which flush insert: PE or Travis?

[joelrose]

Hi folks. My wife and I are close to pulling the trigger on a wood-burning flush insert and would welcome some real-world advice.

Our house is about 2000 sf in northern NJ. It's an older house. The gas bill is not awful, we just want to enjoy burning some wood in the house, make the place more comfortable, and know that we could keep it habitable in an emergency. Our current fireplace is lovely, but useless for heat.

We've narrowed it down to flush inserts partly for aesthetic reasons, and partly because that's all that will fit without big alterations to the hearth.

I found a reputable installer. I've got a bunch of wood drying out in the garage. The big question now is which insert.

I am leaning toward the Pacific Energy Neo 2.5 (or Neo 1.6 if it doesn't fit). People on this site speak highly of PE. It seems like the costs of ownership are reasonable. And I've read that it heats well even without the blower on, which sounds like a plus, if it's true.

The local dealer is trying to sell me on an Travis/Avalon Flush Wood Plus. It does seem a little more attractive. But there's a big price difference (roughly $1k). I don't know if there's a corresponding difference in performance, but I'd love to hear what you guys think.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

[kevreh]

Hi folks. My wife and I are close to pulling the trigger on a wood-burning flush insert and would welcome some real-world advice.

Our house is about 2000 sf in northern NJ. It's an older house. The gas bill is not awful, we just want to enjoy burning some wood in the house, make the place more comfortable, and know that we could keep it habitable in an emergency. Our current fireplace is lovely, but useless for heat.

We've narrowed it down to flush inserts partly for aesthetic reasons, and partly because that's all that will fit without big alterations to the hearth.

I found a reputable installer. I've got a bunch of wood drying out in the garage. The big question now is which insert.

I am leaning toward the Pacific Energy Neo 2.5 (or Neo 1.6 if it doesn't fit). People on this site speak highly of PE. It seems like the costs of ownership are reasonable. And I've read that it heats well even without the blower on, which sounds like a plus, if it's true.

The local dealer is trying to sell me on an Travis/Avalon Flush Wood Plus. It does seem a little more attractive. But there's a big price difference (roughly $1k). I don't know if there's a corresponding difference in performance, but I'd love to hear what you guys think.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

I have a Napoleon EPI3, which is a contemporary flush insert. Check it out too. Just make sure you compare BTUs and the fan speed (CFMs). Of course, BTUs can be a function of your wood too.

 

[timfromohio]

I ran a PE insert for close to 10 years - I believe it was the "Pacific" model which is now called the "Super"? 1.8 ft3 firebox, not flush. It was a great heater, but next to useless without the blower going (in spite of the fact that it did stick out a few inches). Just be aware of that.

 

[joelrose]

Thanks Tim. Is there such a thing as an insert that will put out some decent heat with the blower off, for love or money?

 

[Squisher]

The super firebox is 2.1 cubes and yes with my insert it's night and day the heat output with the blower on vs off. But the blower on low is barely noticeable to me from across the room so I just let it run on auto. When the stove gets up to temp it comes on and whenever it cools down it automatically turns off.

I'm a big fan of PE products myself.

The install will make a big difference on heating. Insulation, a block off plate, and a sealed top plate is very important, espescially if it's an exterior wall chimney.

 

[Hogwildz]

The Summit has blower running 24/7 here, but in event of a power failure, it still heats the house. Fans are much better, but heat is heat, it will find its way into the house, unless you have an uninsulated chase or no block off.

 

[begreen]

Thanks Tim. Is there such a thing as an insert that will put out some decent heat with the blower off, for love or money?

Yes, if the insert is not flush. As a general rule, the more the insert projects into the room the better it will heat with the blower off.

 

[kevreh]

...

The install will make a big difference on heating. Insulation, a block off plate, and a sealed top plate is very important, espescially if it's an exterior wall chimney.

I added Roxul insulation around the flue in the damper area above the fireplace. If I install a sheet metal plate will I get better performance/more heat? Roxul is pretty tight, just not air-tight.

 

[joelrose]

Yes, if the insert is not flush. As a general rule, the more the insert projects into the room the better it will heat with the blower off.

Makes sense. But I'm only working with about 18" of tile in front, so flush seems like the easiest fit.

Thanks for the feedback. It's been fun to lurk, now I'm excited to get my hands dirty!

 

[begreen]

For large flush also look at the Regency CI2600.

Wondering what your options are for hearth extension. Is the current hearth raised or flush with the floor?

 

[Squisher]

I added Roxul insulation around the flue in the damper area above the fireplace. If I install a sheet metal plate will I get better performance/more heat? Roxul is pretty tight, just not air-tight.

A sealed block off plate will be better for the reason you mentioned roxul is not airtight. On my own insert I added a block off plate that fits fairly well but isn't sealed. I'm installed in a interior masonry chimney so heat lossinto the chimney isn't as big of a concern for me.

 

[joelrose]

For large flush also look at the Regency CI2600.

Wondering what your options are for hearth extension. Is the current hearth raised or flush with the floor?

The current hearth is maybe an inch off the floor. It extends about 18 inches out. It's good looking and probably original to the house, so I am wary of messing with it. But it's clearly limiting my options here.

The Regency Cl2600 is definitely a looker. But I noticed many users were down on the catalytic units as they started to hit the market a few years ago. Have the manufacturers since worked out the bugs, or is that still the case?

 

[begreen]

I would get the insert that you feel will do the best job. No matter what you choose there will be a small compromise of one sort or another. If necessary you can extend the hearth at floor level with a hearth extension pad.

The CI2600 is a hybrid. The first units could get a very robust fire but Regency quickly addressed this with additional air restriction. Folks seem quite happy with them now. Cat stoves do add a level of complexity with the benefit of a cleaner longer burn in most cases.

 

[Hogwildz]

I added Roxul insulation around the flue in the damper area above the fireplace. If I install a sheet metal plate will I get better performance/more heat? Roxul is pretty tight, just not air-tight.

Your last sentence answers your question.

 

[Dmitry]

Thanks Tim. Is there such a thing as an insert that will put out some decent heat with the blower off, for love or money?

I heat with Travis Flush Hybrid. Once room temp hits 75 or so I shut the fan off. it does produce decent amount of heat to maintain temperature and firebox runs hotter with no fan. Which means more efficient fire. It depends on your installation as well. I have internal chimney and some stone surrounding the insert. Stones above insert getting very hot while burning with no fan. Can't even touch them after a while.

 

[timfromohio]

Thanks Tim. Is there such a thing as an insert that will put out some decent heat with the blower off, for love or money?

The PE insert we had stuck out enough to put a small pot or humidifier on top of the top plate and still didn't do a lot without the blower - just comes down to how much surface area you have out in the room across which heat transfer takes place. Our particular situation might have been worse than normal in that the brick chimney in which the insert was installed backed into an unheated garage, so the brick mass heated up and partially heated that garage space. That said, I wouldn't let flush vs. sticking-out make your decision. Pick the one you like the best. In the event of a power outage a small deep cycle battery and 800 watt (or less) inverter will power the fan for days. Between the two, I'd pick PE just based on my past experience. It was a great unit.

 

[smokee]

Neo 2.5
Hi everyone and joelrose. This is my second year as a wood burner and I have been lurking around here a couple years but not saying much. When we moved into our house a little more than two years ago, we wanted to put an insert into our fireplace. The same as you, joelrose, our hearth is only 18in deep and we didn't want to take on a hearth renovation to stay in code with a non-flush insert. Also the wife likes the flush look better anyway. We did go with the PE Neo 2.5.
I went with PE mainly for the good rep they have here and their proprietary baffle system.

Our house is about 3500 sft, on 4 levels, but we use it to heat 2400 sft on two levels. The first year we scrounged and begged for wood and didn't have the best success with not properly seasoned wood. This year we've got 2 year seasoned wood and with a year's experience under our belts things are going great. The thing pumps out the heat! I know in general I live in a more temperate area, but we just had a week with lows in the low 20s and highs in the low 30s and we had no trouble keeping the 2400 sft at 72-74. Matter of fact we were stretching out the burn cycles as we really don't care for the house being 75 or over. I've been burning Doug Fir in 16" splits. I cut them a little shorter to burn N/S - 18" splits will burn N/S in it too, but they sit too close to the glass. With the box full of N/S splits I can get a 10-11 hr burn in it. Enough for an overnight and even sleep in on Saturdays.

My only complaint with it is dirty left side glass. I've heard others on this forum talk about the issue too. I use kiln dried cabinet scraps for kindling and 2 year seasoned fir and I still get the left side dark glass. No worries, I just wipe off with a dry paper towel when loading next and it's clean again.
I wouldn't hesitate to go with the Neo 2.5. If you like the look, it'll do the job.

I can't speak to heat output without power or fans. We haven't had an outage since we got it.
One more thing - I paid $2650 installed. There is a chimney sweep in my area who is a PE dealer. No showroom, just a van. If you know the model you want this guy will order and install 40% less than the two other bids I got when shopping 2 years ago. If anyone is shopping for PE in SW Washington or PDX, I'd be happy to pass along the sweep's name.
Good luck!

 

[cmcguigan]

Neo 2.5
Hi everyone and joelrose. This is my second year as a wood burner and I have been lurking around here a couple years but not saying much. When we moved into our house a little more than two years ago, we wanted to put an insert into our fireplace. The same as you, joelrose, our hearth is only 18in deep and we didn't want to take on a hearth renovation to stay in code with a non-flush insert. Also the wife likes the flush look better anyway. We did go with the PE Neo 2.5.
I went with PE mainly for the good rep they have here and their proprietary baffle system.

Our house is about 3500 sft, on 4 levels, but we use it to heat 2400 sft on two levels. The first year we scrounged and begged for wood and didn't have the best success with not properly seasoned wood. This year we've got 2 year seasoned wood and with a year's experience under our belts things are going great. The thing pumps out the heat! I know in general I live in a more temperate area, but we just had a week with lows in the low 20s and highs in the low 30s and we had no trouble keeping the 2400 sft at 72-74. Matter of fact we were stretching out the burn cycles as we really don't care for the house being 75 or over. I've been burning Doug Fir in 16" splits. I cut them a little shorter to burn N/S - 18" splits will burn N/S in it too, but they sit too close to the glass. With the box full of N/S splits I can get a 10-11 hr burn in it. Enough for an overnight and even sleep in on Saturdays.

My only complaint with it is dirty left side glass. I've heard others on this forum talk about the issue too. I use kiln dried cabinet scraps for kindling and 2 year seasoned fir and I still get the left side dark glass. No worries, I just wipe off with a dry paper towel when loading next and it's clean again.
I wouldn't hesitate to go with the Neo 2.5. If you like the look, it'll do the job.

I can't speak to heat output without power or fans. We haven't had an outage since we got it.
One more thing - I paid $2650 installed. There is a chimney sweep in my area who is a PE dealer. No showroom, just a van. If you know the model you want this guy will order and install 40% less than the two other bids I got when shopping 2 years ago. If anyone is shopping for PE in SW Washington or PDX, I'd be happy to pass along the sweep's name.
Good luck!


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Im in federalway and think of getting the neo2.5 also, whats you guys info?

 

[smokee]

Im in federalway and think of getting the neo2.5 also, whats you guys info?

sent you a PM

 

[mstoelton]

The PE stoves are very popular on the site and seem to offer a reliable heat source. They also have a stainless steel baffle that is less likely to be damaged than the ceramic board baffles on many stoves. PE is definitely a good product with a great reputation. while I truly love my Hearthstone Clydesdales, If I had it to do over again I would be seriously looking at the PE products.

 

[wisconsin2]

just got a pe neo 2.5 insert. love it,
the house came with a quadrafire grand voyageur upstairs and after research i decided on the pacific energy downstairs.
2300 square foot house built late 50s....
the neo will heat the whole house downstairs high 70s upstairs 69-71 . i could turn on the hvac unit fan but do not need to.
the wisconsin dealer was professional!!

my grand voyageur window has to be cleaned regularly. same wood and the neo i cleaned only after two weeks and really was just the corners ..

i am glad i went with the pe neo 2.5 insert lights easy, well built, airwash great, can really pump out the heat much quieter fan