When to buy pellet stoves (in Boston MA), cost of install etc.

[TheOscarGuy]

Hello,

I have been reading a lot on these forums about pellet stoves. With the very high fuel costs we currently have to heat our house, we have decided to take the plunge and buy a pellet stove. This will be an additional heating source to reduce the amount of oil we have to buy to heat, not a primary/only source.

I have shortlisted Harman Accentra and Quadfire Mt Vernon as the stove we would like to get. I am hoping to get some words of wisdom from members here, and folks specifically from our part of the country, in terms of helping us with the purchase and install.

1. We are in Boston, MA. We have been getting quotes of ~4K for the Accentra and 4.5K for the quadfire (there are some variations depending on what trim/color you choose). Are the prices set in stone, or will I get better prices when its spring/summer, when no one is buying these stoves? Is there any sense in waiting, strictly due to price you pay for the stoves? I am thinking of getting it locally from a dealer and having them installed, is there any other source you would recommend that would sell and install stoves for us (non-local, perhaps online vendor)? We like both of them and will be happy with either.

2. This will be in insert. We are getting quotes of ~$450-550 for chimney liner/parts and $700 for labor for install. Is that a fair price, or there are cheaper prices elsewhere? We looked at a dealer in Natick and another one in Shrewsbury Mass and the costs are generally constant for both stove and installation. Does it make sense to travel a bit more?

3. Wooden Pellets quotes we are getting are generally in 300s. Is that fair, or are we looking at wrong places? Again, we asked these two dealers for pellet cost -- we haven't looked into other vendors yet.

4. Any specifics, things to watch out for, while buying the stove -- that you have encountered?

Much appreciate the help

 

[digitys]

Those costs for the chimney liner and labor seem roughly right. I paid about 1000 up here in NH. 4k is about right for a new accentra. I know a dealer up here in Chichester NH had one on his floor for 3600 the other day and that was brand new.

Pellets is something you will need to do your research on here and try out on your own. Some people enjoy burning the 220-250$ tons from the big box stores and others do not. I began to make the conversion to only burning softwood pellets recently as I find there to be less maintenance with the stove daily, still doing my normal once a week cleaning though! Those pellets are right around 300 a ton.

Your prices seem right inline though!

 

[TimfromMA]

I live about 1/2hour west of Boston and I bought my stove at Royal Fireside in Mendon. I bought a St Croix from them but they sell other brands too. Their also a very good pellet dealer. I buy pellets there too. I highly recommend them.

 

[Husky]

I started this same endeavor last year at about this same time. I narrowed it down to the same two stoves you did. Ended up going with the Accentra. The price you are getting is about the same as I ended up paying. I ended up purchasing in the summer and watched prices to see if they ever went on sale. Ended up getting a little off by buying in early July (150 form dealer and 100 rebate). My total with stove, liner and labor was around $6000.

I use my stove just like you seem to be wanting too, supplemental with my furnace. Heating 2600 sq ft. two story. Dealer told me I would probably use 3-4 ton for the season, but I will be more like 5 ton. Good luck with decision. You won't be disappointed if you go with the Harman.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

I started this same endeavor last year at about this same time. I narrowed it down to the same two stoves you did. Ended up going with the Accentra. The price you are getting is about the same as I ended up paying. I ended up purchasing in the summer and watched prices to see if they ever went on sale. Ended up getting a little off by buying in early July (150 form dealer and 100 rebate). My total with stove, liner and labor was around $6000.

I use my stove just like you seem to be wanting too, supplemental with my furnace. Heating 2600 sq ft. two story. Dealer told me I would probably use 3-4 ton for the season, but I will be more like 5 ton. Good luck with decision. You won't be disappointed if you go with the Harman.

Its interesting that you said you will take ~5ton. I was told by the dealer I should be buying 2 tons. Our house is a 4000 sq ft. colonial, including finished basement square footage. I am only looking to heat the living room/kitchen/dining room/fomal living room area all of which are pretty open to each other. Any additional heat I get upstairs in bedrooms is a bonus, but I am not counting on it.

We have already spent ~$2400 in oil since December and this winter is no where near done. Any help to us in reducing costs will be good and I am getting the stove precisely for that.

 

[TimfromMA]

Its interesting that you said you will take ~5ton. I was told by the dealer I should be buying 2 tons. Our house is a 4000 sq ft. colonial, including finished basement square footage. I am only looking to heat the living room/kitchen/dining room/fomal living room area all of which are pretty open to each other. Any additional heat I get upstairs in bedrooms is a bonus, but I am not counting on it.

We have already spent ~$2400 in oil since December and this winter is no where near done. Any help to us in reducing costs will be good and I am getting the stove precisely for that.

You are going to find that with heating oil at it's current price, pellets and oil are pretty close to even price wise. I was going to buy a second stove for my downstairs but I've put that on hold since it doesn't make alot of financial sense right now.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

You are going to find that with heating oil at it's current price, pellets and oil are pretty close to even price wise. I was going to buy a second stove for my downstairs but I've put that on hold since it doesn't make alot of financial sense right now.

Does that mean pellet prices have jumped in recent days, or oil prices are lower?
I am guessing oil has no where to go but up -- so even if it does not give expected savings immediately, I think it eventually will.

 

[TimfromMA]

Its interesting that you said you will take ~5ton. I was told by the dealer I should be buying 2 tons. Our house is a 4000 sq ft. colonial, including finished basement square footage. I am only looking to heat the living room/kitchen/dining room/fomal living room area all of which are pretty open to each other. Any additional heat I get upstairs in bedrooms is a bonus, but I am not counting on it.

We have already spent ~$2400 in oil since December and this winter is no where near done. Any help to us in reducing costs will be good and I am getting the stove precisely for that.

If you used THAT much oil in the past 2 months, you really should should consider making your house more energy efficient. Add insulation, weatherstrip your doors, replace old leaky windows etc etc.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

If you used THAT much oil in the past 2 months, you really should should consider making your house more energy efficient. Add insulation, weatherstrip your doors, replace old leaky windows etc etc.

This is a relatively new house (90s) and the windows look new. We recently bought it so we are still getting to know it. There are few areas for improvement, and we are having energy audit done next month to determine where we are losing heat and what can be done about it.

 

[TimfromMA]

Does that mean pellet prices have jumped in recent days, or oil prices are lower?
I am guessing oil has no where to go but up -- so even if it does not give expected savings immediately, I think it eventually will.

It's mostly due to the lower oil prices. There are online calculators that can compare the cost of heating with oil vs pellets. Pellets still win but not by a huge margin.

 

[redbill]

that's a big house, that oil bill seems normal. The stove will help for sure.

I got an insert a couple summers ago, and saved a few hundred buying in the summer by taking the floor unit.

I'm going to replace my free-standing unit this spring/summer too. I'll probably start looking in April when they've got more time to dedicate to me. Also looking at Harman, was going to check out Pellets 'R Us in Acton and Stove Keepers in Brookline, NH.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

that's a big house, that oil bill seems normal. The stove will help for sure.

I got an insert a couple summers ago, and saved a few hundred buying in the summer by taking the floor unit.

I'm going to replace my free-standing unit this spring/summer too. I'll probably start looking in April when they've got more time to dedicate to me. Also looking at Harman, was going to check out Pellets 'R Us in Acton and Stove Keepers in Brookline, NH.

Thanks I will check them out. I thought NH dealers were out of question for me as they will refuse to deal with someone 1 hr out from their store.
We are thinking we will probably get two of them -- one new one Harman/quadfire, and another used one at a bargain price to heat either basement or bedrooms. Don't know for sure where to keep the second unit though -- we do spend sometime in basement, but usually are in either living room when home or bedroom (sleeping!) at night. Basement gets used as a game room and entertaining.

Each of the bedrooms are closed off to one another -- its not an open space as main living room/floor. So I am unsure if there is any benefit to adding one in one of the bedrooms.

 

[TimfromMA]

So I am unsure if there is any benefit to adding one in one of the bedrooms.

You can't anyways. It's a code violation to put a pellet stove in a bedroom.

 

[Pellet-King]

Pellet stove will hardly make a dent in heating bill's, that's alot of space to heat my friend, Pellet stoves are just a space heater, one room can be hot, other's cold and also if the T-Stat is in the same room as your stove rest of your house will be colder, invest in going to NG or look into getting a new Adams Maunfacturing 98% efficiency Oil furnace, they can be had rather cheaply on Ebay around $2k and it will increase the value of your home, remember pellet stoves are alot of work maintaining loading and cleaning..........I wouldn't do it

 

[Husky]

Its interesting that you said you will take ~5ton. I was told by the dealer I should be buying 2 tons. Our house is a 4000 sq ft. colonial, including finished basement square footage. I am only looking to heat the living room/kitchen/dining room/fomal living room area all of which are pretty open to each other. Any additional heat I get upstairs in bedrooms is a bonus, but I am not counting on it.

We have already spent ~$2400 in oil since December and this winter is no where near done. Any help to us in reducing costs will be good and I am getting the stove precisely for that.

I have a NG furnace, which is very economical, but I have always burned wood. Went to a pellet stove because less labor and storage of 3 years of wood before you burn. We burn to keep are family room at a nice 74-75 degrees. I installed a set back thermostat so the stove doesn't run at night when we are asleep and during the day when we're at work. During the weekends I run it all day and shut it down when we sleep. I estimated that we are running 50 hours during the week and 32 hours on the weekend. Now with that being said this Feb. has been brutally cold and this month we have burned 24/7 for the past 2 weeks. There is definitely a learning curve to figure out on how to burn most efficiently. I have figured out that if you let the house cool down to 60 it is much easier to let the furnace bring the temp back up and use the pellet stove to maintain your desired heat . If you try to bring up heat with stove you will burn through a lot of pellets and it will take quite a while. The pellet stove seems to do a real good job at maintaining the existing heat in the house but will struggle to bring a cold house up to desired temperature. I wasted a lot of pellets before figuring this out.

Another thing I would recommend is that you look into purchasing an OAK (outside air kit). My dealer didn't even discuss this with me so I didn't even think of installing one. My house was built in 1984 and is pretty well insulated but we have noticed that we get a cold draft in living room where stove is installed which make room feel cold, even though air temp is 75. Your pellet stove needs combustion air to work and will pull it from inside house. The air you burn will be replaced with outside air from any leaks in house it can pull from, and you will have leaks you never thought you had. I will be installing An OAK for next season.

With all this being said, it depends on how warm you like your living area. Our upstairs, which has an open stair way with cathedral ceiling gets some of the extra heat that migrate through the house. When we our home on weekends the upstairs will maintain 67 with out furnace working.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

I have a NG furnace, which is very economical, but I have always burned wood. Went to a pellet stove because less labor and storage of 3 years of wood before you burn. We burn to keep are family room at a nice 74-75 degrees. I installed a set back thermostat so the stove doesn't run at night when we are asleep and during the day when we're at work. During the weekends I run it all day and shut it down when we sleep. I estimated that we are running 50 hours during the week and 32 hours on the weekend. Now with that being said this Feb. has been brutally cold and this month we have burned 24/7 for the past 2 weeks. There is definitely a learning curve to figure out on how to burn most efficiently. I have figured out that if you let the house cool down to 60 it is much easier to let the furnace bring the temp back up and use the pellet stove to maintain your desired heat . If you try to bring up heat with stove you will burn through a lot of pellets and it will take quite a while. The pellet stove seems to do a real good job at maintaining the existing heat in the house but will struggle to bring a cold house up to desired temperature. I wasted a lot of pellets before figuring this out.

Another thing I would recommend is that you look into purchasing an OAK (outside air kit). My dealer didn't even discuss this with me so I didn't even think of installing one. My house was built in 1984 and is pretty well insulated but we have noticed that we get a cold draft in living room where stove is installed which make room feel cold, even though air temp is 75. Your pellet stove needs combustion air to work and will pull it from inside house. The air you burn will be replaced with outside air from any leaks in house it can pull from, and you will have leaks you never thought you had. I will be installing An OAK for next season.

With all this being said, it depends on how warm you like your living area. Our upstairs, which has an open stair way with cathedral ceiling gets some of the extra heat that migrate through the house. When we our home on weekends the upstairs will maintain 67 with out furnace working.

Are you talking about getting the air from outside so heat up, rather than taking the air from inside the house?
I asked that too to one dealer, and he mentioned that its much more efficient to heat up hot air than cold air. It did not seem logical to me, since I know furnaces do bring in air from outside to heat rather than take up the already heated air.

I will look into it.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

Pellet stove will hardly make a dent in heating bill's, that's alot of space to heat my friend, Pellet stoves are just a space heater, one room can be hot, other's cold and also if the T-Stat is in the same room as your stove rest of your house will be colder, invest in going to NG or look into getting a new Adams Maunfacturing 98% efficiency Oil furnace, they can be had rather cheaply on Ebay around $2k and it will increase the value of your home, remember pellet stoves are alot of work maintaining loading and cleaning..........I wouldn't do it

From what we have read on this forum, and talking to folks who own pellet stoves, we figured we will save on heating with stove as secondary source. We do have an open floor plan and that should help in transferring heat from where pellet stove will be installed to other parts of the house on that floor.

Regarding oil furnaces -- we do have a working one, I don't want to replace it if its not broken. My past experiences with high efficiency (gas) furnace upgrade has left me weary of such upgrades. Its an old furnace, but has been working all this while. I don't see a reason to change it as I am not entirely convinced I will recoup the costs, and not have additional headaches dealing with energy efficient, but more complicated furnaces.

Is that generally what others feel as well? I have read countless threads that claim their heating bills have reduced with pellet stove addition.

 

[TimfromMA]

When I bought my stove, you could buy a very respectable pellet for $200 per ton and oil was up near $4 per gallon. Based on those prices, pellets cut my heating bill in half. Today, those same respectable pellets go for $350 per ton and oil hovers around $2.50 per gallon.

 

[Peterfield]

If you are dead set on trying a pellet stove, you can take advantage of short-term thinking, which is quite common with people that act like sheep chasing their tails on this stuff. I would anticipate many people getting rid of their pellet stoves this spring and summer so you could score a good deal on a stove. Pellet prices are up and regionally scarce and oil prices are way down. Generally folks are lazy so more will heat with oil or NG next year if they haven't switched already. Now, combine this with thinking long-term, oil will go up eventually as soon as the king of Saudi Arabia gets a cold, or Venezuela has a coup, or there is a refinery fire or a refinery is taken down for maintenance, or Kim Kardashian finds religion or Kanye West smiles. It's smart to have a backup source for heat and if you have a little patience you should save some money, making the payback much shorter for your pellet stove investment.

 

[moey]

Your usage seems high for that square footage. You may want to have a energy audit done to access your insulation levels and air leakage. Throwing more BTU's at your house may not save any or much money.

 

[chken]

$2400 in oil is how many gallons? I paid $2.07 a gallon this winter, but I know many who paid on a plan paid $3. I'm going to guesstimate around $3, or 800 gallons, for about 2/3rds the way thru heating season? So, maybe 1200 gallons in a full season, or 1050 gallons in a normal winter. That's above average, but your house is also larger than average.

What I did last year is to try and calculate my breakeven on the stove purchase in tons of pellets. Last year I could save $200 for every ton burned. This year, I started off the season, I could save $100 per ton burned, but now it's a wash. I paid $239/ton delivered. Oil at $2.07 a gallon is BTU equal to $248 ton of pellets, multiply oil by 120. If I'm being conservative, I should estimate I save $100 a ton of pellets burned. If your stove install costs you $6000, you'd have to burn 60 tons to break even, and your stove shop thinks you'll only burn 2 tons a year, which means 30 years to break even. If you were to burn 5 tons, which seems like a lot, you'd still take 12 years to break even. And, that's using my prices. Your prices aren't as good, as we already know you are being quoted over $300 for a ton of pellets. I didn't change my assumptions because I think you'll pay higher oil as well. If your oil is about $3 a gallon, that's BTU equal to $360 a ton of pellets, and if your tons are in the $300+ range and you add in for delivery, you'll be lucky to save $20 a ton, which means you'd have to burn 300 tons to break even, or more years than your equipment will last.

I dunno, the economics of your situation don't sound promising for a successful install.

 

[Husky]

Are you talking about getting the air from outside so heat up, rather than taking the air from inside the house?
I asked that too to one dealer, and he mentioned that its much more efficient to heat up hot air than cold air. It did not seem logical to me, since I know furnaces do bring in air from outside to heat rather than take up the already heated air.

I will look into it.

This is covered in many post on this forum, do a search. Most people , I have read, think it is a no brainer to have an OAK. I know if it cuts out my cold draft from air being pulled into the house from the outside, I will be warmer and happier. As far as the cold air being less efficient in the burning, this is also debatable.

 

[fmsm]

Call Kirley Masonry in Mansfield. He will discount a stove and do a proper install for a fair price. 508-339-3700.

 

[bogieb]

Hello,

I have shortlisted Harman Accentra and Quadfire Mt Vernon as the stove we would like to get. I am hoping to get some words of wisdom from members here, and folks specifically from our part of the country, in terms of helping us with the purchase and install.

4. Any specifics, things to watch out for, while buying the stove -- that you have encountered?

Much appreciate the help

You might check into a few posts about issues (that link is only to the latest) with the Mt. Vernon that are very worrisome. don't know if it is the same version (AE, E2 whatever), but do know that you probably want to do a little research before making a final decision.

 

[HP52NOVA]

First thing you are doing well is coming here, pre purchase and discuss. Wish I would have done that. I was exactly in your situation last year and just finishing up my first season. There is a learning curve, both on the purchase and research then on the install and then on operating the stove. Each one deserves a large chapter in a book. I have a similar sized home and needs, so I can share some of my experience here:

On what stove - both stoves you noted are top of the line inserts, you can be happy with both. As a Harman owner, I will side with the Harman, but I never owned a quad. We had our share of issues with our Harman, but overall are very happy with our purchase. I like that I can run it 24/7 and the simplicity of its design to maintain. I would not choose the stove based on looks or how nice the flame looks. If you can, go in the store and ask the sales guy or a tech to show you how to take it apart and explain the parts. Then you will know better what you will face to do when it’s in your home and you need to handle it. As minimum, review the vendor maintenance videos and read the install guide well, even if get a pro to install it.

On costs - buying and installing is a high upfront cost - at around 6K you are right around the expected number. However, as pellet fuel is going up and oil went down, it will take some extra time to pay that back, if at all. You also need to factor in your time cleaning and maintaining as well as yearly cleaning, service calls, unexpected issues, cleaning tools, vacuum, pellet containers, etc... $6K is only your starting point in this journey. Before we bought the stove we invested in massive energy improvements that cut my propane bill by half – especially around the attic and general insulation. Adding a stove to an inefficient house may only transfer the problem, not fix it.

On installation – this part is more important than the stove selection! I cannot stress enough how important this is. Make sure you are buying from a reputable company that have been there for a while and will continue to be there. Ask for references on projects they have done and see if you can talk to people that worked with them. Doing it right is critical to the success of the project and you will need to lean on them, especially during that first year. Do not compromise on that, even if it adds more $. Get the best dealer/installer your area has – preferably buying and installing with the same company. When you hit that first blink light, bad igniter, glass crack or just not knowing any better – you will thank yourself for that.

On lifestyle – running a pellet stove will change your life style, at least a bit. You become an OPERATOR. You need to be there to load it twice a day, clean it every week, do major cleaning every month. If it’s in your family room it will make noises, so if you like it to be nice and quiet – forget it. You are running a FIRE and its needs to be fed. You also need to carry about 200 bags (250 in my case) of pellets around every year, haul it from the store, stack it, etc. You need to sign on this line – it will not run itself and its not hands off. I like it, make sure you (and your wife and kids) do as well.

Read the sticky notes about installation in this forum, they have some very good info. Ask your installer about backup battery setup and buy UPS/surge protector.

I have an OAK, and if I was you I would also get one.

Hope this helps, good luck.