Which wood stove for large open log home @ 7600 elev?

[Mr_Super-Hunky]

Can you please help me choose a good quality wood burning stove for my application?

Here is some info on the application:


. Large extremely open log home w/ 2100sf downstairs and 1500sf in open loft upstairs.
. Elevation is at 7600 ft. (Outside,Flagstaff AZ)
. I have unlimited supply of pine. (I know, crappy wood, but thats all we have here).
. Ceiling height is 28 ft high.
. It gets very cold year round.

I really fell in love with the Vermont Castings "Defiant", (good looking stove), but have heard nothing but poor reviews of their quality and "fit and finish".

I am also considering a Lopi "Leyden" wood stove as they seem to have incredible burn times as well as burn pine very good. Also, the reviews on Lopi seem to all be very positive.

Any other larger capacity wood stoves that are of good quality and performance?.....$2k-$3k range?

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Bill]

That's a big house, not sure one stove can heat it all. The Lopi looks like a very nice stove, it was in the top five of the stoves I liked. My dealer had one burning and it has a very nice looking fire and many people like the top loading feature.

Do you want to heat your whole house or just the main living area?

My favorite stoves are soapstone, very nice for continuous burning, and very attractive. Isle Royal, Morso 3610, and Pacific Energy are three big stoves you may care to look at also.

 

[mayhem]

I grew up next to an original Defiant, made before they had glass doors...we used it in the living room and a small Westinghouse stove in the kitchen to suppliment the heat in a 9000 square foot house. It was pretty effective, but even with the two of them running full bore you couldn't keep that house warm...but it was a seriously huge 3 story house.

I'm in a similar situation to you with a mid sized open floor plan log home...24' ceilings in the great room, wall of windows on one side, about 1750 square feet of floor space, but the footprint of a 2300 sq foot home.

I bought a Morso 3610 for the great room and do not think it will heat the whole house at all times, but it will hopefully cut my oil usage by about 40-50%. What I did was look at my home's layout, the arrangemetn of heating zones relative to open air volume and the max output of my boiler in btu's. Boiler is a 180,000btu and will run 5 simultaneous zones for heat in my house (hot water, and heated slab in the basement too)...my 3610 is rated at a max of 60,000 btu, so figuring the law of averages and that the rating is under ideal conditions I ought to be able to get a consistent 30,000-40,000 out of it...if I did my metal math corectly this should easily ake care of the heat load of my great room on all but the coldest, windiest days...other day I should be able to get some good heat into the upstairs master bedroom from convention currents and hopefully some will belld down the 1st floor hall to the back 2 bedrooms too.

I have 2 large ceiling fans in the great room to help keep the warmth circulating and may buy one of those heat powered fans at some point for some directed heat as well.

In a house your size you're probably looking at 2 stoves to approach anything like efficient heating...but a big one in the great room and then maybe another in the next largest area of the home, on the opposite end.

Got any photos to share with us? I'd love to see what you've got for a house.

 

[Corie]

Ya know, this might be the first time I've said this, but that sounds like a perfect application for the new Extra Large Hearthstone stove coming out.


There is not way a single Lopi Leyden or Defiant is going to heat that entire house, you're definitely going to either need a monster stove, or two stoves. I like the two stoves idea because if they're positioned correctly in the house you'll be able to only burn one stove when the weather is mild, much like some of our members already do.


I'm not sure if there is information on the new Hearthstone stove, or if you've even interested in a soapstone unit, but that would probably be just the ticket for the large area you're trying to heat.

 

[elkimmeg]

What about the blaze king stove with the 4.5 cu ft fire box? Now you are talking about some serious size and heating capacity and very effecient in GPH

 

[Shane]

that hearthstone is a monster. I read about it in the dealer letter the other day. Almost 700 lbs. I don't know what the budget/space situation is but have you considered one of the masonry heaters? I've always heard great things about them.

 

[Todd]

AT 700lbs, isn't that almost like a masonary heater?

 

[Mr_Super-Hunky]

Thanks for the suggestions thus far.

As I've said, our floor plan is EXTREMELY open. Just consider a main open foot print of 2100sf with 28' high ceilings. then just add a wrap around loft which is equivilent to 1500sf.

I'm not sure if two stoves is the answer as ALL the heat produced downstairs will rise straight up immediatly. I really have 2100sf of an open floorplan to heat with never ending ceilings!.

As far as the soapstone stoves, are you referring to the "Mansfield" by Hearthstone?, or that new even larger stove which is the size of a small fridge?.

I have considred the following stove models:

Vermont castings "Defiant"....quality issues?
Lopi "Leyden"
Hearthstone "Mansfield"
Jotul 600 firelight
Isla Royal (dovre/quadrafire), very short burn times though.

BTW, I tried posting up some pics but this site does'nt appear to support html codes....you know

 

[begreen]

Click on "Post Reply" (not Fast Reply). At the bottom of the Post Reply page is a section for attachments. If you want to post multiple pictures, click on Preview Post after linking to the attachment, that will upload it and then another attachment picture can be added. If you need to downsize pictures several of us here can help. Or use Picassa or other basic tool to bring the image size down to about 800 x 600, med jpeg compression.

I'm curious about the statement that the Isle Royale has short burn times. That doesn't seem to be the case with our local owners (Carpneil, Jags). While looking, consider the new Pacific Energy Alderlea T6.

 

[Mr_Super-Hunky]

BeGreen:

Disclaimer: I am a wood burning novice; actually, I have never had any wood stove before.

That said, I have spoken to many neighbors around here and the ones who are using quadrafire anything are getting horrific burn times (4-hours max). Even the posted burn times in the quad literature says 5-8 hours burn time and you know that is under ideal conditions.

I was told that Lopi has some of the longest burn times of any mfg and they put out a lot of heat.

One neighbor has the quad 7100 or something fireplace and it puts out a ton of heat but uses up SOOO much wood in doing so (as well as only 4 hr burn time).

 

[BrotherBart]

Wood consumption and burn times are going to be greatly affected by the local wood you have available. If I am not mistaken, Aspen, Pine and Pinion are the most abundent flavors around there and they will be fast burners.

 

[Shane]

Yeah the Hearthstone we're talking about is a step above the Mansfield. It has a 4.x cubic ft. firebox. Hearthstone compares it to the Hearthstone I. Pretty amazing feat getting a wood stove with a monster firebox like that EPA approved.

It's called the Equinox. It's passed EPA and is currently in safety testing. Should be available in October. Also they've come up with a wood burning cookstove looks really nice.

 

[titan]

If you're not opposed to fireplaces,check out the Napolean High Country NZ6000.....4.8cu,ft firebox and looks great too boot.

 

[Mr_Super-Hunky]

Wood consumption and burn times are going to be greatly affected by the local wood you have available. If I am not mistaken, Aspen, Pine and Pinion are the most abundent flavors around there and they will be fast burners.

Very true. All we have up here is pine. Very dry, very abundant and very "dirty"!. It burns very quick so I wonder how accurate any burn time rating will be using only pine.

I will inquire about the new Hearthstone mega monster stove. If I purchase that one, I may look into reinforcing the sub floor a bit; at least where the stove will go.

Also, I am getting very conflicting info on single wall or double wall pipe inside the home.

Some say I want to take advantage of the radiant heat given off by the pipe since the ceiling is almost 30' tall. Others say that it too tall a run to get proper drafting from a single wall pipe (cools off too much at top of pipe).

Anyone know the truth?

 

[Gunner]

If your looking to heat that place solely with wood I personally would have 2 big stoves.

If your looking to supplement your heat, 1 stove will help, but it will not cut it 100% of the time.

Huge house, 1 stove and PINE, you'll be firing that thing like a locomotive.

 

[Shane]

That tall you'll certainly want double wall pipe. The heat that an epa rated stove lets go up the chimney is necessary to ensure proper draft. Double wall pipe will help slow the cooling of flue gasses and help your draft.

 

[Todd]

I wouldn't give up on the Defiant. Yes, there is some bad reviews on this site, but I bet most are because of operator error or bad installs. VC sells lots of stoves, probably more than any other manufacture, so yes, they will have more complaints on this site. You have to get a stove that you can stuff a chit load of wood in, and a top loading Defiant or a Blaze King would do the best in my opinion. Go with the largest cat stove you can find, you will get longer burns and more heat with that pine wood, than you would with a non cat stove. I know people will argue that fact, and I don't want to bring up the whole cat/noncat debate, but in my experience it's true.

 

[Mr_Super-Hunky]

Yes, I agree but won't I be missing out on all that radiant heat from the hot pipe?, or is most of the heat generated at the firebox?

I do understand that a cold pipe from being to tall must be a double wall to retain enough heat around the pipe for proper drafting. That makes sense. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Mr_Super-Hunky]

Todd; I believe the VC's "defiant" stove comes in both cat and none cat but the performances are just about even so why bother with the extra headache and expense if the outcome is the same?

 

[Todd]

Sorry, I didn't realize the Defiant came in a non cat everburn stove. The book is still out on the new everburn system, and I haven't heard of any great advantages so far. But time will tell. I just know I can get true 12 hour or more burn time with my 2 cu ft fire box cat stove with oak, and a good 6 to 8 hr burn time with softer woods.

 

[Mr_Super-Hunky]

What size home are you heating with your Defiant?. Also, what kind of winter temps do you have?, and is your stove your primary heat source?

 

[Gooserider]

It would sound to me like if you don't already have some big ceiling fans installed you will need them to drive your heat back downstairs... I can say from having gone through it in our house which has a 24 foot ceiling that is of the "can't get there from here" variety, that you should look at Casablanca fans - they are very expensive, but supposedly top quality. They also are the only fans that have NO maintainance requirements in the fine print, and that can be reversed from the floor (on some models)

We found this out when replacing the cheapo fan that the original owner had put up (no real complaints, it lasted 20+ years) and trying to find a replacement that we would never have to touch again - Considering that I had to rent and put up an 18' staging tower in the living room, this seemed like an important feature.....

There have been issues with some of the VC fireplaces, and we have had mixed reviews on the VC "Everburn" versions of their stoves, but most of the VC cat stoves, such as the Encore and the Defiant seem to have been pretty solid and low trouble. Not sure you could do the job in a house your size with just one stove though, at least not at the coldest temps. Certainly it would help then, and might be enough to carry you in milder weather but not below freezing unless you have mondo-good insulation...

Gooserider

 

[Mr_Super-Hunky]

Thanks for the info Goose. We do have three fans already installed at the ridge and the roof pitch is very steep (10/12) so I will actually be blowing the air UP and then the angled ceilings will divert the circulating air back down.

Several people have had concers that a single stove of any brand may not be enough.Whether it is or not, I have not heard anyone worry that it may be too much heat!. For that reason, I too am a bit worried that we may be underpowered.

The way I see it, a second stove may be worthless upstairs as all my heat is going there anyway.

One thing to remember that full log homes have an incredible "thermal mass" in terms of insulation. Once they warm up, they can remain warm relatively easily...(So I am told).

Should I get the defiant or the new Lopi Leyden, would it be bad for the stove to be running all the time at say medium setting?, or should I possibly hold out for the upcoming monster equinox by Hearthstone?. Maybe that tank at 80,000 btu.s with a 4.0+ cf box would do the job.

I may be putting a very expensive grand piano in the house so I am also concerned with humidity levels. I've read an outside combustion air kit will possibly prevent the home from getting to dry and stuffy. Any thoughts ?

 

[suematteva]

You may want to take a look at the big Jotul, the firelight 600..it it s a little bigger than the mansfield.

apologies for the hijack...must be the sedonna vortexes hitting me up in Quebec!!

Does anyone have pictures of the new hearthstone equinox..stopped in the other day at the dealer and only a line drawing..The company that owns hearthstone, Spain based. has been making woodburning cookstoves for a long time, am interested to see that also..

 

[elkimmeg]

I made a good suggestion with Blaze king it is a well made stove incrediable long burns and very clean operating. It has the large firebox and heat capacity no 3 cu ft box can match

All other suggestions have smaller fire boxes Me I hate being the one of the first to being quality control to new products. Waiting for a new model without user history to me is a bit of a gamble
I'm not willing to take. Part of the initial problem is no reserve of parts support no dealertrouble shooting experience witha new model. all of which can equate to less than swift responses to problems that could occure. Let me ask you how all the new owners of Beta Max worked out for them? Another factor you are not an experienced burner. You may not reconize if a problem esist for quite some time. I would call this strike 2 at purchasing a new model .Strike 3 no user base to draw upon to help you learn how the stove functions. both on a dealer stand point sell the stove or repairs. Just some food for thought.