Whitfield Auger Makes Thumping Sound on Rotation?

[Two Flints]

Hello,

As I type my Whitfield Advantage II-T is heating just fine.

However, every so often, when the auger motor rotates it strikes the metal shelf just below the motor and makes a "thud" sound. It doesn't do it all the time, the "thud" is very irregular, sometimes loud some times very soft.

The auger shaft turns just fine dropping pellets just fine . . . but not sure why I get the occasional "thud" as the motor rotates . . . is the motor supposed to rotate? If not maybe it's just slipping back on the shaft and hitting the metal shaft . . . how or what can I do to correct the "thud"?

Could someone post a photo on how the auger motor looks with the auger plate attached?

I purchased the Whitfield back in 1992 and it has been just great over the years.

Any ideas to help me out?

Thanks,

Two Flints/Fred

 

[Stovensen]

As I see it, the thumping sound could be generated in two locations:

1:
The lower auger bearing is worn and now has excessive clearance that allows the auger shaft to work a little sidewards. When power to the auger motor is cut at the end of the feed cycle, the shaft still has enough rotational energy to move the shaft a tiny bit. When the motor is energized again, the torgue is pressing the shaft against the other side of the clearance gap, and the thumbing is heard.

2:
When power to the auger motor is cut at the end of the feed cycle, the shaft still has enough rotational energy to move the entire auger motor from its resting point on the auger end plate. When the motor is energized again, the torgue makes the auger housing hit the auger rest on the end plate with an audible thumbing sound.
As you can see on this pic, the upgraded end plate comes with a rubber bumper. This should dampen the thumbing sound. Maybe you can find a piece of rubber that will fit on your present endplate. This way you won't have to buy the upgrade. Let us know how it works out.

Could someone post a photo on how the auger motor looks with the auger plate attached?

This video gives very detailed information on the auger system on a Whitfield stove. Note: the rubber bumper is also missing on the original end plate in the video.

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Good luck and take care. Keep us posted

 

[Two Flints]

Hi Stovensen,

Thanks for your suggestions. I do have the upgraded end plate installed with the rubber bumper. I also have the new Nylatron bearing installed with it. My auger motor is new, less than two years old and works fine, pellets drop as they are called from the control board.

When installed, how should the upgraded end plate look as attached to the auger shaft . . . where should the rubber bumper be positioned . . . top left, bottom left, top right, bottom right, when looking at the rear of the Whitfield innards?

Thanks,

Fred

 

[Stovensen]

I do have the upgraded end plate installed with the rubber bumper. I also have the new Nylatron bearing installed with it. My auger motor is new, less than two years old and works fine, pellets drop as they are called from the control board.

Oh, I see. Well, since your stove is from 1992, the upper auger bearing could also be the culprit with excessive clearance making the noise.
Nylatron material is not an option there, since the heat would melt it instantly.

where should the rubber bumper be positioned . . . top left, bottom left, top right, bottom right, when looking at the rear of the Whitfield innards?

On a Whitfield the auger rotates counterclockwise, when looking from the rear, so the auger motor is forcing itself to rotate clockwise, when producing torgue. The rubber bumper should be positioned in the bottom right position. This way gravity also ( hopefully ) should keep the auger motor resting on the rubber bumper, when not energized.

 

[Two Flints]

Hi Stovensen,

Thanks again for your suggestions and information . . . plan to check out the auger set up tomorrow and see what I have there . . . maybe reposition the auger set up I have been using. I clean my Whitfield every day after letting it run from early PM then all night to the next morning and then do a good cleaning.

Was also thinking of adding a soft rubber piece where the auger motor seems to strike the shelf on the rotation it makes, just to damper the noise a bit. Whe I let the auger run with the back open I can see where it hits creating that "thump", but still not sure why it does it.

Thanks for your replies.

Fred

 

[Stovensen]

There is one suggestion, I forgot to mention: It could be the armature on the auger motor that is plunging up/down when energized/deenergized.
I remember that my first auger motor ( the original from 1998 ) made this characteristic plunging/thumping sound, whenever it was deenergized.
The electromechanical reason for this plunging movement in my first auger was simple: The armature had a huge of axial ( lengthwise ) play, so when it was stopped, gravity would pull it downwards, since the armature is pointing downwards. When energized, the electromagnetic force in the windings would pull the armature upwards. The moment power was cut, the armature would fall down with an audible thumping sound. A couple of nylon washers could have fixed this noise issue, but many of the gears were worn and noisy, so I had to replace it.
If your thumping sound is generated exactly at the end of each feed cycle, this could be the source of your noise issue. Easy to fix with some nylon washers.

 

[Two Flints]

Hate to bother you again . . . but where do I install (and how) the nylon washers? I have not heard the "thump" for several hours now, but when it does happen it will "thump" maybe two or three times and then not again for quite a while.

 

[Stovensen]

but where do I install (and how) the nylon washers?

Where the armature meets the bearing flange. On this pic from MButkus website we see it very clearly. The hardest part is to find some nylon washers of the right size. With the right size washers all you need to do is loosen the two screws and pull the bearing flange off, and then insert the washers.

I have not heard the "thump" for several hours now, but when it does happen it will "thump" maybe two or three times and then not again for quite a while.

If it is the armature plunging movement that is causing the noise issue, it has to be at the end of each feed cycle. Easy to observe with access to the rear of stove.
Note: Take care not to block the rotation of the armature by using too thick washers!

 

[Two Flints]

Thanks again. Will give it a try and look see tomorrow. Appreciate all your suggestions.

Will let you know and update when I solve the problem . . . I hope!

 

[MButkus]

The plastic bushing you show in the photo has to do with thunking noise. It is the wear of the washer in the back of the armature, causing the gear on the armature to slide back and start missing the teeth in the first gear of the auger. That causes missing feeds. The washer in back just pushed up the armature so the gears were always in contact with the teeth. Many years later the first gear wore out (other pictures on my website) and the auger stopped. I bought a cheap auger (had it on hand) and that lasted a whole year. The replacement was a quality $120 on and is going on many years. And it's absolutely quite too.

 

[Ssyko]

The washers can be had at your local hobbie shop. They use them on servo’s and hinge shims on RC planes. Cars,etc

 

[Two Flints]

Went from bad to worse.

I decide to install a new auger motor with the upgraded end plate. Both items are for the Whitfield Advantage II-T. I installed the end plate with the rubber plate located on the bottom right when looking at the rear end of the Whitfield.

Installed the auger motor. But the auger motor sticks out of the back of the Whitfield so installing the rear metal plate cover is not possible. If I turn the auger motor to allow me to install the rear metal plate cover - the auger motor will rotate and hit the plate cover - the "thud" sound?

Another problem, as the auger rotates the electric prongs on the auger will get caught on the fresh air intake shroud - and get bent or as just happened sparks will fly and I shorted out by display panel! I have a replacement control panel, installed it and back in business.

First question. Once installed why does the auger motor rotate? I thought only the spindle/shaft on the auger was supposed to rotate thus turning the auger and dropping pellets. Is my install of the auger motor wrong? Help. Been working on this for 6 hours now!

Fred

 

[Ssyko]

Lol Newton's third law is: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. that’s why it has a bump stop. You may have to install it so it will not make contact with anything but the bump stop, or wrap the air intake tube with rubber to insulate it from the contacts on the motor

 

[MButkus]

Is your auger installed correctly ? This is the way it should sit.

 

[Two Flints]

MButkus,

Very much appreciate posting that auger position photo. I think my "thumping" problem was because I did not install the shaft of the auger motor the right way into the auger shaft female hole. What happened was . . . the entire auger motor would rotate and come down on the air intake tube cover . . . at least that's what I'm suspecting was going on.

I installed a new auger motor and installed the original control panel (blew out the one I had been using when the electrical contacts hit the air intake tube cover) and made sure the set screw and collar were installed correctly.

Anyway, the Whitfield has been up and running for several days with the NEW installation and warming my home as expected. Great!

One question I still need answering - is the auger motor supposed to rotate, or does it just sit there in the same position, as in your photo, AND only the shaft rotates moving the pellet auger?

Thanks so much for your input and photo . . . very much appreciated

 

[Stovensen]

I think my "thumping" problem was because I did not install the shaft of the auger motor the right way into the auger shaft female hole. What happened was . . . the entire auger motor would rotate and come down on the air intake tube cover . . . at least that's what I'm suspecting was going on.

As you have experienced, It is important to insert the output shaft from the auger motor all the way in the auger shaft female hole. This is to ensure that the motor housing rests on the rest platform on the end plate, when producing torgue. As we know now, the upgraded end plate even has a rubber bumper on this platform to dampen the counter action from the working motor.
Otherwise the motor housing, when producing torgue, will miss the rest platform and hit the air intake with the spade connectors, thus making a short to the body of the stove. This is what happened to you. With a little luck it's only the fuse that got burned and not the auger triac on the control board.
Last year we had an forum member who experienced exactly the same with the auger in his Advantage II T stove. Unfortunately the auger triac got fried on his control board, but he managed to replace the triac and have his stove working again. Bugs is your stove still working? I hope so
Link to Bugs' thread:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/whitfield-died.164183/

One question I still need answering - is the auger motor supposed to rotate, or does it just sit there in the same position, as in your photo, AND only the shaft rotates moving the pellet auger?

Newton's third law of motion also applies for rotating mechanisms, not just linear motions. In a rotating mechanism it may not be as obvious, but let's keep it simple: When the auger motor turns the auger shaft counterclockwise ( looking from the rear ) with a certain torgue, the entire motor housing is forcing itself in the opposite ( clockwise ) direction with exactly the same torgue. If the motor is missing the rest platform on the end plate ( what you experienced ), it will keep on turning until it meets something that stops it. In your case the air intake.

The control board that got "fried" may only need a new fuse to be back and running again. I hope so. Otherwise you could study Bugs' thread via the link above to get some tips on how to repair your board ( very long thread! )

Good luck and take care. Keep us posted.

 

[Two Flints]

Hi Stovensen,

My Whitfield is NOW running just fine. I did install a NEW auger motor that I had purchased as a backup. I did short out the control board, and afterwards, I did install a new fuse, but that did not help at all. So I assumed the control board was dead. I re-installed the ORIGINAL control board that came with the Whitfield when I bought it, and everything started up OK.

The key for me was installing the NEW auger motor correctly. There has been NO "thumping" noise and the electrical contacts do not touch the air intake shroud, as what happed to cause the short to the controller in the first place.

I am at peace with my Whitfield My home is toasty warm. The control board is set on #2 and my home stays at a very comfortable 68 degrees. But, just in case, I've already purchased a new and improved controller and a new auger motor. Need them as backups, especially here in Northern Maine where Winters can get very, very cold.

Two Flints/Fred