Which Wood Insert For A Small Fireplace?

[KennyK]

I've been checking inserts now that I have a layout of your firebox on the computer. Most inserts will either be small or will need to have a very prominent front, which will probably require a hearth extension.

Can you post a picture of the fireplace? It sounds like it is tailor made for a nice hearth stove. I'm thinking a Woodstock Keystone or Hearthstone Shelburne for starters.

Here are two pics. Let me know if you need any more/different angle, etc.

I have my heart set on an insert for a few reasons (feel free to tell me your thoughts):

1) I like that it gives the feel of more of a "real" fireplace

2) The room it's in isn't huge, so I will loose more of the room with a freestanding stove, even versus an insert that sticks out a bit and just having to extend the hearth a bit.

3) I have small children and it strikes me as a little less of a danger being pushed into the fireplace (either way I'll probably have to get a gate for the next few years).

4) I've heard the inserts are better at heating larger portions of the house, vs. the freestanding which is better at heating the room it's in - don't know if this is true.

Again, the room it's in has a ceiling fan, and the floor plan is pretty open (not completely) including a pretty open area up to the second floor.

Thanks!

Kenny

 

[begreen]

Thanks Kenny, that is a big help. The photo points out another serious issue, clearance to combustibles. I'm assuming you don't want to touch the nice woodwork, so this will affect the decisions. The good news is that it looks like a nice generous hearth. I am thinking about a stove half in the fireplace so that you can maintain 16" from the stove glass to the front edge of the hearth.

As for the concerns, they are reasonable, but not all based on the correct assumptions. Personally I think an insert will look wrong there unless carefully styled. This fireplace has a period look. It will require a custom surround because of it's tall aspect. Filling that area with a modern rectangular box is going to work against the visual lines, in my personal opinion. A classic look of a Castine, Shelburne or Woodstock stove is going to be much more in character. The issue with children is the same regardless. They need to learn that the stove is hot and will cause a bad owee. Fortunately, they usually learn this very quickly. If still concerned put a child safety gate in front. I'm not sure where the last conjecture came from, but in general you will get better heating from the freestanding stove.

 

[jatoxico]

I agree w/ BG. A free standing stove will look better in that very nice fireplace. This is coming from an insert guy. Free stander does not require fans to get the heat into the room either. My fans are quiet but not as quiet as no fans.

 

[KennyK]

I agree w/ BG. A free standing stove will look better in that very nice fireplace. This is coming from an insert guy. Free stander does not require fans to get the heat into the room either. My fans are quiet but not as quiet as no fans.

Thanks guys. Hmmmm, this is a new development because I've been pretty wed to the insert idea. I guess that's part of why I'm here on the site!

As you can see in my pics, I have a marble hearth that extends 18-1/2" and then a wood floor. Would I need to put something down in front of the marble? Part of my concern is cutting into the space of the room with the fireplace (which is not that large). I'll only be able to get the stove so far into the fireplace - while my opening is 30" in the front it quickly tapers off to 19-1/2" at the back (again, only 15 inches deep). If I do go the the direction of the freestanding stove, I saw a very good deal on a Hearthstone Heritage in my area, but it looks like that might be too big (I don't think I could even get the back legs into the fireplace).

As for the heating of the freestanding vs. the insert, does the heat get to other parts of the house as easily?

Thanks!

 

[jatoxico]

I agree w/ BG. A free standing stove will look better in that very nice fireplace. This is coming from an insert guy. Free stander does not require fans to get the heat into the room either. My fans are quiet but not as quiet as no fans.

As for the heating of the freestanding vs. the insert, does the heat get to other parts of the house as easily?

Thanks!

Free standers are probably better heaters. With an insert the sides and back of the stove are not exposed to room air and need the fans to get that heat out. Not that inserts are bad heaters but I think free standers are better. In the same way inserts that extend onto the hearth are better heaters than fully flush inserts like my Jotul and can throw some decent heat w/o their fans on.

For looks I would want to show off as much of that marble as possible. The legs of a free stander will allow a nice view of the marble underneath and no surround to cover up the sides. Just clean up the existing firebox.

 

[KennyK]

I agree w/ BG. A free standing stove will look better in that very nice fireplace. This is coming from an insert guy. Free stander does not require fans to get the heat into the room either. My fans are quiet but not as quiet as no fans.

As for the heating of the freestanding vs. the insert, does the heat get to other parts of the house as easily?

Thanks!

Free standers are probably better heaters. With an insert the sides and back of the stove are not exposed to room air and need the fans to get that heat out. Not that inserts are bad heaters but I think free standers are better. In the same way inserts that extend onto the hearth are better heaters than fully flush inserts like my Jotul and can throw some decent heat w/o their fans on.

For looks I would want to show off as much of that marble as possible. The legs of a free stander will allow a nice view of the marble underneath and no surround to cover up the sides. Just clean up the existing firebox.

Well, you all have got me thinking now. I also got an email from the dealer I've been working with and he said he doesn't think there's any insert with a 2.0 cu. ft. firebox that will fit. I also forgot to mention that my fireplace has a beautiful black metal heat reflector around the whole inside, which when cleaned up should look very nice with its intricate design.

Now, however, if I do go in the freestanding stove direction, I still don't think I'll be able to get much of the stove in the fireplace as it tapers so quickly. At about 4 inches into the fireplace I'm at around 26" wide. How much (if at all) will I have to extend my hearth? Is that an easy enough job? Expensive?

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

The Hearthstone Heritage is a side-loading stove that would need to sit our further. The Tribute is a front loader and might work better.

Can you provide the following dimensions?
What is the distance between the hearth and the bottom of the mantle where it projects more than 1"?
What is the the distance from the center of the fireplace to the nearest side wood work?

 

[KennyK]

Can you provide the following dimensions.
What is the distance between the hearth and the bottom of the mantle where it projects more than 1"?
What is the the distance from the center of the fireplace to the nearest side wood work?

For the first questions, do you mean from the ground (on top of the marble hearth) to the bottom of the mantle where it projects more than 1"? If so, that's approx. 35"

The distance from the center of the fireplace to the nearest side woodwork is 21"


BeGreen, while you've encouraged me to be more open to a freestanding stove, I'm still trying to explore the options of the inserts. I believe the morgan will fit and that has a 1.7 inch firebox, which is close to the 2.0. Do you, or anyone else here have any thoughts about the Morgan? I read a lot of good things about the Clydesdale, but I can't find much info on the Morgan.

Thanks!

Kenny

 

[Dix]

Kenny, if you can go with a stove, go for it.


I shoulda got a stove instead of the insert.

 

[KennyK]

Kenny, if you can go with a stove, go for it.


I shoulda got a stove instead of the insert.

Thanks for the advice Eileen, I seem to be getting a lot of encouragement for the stove. Can you let me know you reasons?

One of the reasons I mentioned I wanted the insert was to have it look like more of a "real" fireplace. A lot of people here seem to think that the freestanding stove partially inside the original fireplace looks nicer. Reasons?

Kenny

 

[Dix]

Kenny, if you can go with a stove, go for it.


I shoulda got a stove instead of the insert.

Thanks for the advice Eileen, I seem to be getting a lot of encouragement for the stove. Can you let me know you reasons?

One of the reasons I mentioned I wanted the insert was to have it look like more of a "real" fireplace. A lot of people here seem to think that the freestanding stove partially inside the original fireplace looks nicer. Reasons?

Kenny

Forget the "real fireplace Idea (and I'll talk to the wife, if need be %-P ) It doesn't get the job done.



I would have put the stove in a more "heat conductive" area of the house. Now, I'm looking at adding another stove to get it all heated ( that'd make 3, I'll be like Browning Bar ;-)

)

My den, where the PE is, is a narrow room (12" wide X 19" long), it opens to an open floor plan. Stove in the FP wasn't going to work, due to the width of the room.


If you have the room, go for it.

 

[KennyK]

Kenny, if you can go with a stove, go for it.


I shoulda got a stove instead of the insert.

Thanks for the advice Eileen, I seem to be getting a lot of encouragement for the stove. Can you let me know you reasons?

One of the reasons I mentioned I wanted the insert was to have it look like more of a "real" fireplace. A lot of people here seem to think that the freestanding stove partially inside the original fireplace looks nicer. Reasons?

Kenny

Forget the "real fireplace Idea (and I'll talk to the wife, if need be %-P ) It doesn't get the job done.



I would have put the stove in a more "heat conductive" area of the house. Now, I'm looking at adding another stove to get it all heated ( that'd make 3, I'll be like Browning Bar ;-)

)

My den, where the PE is, is a narrow room (12" wide X 19" long), it opens to an open floor plan. Stove in the FP wasn't going to work, due to the width of the room.


If you have the room, go for it.

Funny assumption about the wife wanting the "real fireplace" That's me My wife just wants it to be VERY warm in our house

Seriously though, I have felt that the insert looks neater and that the stove in front of the fireplace (or partially in it) looks out of place. Now I'm starting to reconsider. It's hard to tell what the final look will be as I'm going by pictures of inserts (I've never actually seen one live in a house, believe it or not), and they always look very neat. However, that may not be the case with my fireplace.

I guess of more importance, as my wife would concur, is the heating potential.

Kenny

 

[fredarm]

The Heritage has front and side loading doors according to the Chimneysweep website. Another thought would be the Hearthstone Homestead which is designed as a fireplace hearthmount stove.

 

[KennyK]

The Heritage has front and side loading doors according to the Chimneysweep website. Another thought would be the Hearthstone Homestead which is designed as a fireplace hearthmount stove.

Thanks Fred,

I love how the Homestead looks, but to me it looks just like a regular wood stove. What makes it a fireplace hearthmount?

I was asking about the Hearthstone Heritage, because someone in my area is selling one that is supposedly brand new, never used, for $1800. Seems like a very good deal, but the problem is I think it may be too large for my fireplace area. My opening is 30" X 30", but quickly tapers off in back is 29" height by 29.5" width. I won't really be able to get it into the chimney at all, but if it's a very good deal on a great stove, maybe I should go for it and just stick it in front of the fireplace and then set up a whole new hearth. Incidentally the depth of the Heritage is 21.5", and my hearth goes out 18.5, so it wouldn't even be able to sit completely on my marble hearth. Thoughts?

Kenny

 

[begreen]

This is going to be challenging. The issue I keep running into is clearance to combustibles, namely the side trim and mantel.

 

[begreen]

Can you provide the following dimensions.
What is the distance between the hearth and the bottom of the mantle where it projects more than 1"?
What is the the distance from the center of the fireplace to the nearest side wood work?

For the first questions, do you mean from the ground (on top of the marble hearth) to the bottom of the mantle where it projects more than 1"? If so, that's approx. 35"

The distance from the center of the fireplace to the nearest side woodwork is 21"


BeGreen, while you've encouraged me to be more open to a freestanding stove, I'm still trying to explore the options of the inserts. I believe the morgan will fit and that has a 1.7 inch firebox, which is close to the 2.0. Do you, or anyone else here have any thoughts about the Morgan? I read a lot of good things about the Clydesdale, but I can't find much info on the Morgan.

Thanks!

Kenny

Let me take a look. It may turn out to be one of the best options. It would just squeak in if all dimensions are accurate. There may need to be some mantel shielding, the dimensions are close there too.

Download this document and you will see how close things are. It's a squeaker, but may be possible with a good installer. But the mantle still looks like an issue.

http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/assets/files/document_library/schematic-morgan-select.pdf

This is completely out of left field, but do you have natural gas in the house?

 

[KennyK]

This is completely out of left field, but do you have natural gas in the house?

I do have natural gas in the house, and the dealer has suggested I should get a gas stove. Call me a romantic, but I love the idea of burning wood Seems like I've got a lot of company on this site!

 

[begreen]

If no wood burning options pan out for this fireplace consider installing a classy unit like a Valor Portrait.
http://www.valorfireplaces.com/products/portrait_zeroclearance.php

Then look around and consider putting in a freestanding stove in a location without too many complications or an insert in a deeper fireplace is that is an option.

 

[KennyK]

If no wood burning options pan out for this fireplace consider installing a classy unit like a Valor Portrait.
http://www.valorfireplaces.com/products/portrait_zeroclearance.php

Then look around and consider putting in a freestanding stove in a location without too many complications or an insert in a deeper fireplace is that is an option.

Wow, those are classy! Why don't they make wood inserts like that?

Do you feel that putting in a small insert is a waste of time?

I'll have to look into the clearance issues of a wood stove more as I'm now beginning to explore that option. The location of my fireplace is pretty ideal as it's right in the middle of the first floor. I'm not sure where else I could put a stove in my house that would make sense.

 

[begreen]

Waste of time, no. Wood heat is nice. My concern is whether it can be done safely in this location given the constraints and surrounding woodwork. What did the dealer have to say about the Morgan? Also, a Lopi Revere almost works except for the woodwork.

 

[KennyK]

Waste of time, no. Wood heat is nice. My concern is whether it can be done safely in this location given the constraints and surrounding woodwork. What did the dealer have to say about the Morgan? Also, a Lopi Revere almost works except for the woodwork.

What I meant by a small stove being a waste of time was really would I find myself frustrated at how frequently I would have to fill it and how much space it would heat (for something like the regency i1200).

As for the Morgan, the dealer hasn't gotten back to me about it. For now all he's suggested is the Altera (which he said would "just" fit) and the Regency i1200. He said he's still looking into other possibilities (this is their busy season and I'm getting a lot more help here!)

The lopi revere looks nice! I also read a very favorable post about the Hearthstone Homestead and I love the way that one looks - what do you think? As far as the Hearthstone Heritage that someone was selling cheap in my area, I made a call and it's sold, so I can take that one off the list! Incidentally, the guy who was selling it told me he loved it and was just selling due to remodeling.

 

[fredarm]

In response to your earlier question, the Homestead is shallower than many stoves so that it will stick out less. It also has 4 inch legs instead of 6 inch legs so it will take up less height. The Chimney Sweep Online has a nice page on it.

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hshmstd.htm

 

[KennyK]

In response to your earlier question, the Homestead is shallower than many stoves so that it will stick out less. It also has 4 inch legs instead of 6 inch legs so it will take up less height. The Chimney Sweep Online has a nice page on it.

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hshmstd.htm

Thanks!

I'm starting to have a love affair with the Homestead (at least from what I see online), but man is it expensive! I've started to look around and I see a few used options locally. What do you all think about buying a used stove? As a complete novice, how can I know it's not cracked or with some other problem? How old is too old? Any other thoughts on this would be helpful.

I also need to see if it will fit in my area in terms of code with surround wood, etc., but it seems like a great option.

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Waste of time, no. Wood heat is nice. My concern is whether it can be done safely in this location given the constraints and surrounding woodwork. What did the dealer have to say about the Morgan? Also, a Lopi Revere almost works except for the woodwork.

What I meant by a small stove being a waste of time was really would I find myself frustrated at how frequently I would have to fill it and how much space it would heat (for something like the regency i1200).

As for the Morgan, the dealer hasn't gotten back to me about it. For now all he's suggested is the Altera (which he said would "just" fit) and the Regency i1200. He said he's still looking into other possibilities (this is their busy season and I'm getting a lot more help here!)

The lopi revere looks nice! I also read a very favorable post about the Hearthstone Homestead and I love the way that one looks - what do you think? As far as the Hearthstone Heritage that someone was selling cheap in my area, I made a call and it's sold, so I can take that one off the list! Incidentally, the guy who was selling it told me he loved it and was just selling due to remodeling.

A smaller stove is still going to heat. It will need to be fed more frequently than a large firebox and that will affect overnight burn times. But as an area heater, a 1.4 cu ft stove can do a very good job.

 

[fredarm]

Yeah, the soapstone stoves are beautiful but expensive. Woodstock has a nice sale going on now on theirs, but they're all side-loaders which will limit how far back you can put it in the fireplace. Used stoves can be a good buy, but you have to be careful. Don't buy a pre-EPA (1989) stove--they are smoke dragons generally and eat more wood. Look for signs of abuse and overfiring--a whitish color on black stoves and cracks in the cast iron or steel. Gaskets can be replaced, light rust can be sanded off and the stove repainted. Avoid used Vermont Castings stoves, they seem to have issues. Be very certain of your clearances and dimensions--used stoves can't be returned and there are a few folks around here who have bought used stoves only to find they won't fit.