason to expect)(their parent, Dunkirk Boiler, is a very well established company), parts such as the PLC controller, relays, blower, etc., should be available- most likely for several decades. Since these parts are commercial/ industrial type components to begin with, there should be good reason to hope that they last a long time in any event. Plus, not only should they remain available, they should be available at non-premium prices (I've had too many experiences, too, with appliances, where the main circuit board had a failure- and would have had to be replaced at a very spendy cost- even though the major parts and systems of the appliance still seemingly had plenty of useful life).
This was one of several factors in my decision to go with the Econoburn. I have had too many other experiences with products that seemed excellent at the time of purchase, but which were rendered un-usable (or financially ridiculous to repair) -- long before what should have been their useful life -- by the failure of one relatively minor part or system- which, by that time, had become unavailable for replacement.
Also, whenever I called Econoburn with questions during my planning and install, they were very helpful and glad to help. One time, the Vice President even got on the phone with me when the tech. person at the time was on the road and un-reachable- and the V.P. really knew the product/ technical aspects, and cheerfully took the time to speak with me.
An investment as substantial as a wood gasification boiler should have a life measured in multiple decades, and for me at least, I found it very welcome to be able to have high confidence that parts and sub-systems should be supported by available parts for a very long time.
Note- I am not "dis-ing" EKO, Tarm/ Bioheat, WoodGun, Garn, etc.-- each have their own variation of advantages and trade-offs. They all seem like good products in their own way for particular purchasers' needs and preferences. I'm just suggesting that 'sticker price' should not be the only driving factor (the Garn is another excellent example of this- price of the unit may seem high, but, if you have the right place to put it, by the time you account for the fact that it has its own large thermal storage, and needs little in the way of controls/ piping/ circulators when compared to other wood boilers, it may well cost less, on a whole-system-basis, than units that look less expensive when considering only the boiler.
Along with being overall superbly well designed and constructed in a way that resembles commercial/ industrial/ military rather than residential equipment, the Econoburn's entire system of "parts" other than the boiler vessel and outer cabinet, are standard-item commercial/ industrial components.
As a result, even if Econoburn were to exit the business (which I have no reason to expect)(their parent, Dunkirk Boiler, is a very well established company), parts such as the PLC controller, relays, blower, etc., should be available- most likely for several decades. Since these parts are commercial/ industrial type components to begin with, there should be good reason to hope that they last a long time in any event. Plus, not only should they remain available, they should be available at non-premium prices (I've had too many experiences, too, with appliances, where the main circuit board had a failure- and would have had to be replaced at a very spendy cost- even though the major parts and systems of the appliance still seemingly had plenty of useful life).
This was one of several factors in my decision to go with the Econoburn. I have had too many other experiences with products that seemed excellent at the time of purchase, but which were rendered un-usable (or financially ridiculous to repair) -- long before what should have been their useful life -- by the failure of one relatively minor part or system- which, by that time, had become unavailable for replacement.
Also, whenever I called Econoburn with questions during my planning and install, they were very helpful and glad to help. One time, the Vice President even got on the phone with me when the tech. person at the time was on the road and un-reachable- and the V.P. really knew the product/ technical aspects, and cheerfully took the time to speak with me.
An investment as substantial as a wood gasification boiler should have a life measured in multiple decades, and for me at least, I found it very welcome to be able to have high confidence that parts and sub-systems should be supported by available parts for a very long time.
Note- I am not "dis-ing" EKO, Tarm/ Bioheat, WoodGun, Garn, etc.-- each have their own variation of advantages and trade-offs. They all seem like good products in their own way for particular purchasers' needs and preferences. I'm just suggesting that 'sticker price' should not be the only driving factor (the Garn is another excellent example of this- price of the unit may seem high, but, if you have the right place to put it, by the time you account for the fact that it has its own large thermal storage, and needs little in the way of controls/ piping/ circulators when compared to other wood boilers, it may well cost less, on a whole-system-basis, than units that look less expensive when considering only the boiler.
My wife insisted we maintain oil as back up heat. If we had 2 flues available, the Econoburn along with my existing old oil boiler would have been my choice.
IHOOKEm,
You should have been quoted $6995.00 for an EBW-100, with a Factory Direct Rebate of $500 that makes it $6495 with a Federal Tax Credit of $1500 that puts it at $4995 after all said and done.
You should have been quoted $6995.00 for an EBW-100, with a Factory Direct Rebate of $500 that makes it $6495 with a Federal Tax Credit of $1500 that puts it at $4995 after all said and done.
Thanks Altheating, they never told me about a 500 dollar rebate. That changes things around a little. The EKO gets the 1500 dollar rebate as well as the Woodgun. I think the woodgun is much like the Econoburn. I wanted the Woodgun because I have a dealer that installs them and can service them and he is 25 mi. from my home. I called Woodgun and left two messages and they never called back so I wonder what answer I will get if I need warranty work. Also, does anyone hear of anything that is actually BAD about the EKO? So far it's still the Eko but I will call Econoburn and ask about the rebate, thanks.
Note that within the last couple of months we appear to have had two posters reporting leaks in fairly new EKO units - I don't know what resolution was reached on either, or if there has been one yet. There have also been some folks that have had problems with the door gasket on their EKO's, though it appears at least some of the problem was due to creosote buildup while running w/o storage (and idling as a result) EKO has also supposedly come up w/ a new gasket material that is claimed to solve the problem.
Not saying this shows an issue w/ EKO in general, but it does cause me some doubts about their QA...
I'm also a bit concerned about the apparent conflict between some of the people importing EKO - I don't know just what is going on, other than that there are apparently several conflicting stories about what is happening, and it is something that we DON'T want to discuss here because of the potential for resulting headaches over it, but I'd be concerned about purchasing a product when I'm not sure who the "official" importer really is... (what happens if I guess wrong and have a problem???)
Flip side, in one of the EKO leak threads it was mentioned by one of our industry members that he'd had a customer that had a leak in an Econoburn. The resolution on that one was reportedly that Econoburn replaced the boiler so they could bring the leaker back to the factory for examination (and presumably corrective manufacturing process action?)
I LIKE the EKO units, but there are some issues relating to them that concern me. I also think that while there is nothing wrong with the EKO, it is built to a price point, and that somewhat shows. When I saw both the EKO and the Econoburn up at the Woodsmans show in ME earlier this year, the Econoburn felt a bit more substantial in terms of things like the way the doors were built, etc...
I don't want to be seen as taking sides on this issue - both units are ones that I would consider purchasing for whatever that is worth.
On the ASME question, Bioheat says that they do have a few of the old, non-gasifier ASME Tarm units in their warehouse, but they aren't really for sale. There are NO current production ASME Euroboilers, and I would suspect that there won't be, as it isn't practical for a Eurobuilder to try to meet some of the ASME requirements, such as having ASME inspectors there to watch the build and test processes.
Woodgun and Econoburn DO have ASME versions of their boilers available, but their stock models are NOT ASME "H" stamped, and both companies charge a hefty premium for the ASME models.
Gooserider
Not saying this shows an issue w/ EKO in general, but it does cause me some doubts about their QA...
I'm also a bit concerned about the apparent conflict between some of the people importing EKO - I don't know just what is going on, other than that there are apparently several conflicting stories about what is happening, and it is something that we DON'T want to discuss here because of the potential for resulting headaches over it, but I'd be concerned about purchasing a product when I'm not sure who the "official" importer really is... (what happens if I guess wrong and have a problem???)
Flip side, in one of the EKO leak threads it was mentioned by one of our industry members that he'd had a customer that had a leak in an Econoburn. The resolution on that one was reportedly that Econoburn replaced the boiler so they could bring the leaker back to the factory for examination (and presumably corrective manufacturing process action?)
I LIKE the EKO units, but there are some issues relating to them that concern me. I also think that while there is nothing wrong with the EKO, it is built to a price point, and that somewhat shows. When I saw both the EKO and the Econoburn up at the Woodsmans show in ME earlier this year, the Econoburn felt a bit more substantial in terms of things like the way the doors were built, etc...
I don't want to be seen as taking sides on this issue - both units are ones that I would consider purchasing for whatever that is worth.
On the ASME question, Bioheat says that they do have a few of the old, non-gasifier ASME Tarm units in their warehouse, but they aren't really for sale. There are NO current production ASME Euroboilers, and I would suspect that there won't be, as it isn't practical for a Eurobuilder to try to meet some of the ASME requirements, such as having ASME inspectors there to watch the build and test processes.
Woodgun and Econoburn DO have ASME versions of their boilers available, but their stock models are NOT ASME "H" stamped, and both companies charge a hefty premium for the ASME models.
Gooserider
As I understand it, Econoburn makes only ASME boilers. They don't sell them either way. That being said they may have some older stock that is not so listed but all current production is ASME and there is no upcharge for it.
ihookem said:
Are you referring to the tax rebate for the $1500 on the EKO? If so, you're not going to get it. The EKO does not qualify for any of the government rebates/refunds for alternative heating....
ihookem said:
I too had problems with them(AHS) calling me back. Was told they were having tech problems with voice lines, etc. PM me and I'll give you Patrick's direct extension and cel# if you are interested. Getting them on the phone with those numbers was easier and once I got through they were willing to spend as much time as needed with me.
Just a quick clarification. Econoburn does make both ASME and Non-ASME boilers. Currently the ASME "Code Red" boilers are $1000 more than the standard non-ASME model which are certified for safety by UL (Underwriters Laboratories) and the
CSA (Canadian Standards Association) under the following designations:
1. UL 391-06 test standard for Solid Fuel and Combination Fuel Central & Supplementary Furnaces
2. UL 726.06 test standard for Oil-Fired Boiler Assemblies
3. CSA B366.1-M91 test standard for Solid Fuel Fired Central Heating Appliances
As well Econoburn™ boilers are recognized by Intertek an independant organization that specializes in electrical product safety testing. The WHI mark on Econoburn™ boiler's demonstrates compliance to their stringent safety and performance standards in the US and Canada.
Both ASME and Non-ASME boilers EBW-100's, EBW150's and EBW-200's qualify for the factory direct rebates of $500, $700 and $1000 respectfully. Offer good until August 31st. The federal tax credit is good through 2010. Hope this clarifies things a bit.
CSA (Canadian Standards Association) under the following designations:
1. UL 391-06 test standard for Solid Fuel and Combination Fuel Central & Supplementary Furnaces
2. UL 726.06 test standard for Oil-Fired Boiler Assemblies
3. CSA B366.1-M91 test standard for Solid Fuel Fired Central Heating Appliances
As well Econoburn™ boilers are recognized by Intertek an independant organization that specializes in electrical product safety testing. The WHI mark on Econoburn™ boiler's demonstrates compliance to their stringent safety and performance standards in the US and Canada.
Both ASME and Non-ASME boilers EBW-100's, EBW150's and EBW-200's qualify for the factory direct rebates of $500, $700 and $1000 respectfully. Offer good until August 31st. The federal tax credit is good through 2010. Hope this clarifies things a bit.
stee6043 said:
Are you sure? I was told that they have a Manufacturer's Certificate stating that they qualify. AHONA has it on their website for the PAXO which mechanically is an EKO.
I talked to and EKO dealer that advertises on this sight and he said they got their certification last week. I think it was for the 1,500 dollar tax break. I'm not sure though. And what is ASME? Some are and some are not. If the EKO doesn't get the 1,500 dollar rebate then I will go with on of the others.
ihookem said:
Roger Wilco. My info may be out of date if they just got their paperwork last week. That's great news for potential EKO buyers. Buy ONE! You won't be dissapointed....but buy the fancy new door gasket Medman has posted while you're at it. Just from the looks it appears to be a winner....
Hydronics said:
Is this the certificate you are referring to? All that is required is one line on a letterhead saying "you are eligible"?
(broken link removed to http://www.ahona.com/taxcredit/federaltaxcredit_homeowners.pdf)
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