Why not to angle your back cut?

[AbeAinPa]

I've seen it stated several times that when felling a tree the back cut should be made horizontal and not angled, but I've never seen it written as to why. Anyone got the answer on that one?

 

[Cowboy Billy]

I heard that under some circumstances it can cause the tree to jump up kinda like having a ramp rather than fall off the back. I don't know but I haven't tried it either.

Billy

 

[ANeat]

Im just a rank beginner but its my understanding that the whole tree felling thing is utilizing the hinge of wood left in the cut to guide the fall of the tree.

The angled back cuts apparently reduce the effectivness of the hinge.

I cant say exactly why but the guys who know what they are doing dont do it.

 

[jeff_t]

What Billy says makes sense. I've seen stumps that were cut that way, but I've never thought that much about it. Not how I was taught.

 

[Got Wood]

I can tell ya why based on experience.... Was cutting a about an 10" diameter trunk, made my notch then did NOT make a horizontal back cut - my back cut was angled down. what happened was the trunk instead of tipping the direction I wanted it too, slid down the back cut and notch, and ended up hinging the wrong way and fell directly backward knocking my in the head. Luckily it was a glancing blow and I was not injured but I learned my lesson.

 

[rottiman]

I can tell ya why based on experience.... Was cutting a about an 10" diameter trunk, made my notch then did NOT make a horizontal back cut - my back cut was angled down. what happened was the trunk instead of tipping the direction I wanted it too, slid down the back cut and notch, and ended up hinging the wrong way and fell directly backward knocking my in the head. Luckily it was a glancing blow and I was not injured but I learned my lesson.

A good lesson for all of us..................................................Glad your headshot was minor.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

I always put a slight down angle (down towards the center) in my back cuts and I'll tell you why.
I use to believe a horizontal cut was the safer way and did it that way until once when I was cutting about a 20" diameter tree who's branches were touching the branches of trees around it. I knew this tree would probably resist falling because of the other branches, but I had my wedges ready. Icut my wedge and cut the (horizontal) back cut down to what I figured was a good hinge and started pounding my plastic wedge in. It didn't go, so I cut a little more out of the back cut, and pounded some more. I buried the plastic wedge and it still didn't want to go over, I didn't want to cut any more because my hinge was already very thin so I took a steel splitter and started driving that in the back cut. I started to see that back cut open up I gave it one last pound and CRACK!, the hinge snapped right off and the tree slid backward along the horizontal cut. popped of the trunk and buried itself in the ground on my side of the trunk an inch from my foot, and proceeded to fall in the correct direction. I had no time at all to react, it was sure luck that it missed my foot.
Had I put a slight angle (down towards the center of the tree) on the back cut there is no way the tree could have slid UP and over the back cut and landed on my side of the trunk.

Got Wood, it sounds like you put the ANGLE (up towards the center). A tree can still fall over backwards even with a horizontal back cut if it's leaning the wrong way.

 

[Danno77]

that doesn't make sense to me. if it ended up badly then your angled cut was angled in a direction that went below the notch (or you didn't check the direction the tree was going naturally). If you aim your angle at the same spot a horizontal cut would be aimed at then I don't see why it wouldn't work the same.

 

[burntime]

That does it for me...no more angle hinges...

 

[Danno77]

CL, I didn't see your post when I hit reply. You make a good point. angle must be downward towards the notch. I assumed that was a given, but it should be said to clarify.

 

[TreePointer]

You want to control how much holding wood you have in the hinge. More experienced cutters may even want to have the holding wood narrower on one side than the other side. This is a lot more difficult to perform with an angled backcut.

Also, think about the grain of the wood and how it can split along that grain. A backcut that cross-cuts the wood grain at a 90 degree angle can better handle the pushing froces of the felling wedge by essentially having them pushing in the direction of the grain.

When a wedge is inserted in an angled backcut, the sides of the wedge will apply force in a direction that can cause wood to splinter with the grain (similar to a barber chair, but in the stump section of the tree). This can happen even if you don't use a wedge--think about the forces on the stump portion of the tree if the tree happens to fall back on the backcut.

The bottom line is that you want to have as much control as possible when felling a tree.

 

[Got Wood]

I always put a slight down angle (down towards the center) in my back cuts and I'll tell you why.
I use to believe a horizontal cut was the safer way and did it that way until once when I was cutting about a 20" diameter tree who's branches were touching the branches of trees around it. I knew this tree would probably resist falling because of the other branches, but I had my wedges ready. Icut my wedge and cut the (horizontal) back cut down to what I figured was a good hinge and started pounding my plastic wedge in. It didn't go, so I cut a little more out of the back cut, and pounded some more. I buried the plastic wedge and it still didn't want to go over, I didn't want to cut any more because my hinge was already very thin so I took a steel splitter and started driving that in the back cut. I started to see that back cut open up I gave it one last pound and CRACK!, the hinge snapped right off and the tree slid backward along the horizontal cut. popped of the trunk and buried itself in the ground on my side of the trunk an inch from my foot, and proceeded to fall in the correct direction. I had no time at all to react, it was sure luck that it missed my foot.
Had I put a slight angle (down towards the center of the tree) on the back cut there is no way the tree could have slid UP and over the back cut and landed on my side of the trunk.

Got Wood, it sounds like you put the ANGLE (up towards the center). A tree can still fall over backwards even with a horizontal back cut if it's leaning the wrong way.

My back cut was angled down, I believe (now) at too steep an angle. I was also attempting to drop the trunk in its natural direction.

 

[Danno77]

TreePointer, you make a great point about the downfalls of using a wedge on an angled back-cut.

 

[AbeAinPa]

I see this is perhaps not as clear cut (no pun intended) as I thought it might be. I have always put a slight downward angle on my back cut so when I saw it referred to as incorrect, I really wanted to know why. There are a couple of good points each way here so perhaps this is one of those, "it depend" answers. I can see where if you're going to use a wedge a horizontal back cut makes sense, but in the case where a tree is almost definitely going to fall where you want it, perhaps a angled back cut works just as well and perhaps even supplies an extra margin of safety. Thanks for all the input.

 

[Cowboy Billy]

With a angled back cut easier to miss the hinge going above or below it or even above on one side and below on the other. But I have heard of using a angled back cut on smaller trees so the back cut is longer and gives more room to get a wedge in. But as my usual method of felling is pushing the tree over with a dozer I can't comment on that.

Billy

 

[oldspark]

I see this is perhaps not as clear cut (no pun intended) as I thought it might be. I have always put a slight downward angle on my back cut so when I saw it referred to as incorrect, I really wanted to know why. There are a couple of good points each way here so perhaps this is one of those, "it depend" answers. I can see where if you're going to use a wedge a horizontal back cut makes sense, but in the case where a tree is almost definitely going to fall where you want it, perhaps a angled back cut works just as well and perhaps even supplies an extra margin of safety. Thanks for all the input.

If I remember correctly the slightly angled back cut is the way they recomended it years ago, I do not think a very slight downward back cut is a problem

 

[CJRages]

I have been pondering this question since the weekend before last... I helped a man from our church clear a wooded area near his home. He used this angled back-cut exclusively... Here is a cross-forum link... I think it does a good job of describing the physics at work.

http://www.treeworld.info/f9/angled-back-cut-backcut-tree-felling-1559.html

 

[oldspark]

I have been pondering this question since the weekend before last... I helped a man from our church clear a wooded area near his home. He used this angled back-cut exclusively... Here is a cross-forum link... I think it does a good job of describing the physics at work.

http://www.treeworld.info/f9/angled-back-cut-backcut-tree-felling-1559.html

Thats some very good info, but the angle of the back cut is much more severe that what I remember being recomended, just a slight downward angle is what I use, never had a problem but then again that could have been luck.

 

[Danno77]

nice link, but I guess I'm still fuzzy on why it's BAD to do an angled cut. They disprove why people think it's better, i get that. Just seems like it doesn't work any worse if you do it right, so why all the hubbub?

 

[CJRages]

"If you do it right." That is part of the problem. As was mentioned by Cowboy Billy... it is easier to mess up the cut.

Secondly even with a correctly placed cut you lose some(but to what extent I'm not sure) control of the tree. Obviously the reason for creating a hinge is to control as much as possible the direction of the fall. According to the other thread/site the hinge with an angled back cut has more horizontal snapping stress and less vertical "stretch" stress within the structure of the tree. A better chance that the tree could snap/barber chair or roll/slide.

 

[mtcates]

You want to control how much holding wood you have in the hinge. More experienced cutters may even want to have the holding wood narrower on one side than the other side. This is a lot more difficult to perform with an angled backcut.

Also, think about the grain of the wood and how it can split along that grain. A backcut that cross-cuts the wood grain at a 90 degree angle can better handle the pushing froces of the felling wedge by essentially having them pushing in the direction of the grain.

When a wedge is inserted in an angled backcut, the sides of the wedge will apply force in a direction that can cause wood to splinter with the grain (similar to a barber chair, but in the stump section of the tree). This can happen even if you don't use a wedge--think about the forces on the stump portion of the tree if the tree happens to fall back on the backcut.

The bottom line is that you want to have as much control as possible when felling a tree.

Its funny reading this because before I did tree work as a professional I actually cut my back cuts this way. I sometimes angled them also. It gives the allusion of steering the tree but it really only makes it more likely that you loose control. I bought a book on professional timber falling by Douglas Dent and learned the right way to do it.

I've been doing tree work for over 20 years professionally and you are exactly right in this post. It was in the book. An angled back cut serves no positive purpose but it does have the negatives that TreePointer stated. There is no need to angle the back cut at all. It serves no purpose. You should not only make the back cut perfectly level but make it 2 inches higher than the hinge. It leaves a 2 inch step (Its called Stump Shot) to prevent the tree from sliding back when the hinge breaks. Another thing is to cut as wide a notch as you can. The hinge stays connected until the notch closes. At the very least take out a 45 degree notch. If you make a 90 degree notch the tree is on the ground when the notch closes and gives the ultimate in control.

 

[TreePointer]

nice link, but I guess I'm still fuzzy on why it's BAD to do an angled cut. They disprove why people think it's better, i get that. Just seems like it doesn't work any worse if you do it right, so why all the hubbub?

I'm sure there are many people who have used angled backcuts for years without incident, but the problem is that felling trees is inherently dangerous, no matter what technique is used. The hububb is all about using the safest technique possible (within reason).

Can a person operate a chainsaw without chaps? Of course he can, but it's not the safest practice. The one time he really needs them could be fatal.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

You want to control how much holding wood you have in the hinge. More experienced cutters may even want to have the holding wood narrower on one side than the other side. This is a lot more difficult to perform with an angled backcut.

Also, think about the grain of the wood and how it can split along that grain. A backcut that cross-cuts the wood grain at a 90 degree angle can better handle the pushing froces of the felling wedge by essentially having them pushing in the direction of the grain.

When a wedge is inserted in an angled backcut, the sides of the wedge will apply force in a direction that can cause wood to splinter with the grain (similar to a barber chair, but in the stump section of the tree). This can happen even if you don't use a wedge--think about the forces on the stump portion of the tree if the tree happens to fall back on the backcut.

The bottom line is that you want to have as much control as possible when felling a tree.

Its funny reading this because before I did tree work as a professional I actually cut my back cuts this way. I sometimes angled them also. It gives the allusion of steering the tree but it really only makes it more likely that you loose control. I bought a book on professional timber falling by Douglas Dent and learned the right way to do it.

I've been doing tree work for over 20 years professionally and you are exactly right in this post. It was in the book. An angled back cut serves no positive purpose but it does have the negatives that TreePointer stated. There is no need to angle the back cut at all. It serves no purpose. You should not only make the back cut perfectly level but make it 2 inches higher than the hinge. It leaves a 2 inch step (Its called Stump Shot) to prevent the tree from sliding back when the hinge breaks. Another thing is to cut as wide a notch as you can. The hinge stays connected until the notch closes. At the very least take out a 45 degree notch. If you make a 90 degree notch the tree is on the ground when the notch closes and gives the ultimate in control.

Actually I already stated a positive in my previous post. I nearly lost my foot because the tree was able to slide backwards off the trunk when the hinge broke prematurely while I was pounding a steel wedge in the straight (not angled) back cut.
Had I angled the back cut (even slightly) the tree base could not have slid backwards ,up and over, the angle when the hinge broke.
Obviously the hinge was cut to thin, but that's not the point, the point is that a (slightly) angled back cut has a "positive" safety feature when other things go wrong. And as long as one remembers that there is a "negative" by cutting at too much of an angle I believe a slight angle is a good thing, and I will continue to put a slight angle in my back cuts.

 

[golfandwoodnut]

When I first started cutting trees I angled the back cut because I thought I was steering the tree. As I learned I now use a straight cut. Never had problems either way but it is logical it is easier to control where you approach the hinge when you come in straight. On an angle you have to time it just right. Also you should not cut the whole way through, the tree should be falling within 2 inches of the hinge or you probably are cutting it from the wrong side. However once I cut a large Oak the whole way through and it would not fall (near to the house I might add). I stuck a pry bar in the back cut, and it still would not budge. Fortuneatly the wind took care of it while I went back to the house to have a beer and think about my predicament. It ended up falling right where I planned, after much hesitation.

 

[Mike PA]

Actually I already stated a positive in my previous post. I nearly lost my foot because the tree was able to slide backwards off the trunk when the hinge broke prematurely while I was pounding a steel wedge in the straight (not angled) back cut.
Had I angled the back cut (even slightly) the tree base could not have slid backwards ,up and over, the angle when the hinge broke.
Obviously the hinge was cut to thin, but that's not the point, the point is that a (slightly) angled back cut has a "positive" safety feature when other things go wrong. And as long as one remembers that there is a "negative" by cutting at too much of an angle I believe a slight angle is a good thing, and I will continue to put a slight angle in my back cuts.[/quote]

The point here really is that you made the hinge too thin and broke it off by pounding in the wedge. Also, the wedge may have been too thick to be effective, whihc may have also led to the failure. An angled back cut may have caused the tree to land entirely different, but with no better or more predictable results. The problem wasn't the angle, it was the hinge.

This brings up another issue on why a horizontal cut is best - all of the force applied with a wedge should goe to lifting the tree. With an angled cut, a portion of the force goes more in the horizontal, increasing the chances of breaking the hinge prematurely. Conversely, an angled cut with a wedge applies force to a narrow area on the stump and applies force away from the stump, possibly casuing the stump to split or fail below the wedge and loosing control of the tree. As someone else stated, it is easier to make a mistake with an angled backcut and getting below the felling notch.