Winding Down? A Mid-Winter’s Tale...

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Peter B.

Feeling the Heat
Feb 27, 2008
453
SW Wisconsin
The thread title may be misleading... the weather here is nearly as trying as other parts of the country about now, and the stove is still fired every day.

But this year, after living for twenty five years without a thermostat, I bought myself a wall mount propane heater to provide (some) backup heat. Ironically, the heater is 'undersized' (at 30K BTU) and only running continuously can it come (even) close to meeting demand... even in milder (>20*) weather. So I use it almost exclusively to maintain indoor temps overnight to 50*... which is an unaccustomed luxury for me.

Anticipating use of the furnace as supplementary heat, I cut back my purchase of firewood last fall.

But last year's 'crop' of wood (from the same supplier I've used for years) wasn't as well seasoned as usual, and even though I had some drier wood left from the previous year, I'm afraid I burned 'stupid' for most of the season... failing to mix the two for best effect... and have nearly exhausted the greener wood.

Meanwhile, the stove I've burned in for the last twenty five years (and more) is showing its age. Twenty years ago, I rebuilt it and incorporated some modifications which substantially improved its efficiency, though not to the level of modern EPA stoves. Included were some baffles and an internal catalyst and - by and large - the stove burned pretty dam clean, seldom smoking once a good fire was established and the catalyst engaged.

The stove is still quite sound, but the modifications I made are pretty much in tatters now after twenty winters of use. Variously, the component parts are warped, broken, burnt and oxidized, etc.

My inclination at this point would be to (finally) break down and buy an EPA stove and drop it into place where the old stove sits now, but...

'This Old House' is in need of an 'Extreme Makeover'. Extreme enough that I'm contemplating moving into a trailer home or the (white elephant) garage I had built a couple of years ago, and abandoning the existing house to the elements.

Even if I choose to limp the house along for another few years, the foundation and floor joists immediately below the hearth are 'precarious' to the point that a heavier stove (as would likely be my choice) probably shouldn't be risked.

So... I'm thinking this _may_ be my last year burning wood... or at least the last for a year or more to come... until I figure out what manner of 'palace' I'll be inhabiting next.

Though I'd like to put the old stove through another round of rebuilding, refinements and a glass door with an airwash, I doubt that's likely at this point.

Anyone here know how to make a quick and dirty repair to a failing stone foundation?

Wherever I end up, I hope I might yet be able to spend a couple of seasons burning a stove with a 'window'... and a spectacular secondary show.

But 'you can't always get what you want'.

Peter B.

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Peter B. said:
'This Old House' is in need of an 'Extreme Makeover'. Extreme enough that I'm contemplating moving into a trailer home or the (white elephant) garage I had built a couple of years ago, and abandoning the existing house to the elements.

As an owner of an old house, that statement depressed me.
 
BrowningBAR said:
Peter B. said:
'This Old House' is in need of an 'Extreme Makeover'. Extreme enough that I'm contemplating moving into a trailer home or the (white elephant) garage I had built a couple of years ago, and abandoning the existing house to the elements.

As an owner of an old house, that statement depressed me.

Can't say I'm real happy about it either, but I guess I can fault myself in part.

The house is by no means a 'refined' example of a small mid western farmhouse, but it has some endearing quirks.

It was not exactly a creampuff when I bought it, and I have neglected it lo, these past twenty years for reasons I won't bother to go into.

Now, I'm wishing I'd at least kept after it in terms of 'damage control'. I may yet opt for something of the sort, but restoration of the house - or even bringing it up to a 'polite' level of repair - is out of the question.

Peter B.

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Peter B. said:
The thread title may be misleading... the weather here is nearly as trying as other parts of the country about now, and the stove is still fired every day.
....
Anyone here know how to make a quick and dirty repair to a failing stone foundation?
....
Peter B.

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Dig a new footing 1' from the existing stone foundation and install adjustable columns every 4' with a beam spanning the joists. Beam should be similar structure to existing main beam or built up from two 2x12s sandwiched with 3/4" cdx, glued and screwed, staggered joints with a support under each joint.

Then fix the water issues cause the stonework to fail or just keep the insurance premiums up to date

Aaron
 
Aaron Pasteris said:
Peter B. said:
The thread title may be misleading... the weather here is nearly as trying as other parts of the country about now, and the stove is still fired every day.
....
Anyone here know how to make a quick and dirty repair to a failing stone foundation?
....
Peter B.

-----

Dig a new footing 1' from the existing stone foundation and install adjustable columns every 4' with a beam spanning the joists. Beam should be similar structure to existing main beam or built up from two 2x12s sandwiched with 3/4" cdx, glued and screwed, staggered joints with a support under each joint.

Then fix the water issues cause the stonework to fail or just keep the insurance premiums up to date

Aaron


Aaron:

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm afraid this is not a typical situation.

Years ago (before my time), a crawl space beneath part of the house was partially excavated... and then never shored up properly. Areas of the basement walls are layered limestone, other areas are just soil. The walls are irregular - both horizontally and vertically. The floor is more limestone. There's scarcely a straight line or right angle in the whole basement.

Some sections of the original footings have already caved into the basement. Hay bales now keep the weather out in spots. It's all a pretty sorry mess.

I've toyed with the idea of mostly filling the space with gravel... then pumping concrete to fill the remaining void. That would permanently 'entomb' some plumbing and wiring, but I'm not sure it really matters. Alternatively, I've thought of using foam insulation as the top layer, figuring it has at least some compressive strength and 'presence' which might keep things stable for a while... and would insulate the unheated mass below.

I recently tried to insure the house after a number of years doing without. For whatever reason, the agent and a company rep stopped out to have a look. I got a letter several days later saying they'd be unable to insure it owing to the condition of the house. They never saw the basement, just walked around the house outside.

The foundation is just one on a list of major repairs the house needs... or 'could use'. If I can figure a way to half ass the foundation, I may go ahead and half ass the rest.

I don't mind living rough, I just don't want the living room to cave in unexpectedly.

Again, thank you.

--

Knowing full well this isn't an appropriate forum for it, other suggestions for 'fixing' the basement are welcome.

Peter B.

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I’ve toyed with the idea of mostly filling the space with gravel… then pumping concrete to fill the remaining void. That would permanently ‘entomb’ some plumbing and wiring, but I’m not sure it really matters.

CLOSE, but this isn't quite how they do it. My mother in law has a shorehouse, and like the parabal, it's built on sand. The way they fix a house literally sinking into the ground is by adding pilings to it. They take house jacks (20+ tons a pop) and they put a sacraficial board under it. They also put one (2x4 or whatever) on top so where it touches the wooden joists it doesn't bite into them. They raise the entire house up on these things to take the pressure off the existing footers. This lets them either recast around them or pour new ones.

They must have had 50 of these things at least and they went inside and leveled the floors so they knew which ones had to be cast higher or lower, etc. After I saw how it worked I was like "gee I could do that". I wouldn't have 50 jacks so the work would be really slow, but there's no reason you couldn't buy one or two jacks from home depot and, starting from the outside and working in, place the jack, level the house, bring the joist up 1/8th of an inch, put a concrete form under there and cast a piling. Let it cure, put a shim in there if you need to take up any space, drop the jack, move over four feet.... you get the idea. Rebar or wire mesh is going to be your friend, it's going to make sure if the concrete cracks it's got something holding it together.

I really couldn't imagine the time commitment but it's not insurmountable. Use the extra concerete to seal the foundation as much as possible.
 
tiber:

Thank you as well for your suggestion...

With or without photos, it's probably impossible to visualize the situation. Only an in-person viewing is likely to get the point across. However, I don't want to seem like I'm discarding any suggestion out of hand.

Unfortunately, where one might need 'terra firma' as a base for jacking the house, there is none. In some places, there is simply a complete void where the footing was. In those spots, the sills span remaining bits of the footing... with all of nothing below. What's more, the basement floor is uneven... and curretly covered with debris from the footing cave-ins.

--

I tried to 'research' a jet-crete/shotcrete/gunnite option, and on another forum tossed that idea out for consideration... but didn't get much in the way of approval for it. I couldn't get an answer out of anyone whether jet-crete could fill substantial voids if applied and built up... as generously as necessary.

Perhaps I should get a contractor who's open to 'wild card' solutions to help me brainstorm.

When all is said and done, I'm trying to _avoid_ the proper fix... because it's likely to cost far more than the house will ever (again) be worth.

Peter B.

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How much height do you have?

with plenty of rebar and some 12" boards carved out around stone outcroppings, pour a concrete footing in place and use cement blocks to build a wall to the joists.
Once you have the block wall done fill the space between the block and foundation with concrete.

Picking up a house is an expensive option but I have poured a full foundation under an existing house before - not easy work but definitely can be done.

Aaron
 
Aaron:

I will think about your suggestion... thanks again.

When I first bought this place, I was twenty years younger, in a lot better shape physically (and emotionally) and had a (hell of a) lot more energy. I originally figured I'd build very stout stay-in-place heavily braced wood forms around the inner perimeter of the basement, and pour or pump concrete to fill the space between the forms and the (irregular) walls.

Long story short, my plans for the property were trashed early on in my residence here, and I've been asleep at the wheel ever since.

Meanwhile, the house has only been deteriorating, and...

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BeGreen:

Interesting coincidence.

I wish this house was worth investing in.

Continuing the story from above (and omitting a lot of detail), my property is five acres entirely surrounded by a neighbor's property. Same neighbor stiffed me on a promise to sell me some of his adjoining land twenty years ago, severely limiting what I had in mind for the whole.

The five acres I own has no resale value other than as a building site. The first thing a buyer would do is raze the house. Any money put toward improvements will be effectively wasted, so I'm trying to figure out the least expensive means by which I can live here til I sell out or croak.

All that said, it may be easier to understand why I'm interested in quick and dirty rather than 'proper'.

--

My original post was probably not real appropriate to this forum, and it has now digressed considerably. Please move the thread if you think it should be elsewhere.

Thanks.

Peter B.

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Hard to abandon the house. If its worth it then its worth it, but your trepidation to invest money that may not work I can understand. You may be more comfortable long-term in a trailer, but my experience is they're not that great, and hard to heat.

Right now there's a yurt for sale on Craigslist for 15k with a lot of nice features AND a modern stove.... http://nh.craigslist.org/for/2190742843.html

I'm telling you I would move to that in a second if I could get away from here. I'm still thinking about it, maybe move my mother in there...
 
btuser:

Thanks... but something suggests to me I'm not a yurt kind of guy.

And the local zoning folk have their radar tuned to me at present (sadly), so I think it might be a tough sell.

Peter B.

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