Why no grill on my new fireplace?

[samhoff2]

Hello all,

This is my first post.

We are in the process of having a RSF Delta 2 fireplace installed. By the time it's all done, it will be a more than $10,000 project but we really look forward to burning wood for heat.

Last night I was looking over the instruction manual, and it has you build the fire directly on firebrick that is lining the box. It states, "Do NOT use a grill for the logs." Why is this? What harm could it do?

Also, the area I live has LOTS of coal. Many people I know place a fist-sized lump of coal in their fireplace at night, and in the morning there is still an ember to throw more logs on. Would there be a problem with me doing this? Specifically, would it break the firebrick or in some other way damage my fireplace?

Thanks in advance for the help,

Sam

 

[firefighterjake]

I don't use any coal . . . and after 7-8 hours of not tending the woodstove there is always several coals large enough to easily relight the stove after an overnight or overday fire.

As for a grill . . . I think you will find that most woodstoves actually do better with some ash and coals under the burning wood . . . both to help insulate the radiant heat going downward and to help preserve the coals.

 

[Fsappo]

The way the air flows thru an EPA Certified stove means that a grill or grate will do nothing more than take up valuble firebox space and possibly cause an over fire.

In regards to the coal, in the real world ONE fist sized lump on a wood fire shouldnt hurt anything.

In the black and white world, you dont burn coal in a stove designed to only burn wood.

In My world I've done it once in a while, and like Jake says, with a decent stove, you wake up to a good bed of coals either way. Your RSF is at the least a VERY decent stove.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Franks got it right I think. (Hi Franks) A grill holds the wood up to get air under it. Your system is already designed to burn efficiently.

 

[Milton Findley]

I had a neighbor who used to steal coal from my pile and put it in his wood stove. He did that until he put the coal on a cool pile of coals and it filled the stove with gas, which then ignited. I would like to say that the chimney left the premises like a Saturn 5, but it didn't. It simply split all the pipes, and blew the cap off. It did fill his house with a lot of soot.

 

[firefighterjake]

I had a neighbor who used to steal coal from my pile and put it in his wood stove. He did that until he put the coal on a cool pile of coals and it filled the stove with gas, which then ignited. I would like to say that the chimney left the premises like a Saturn 5, but it didn't. It simply split all the pipes, and blew the cap off. It did fill his house with a lot of soot.

And I bet this truly made your day . . . sometimes karma is very sweet.

 

[samhoff2]

Update:

My first fire this evening, because I wanted a small one (since they say sometimes there are smells).

Observations:
I put in a little bit of wood (the size of 4 medium size books--scrap wood--over kindling), and it is burning and burning and burning. I presume this is because the delta is somehow really limiting the air getting to it, which makes for longer burn times?

There is a lever that I am supposed to use to control (open/close) the damper, and at this point it doesn't fully actuate the lever that it is hooked to up high... I think this means it is fully closed but not getting fully open (in fact, I moved the lever to close, and the fire died in about 20 seconds time). Presumably I call the guy that installed it and ask him to fix?

Lastly, the fan that is supposed to turn on when the stove gets hot enough is not turning on. I presume this is also something for the guy that installed the stove.

Other than those two minor issues, the fire is blazing away and I look forward to a lot of nice fires this winter!

Oh and I'm headed to a downed tree in the mountains on Saturday to get a pickup and trailer full of wood....

As always I welcome any comments,

Sam

 

[North of 60]

You probably have not got the stove up to temp yet to actuate the snap disc. It can take up to an hour of a good fire after a cold start.
It takes a good while for the heat to migrate to the back base of the stove/insert. Congratulations on your 1st $10,000 fire.
The next one will be almost free. ;-)
Cheers

 

[samhoff2]

Wow! One hour? Really? Because there's quite a bit of heat coming off the front for sure!

We'll see when I get a bigger fire going.

Here's a pic by the way...

Sam

 

[North of 60]

Wow! One hour? Really? Because there's quite a bit of heat coming off the front for sure!

We'll see when I get a bigger fire going.

Here's a pic by the way...

Sam

Heat goes out and up. Your snap disc is at the back.
Its looking really good by the way.

 

[nate379]

Surprised all that wood is allowed to be so close to your wood burner. OSB floor, 2x4 framing close to the sides and pipe.

 

[North of 60]

Surprised all that wood is allowed to be so close to your wood burner. OSB floor, 2x4 framing close to the sides and pipe.

All the stand offs are built in except the hearth loading extension. They can be framed in with anything as long as the stand offs are not tampered with. Here is the manual...........
(broken link removed to http://www.icc-rsf.com/c/icc/file_db/maindocs_e/RSF-IID2_2007-01.pdf)

 

[samhoff2]

Yes... thus the name "zero clearance." Because they can be right next to wood. I was very impressed with how hot the front of the stove was last night (no way I could touch it with my hand), and then I put my hand on the sides, top, and back, and they still all felt very cool to the touch. So they insulate these puppies well.

Another disappointment (question) is that my glass is all fogged over this AM after last night's fire. Is this something that will burn off when I start my next fire?

At some point I will post more pics, including the entire work in progress and the finished product.

Thanks,

Sam

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Welcome to the forum Sam.

It should burn off with your next fire but part of that is dependent upon your fuel. Also, when we did the burn-in fires for our last stove the glass turned black. That was using wood that was probably 5 years in the stack. But then when we built a bigger fire the glass just cleaned itself.

Don't forget you need to put as much or more emphasis on your fuel as with the stove. One can't just cut some wood and throw it in the stove. Better to cut the wood, wait a year and then put it in the stove.

 

[samhoff2]

The wood I'm using is mostly elm that has been down for about 2.5 years, in big rounds. I spent evenings this summer chopping it into smaller pieces. I assume this will be sufficiently seasoned?

I am starting a new thread on a separate subject (convection of the pipe in the bedroom) if any of you want to offer your $0.02 there also (please?)....

Thanks,

Sam

 

[firefighterjake]

The wood I'm using is mostly elm that has been down for about 2.5 years, in big rounds. I spent evenings this summer chopping it into smaller pieces. I assume this will be sufficiently seasoned?

I am starting a new thread on a separate subject (convection of the pipe in the bedroom) if any of you want to offer your $0.02 there also (please?)....

Thanks,

Sam

The elm may be OK . . . especially if you split it up in the earlier part of Summer. In my first year of burning I had some standing dead elm that had been dead for a number of years (most were stripped clean of the bark) and I ended up bucking them up and splitting them in late Spring/early Summer and the wood was OK -- at the time I thought it was very good wood but in Year 2 after burning wood that had been cut, bucked, split and stacked for a year I realized that the wood was in reality only OK and not fantastic wood. I suspect you will be able to get by -- may have some spitters and hissers . . . having some pallets on hand to help get the fire going may help . . . but I suspect you will be fine. Just be sure to check your chimney more frequently -- at least once a month.

 

[samhoff2]

I'm sorry, I just wanted to ask one more question: if I put a small lump of coal in the firebox, on the red-hot ash from the wood, is there any danger of the coal getting so hot that it will crack or otherwise damage the firebrick? Thanks!

Sam

 

[BrotherBart]

No.

But when you do what I know you will do next, all hell will break lose.

 

[pen]

I'm sorry, I just wanted to ask one more question: if I put a small lump of coal in the firebox, on the red-hot ash from the wood, is there any danger of the coal getting so hot that it will crack or otherwise damage the firebrick? Thanks!

Sam

It's about like asking the doc if one cigarette a day will kill you.

pen

 

[begreen]

Yes... thus the name "zero clearance." Because they can be right next to wood. I was very impressed with how hot the front of the stove was last night (no way I could touch it with my hand), and then I put my hand on the sides, top, and back, and they still all felt very cool to the touch. So they insulate these puppies well.

Another disappointment (question) is that my glass is all fogged over this AM after last night's fire. Is this something that will burn off when I start my next fire?

At some point I will post more pics, including the entire work in progress and the finished product.

Thanks,

Sam

The Delta still requires a non-combustible hearth extension a minimum of 8" to the sides and 16" in front of the door including a 2.5" spark guard under the stove and extending under the tiles of the hearth. Is this going to be installed before burning?

 

[samhoff2]

The Delta still requires a non-combustible hearth extension a minimum of 8" to the sides and 16" in front of the door including a 2.5" spark guard under the stove and extending under the tiles of the hearth. Is this going to be installed before burning?

Hmmm. Technically, yes. However my contractor working on this has been moving as slow as molasses (see my build pictures here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/79005/ I posted that last picture 11 days again, no change yet.

So I do burn fires in it (rarely, when it's cool enough). He is going to put rock work down on the ledge there in front of the door to 16". Now, I don't know what the 2.5" spark guard is... please help with that?

Also, to be clear, the reason I don't want to put in "too much" coal is because it will heat the box up too much and melt it. Right?

Sam

 

[begreen]

So I do burn fires in it (rarely, when it's cool enough). He is going to put rock work down on the ledge there in front of the door to 16". Now, I don't know what the 2.5" spark guard is... please help with that?

The spark guard is covered on page 18 of the manual. It is required on combustible hearth surfaces. The purpose is to create an ember barrier under the fireplace between it and the hearth.

 

[maverick06]

Hello all,

"Do NOT use a grill for the logs."

Yep, thats how it is. I still usually prop the wood up on a small piece of wood to give about an inch of clearance underneath. Sometimes I will just push the ash to the sides for a little channel.

Depending on how air goes into the fireplace, you might find that to be useful. Without it, my fireplace has a much harder time to get going.