Winning!... I just got a propane delivery

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CtPaul

Burning Hunk
Sep 16, 2011
140
CT
I just got an auto fill on my propane tanks. They use a program to guestimate when I will need a fill. It uses number of heating days (outside temperature adjusted), equipment installed,and usage history. In the past it has been pretty accurate. I have been tweaking/cranking the pellet stove more this season and it is paying off. Total delivery yesterday 22.3 gallons (I have 2- 120gallon tanks) So my tanks were still at 70+% they top them off at 80%.==c:)

Keep in mind this is with 3 girls in an old drafty lake house ...they like it warm!
My goal this winter is to install the OAK (this week?) ,tighten up the house and install insulation in the attic. I have R-19 at best in the attic!! :eek:
 
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Stop the auto fill. Wait till you get the bill for the delivery charge since you did not take minimum amount of fuel.

Eric
 
I will stop the auto fill if that is the case. I am friends with management guy at oil/propane company, sometimes I get a break on those charges. I'm just happy to see some measurable results in my recent efforts!
 
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I'm just happy to see some measurable results in my recent efforts!

Nice. Let 'em eat the propane and oil! I'll burn anything but.
 
DOOOOD- wait until you add insulation to your attic- you are going to be sooo impressed with the difference. :) :)
 
like others have said, watch out because your per gallon price will be going up.

I had a 1000 gallon underground tank and when I got a wood boiler my yearly usage went down to 300 gallons. Any usage less than 500 gallons and I got wacked with a "rental fee" . Probably not the case here, but just food for thought on any one going with propane.
 
We have natural gas with a furnace in town, but we too have LP at our river house. The builder had a rental tank placed, which transferred to us. We didn't purchase the tank on transfer because we had no idea how much propane we'd use in a heating season, or in the "propane calendar year," which as I recall runs from July 1 to June 30th. (I think. I'd have to dig into my notes to confirm. But you get the idea.)

We have a heat pump with a back up LP gas furnace that kicks in automatically below a certain temperature. We also have a gas range (cooking stove) and a Rinnai gas fired on demand water heater. No pellet stove nor supplemental heat system at the river house (yet.)

After a year of usage, including winter (and we were there for several weekends during the winter as well) we had not used enough propane to offset the tank rental fee. Our annual tank rental fee was more than we paid for the November and January auto-fills combined. Last year we spent $215 on two auto-fill deliveries. At the end of the "propane year" our tank rental alone was going to be $319, with no propane included in that tank rental price.

We negotiated with the propane company, traded in the rental tank, purchased a much larger 500 gallon tank that will accommodate a whole house generator (when that time comes, we aren't ready to spring the $ for that yet) and purchased a complete fill for the larger tank.

The LP company purged the rental tank, recovered the propane, and credited us for the propane remaining in the rental tank. They also waived our tank rental fee for the previous year, since we were right on the spot with buying a tank and filling it before the tank rental fee was due.

It cost us about $2500 for the complete conversion: labor, tank, two regulators, plus the difference between the gas we'd already purchased in the rental tank and the gas we bought to fill the larger tank that we now own. We received the following benefits for the tank purchase and fill: 1. our price per gallon for LP gas will forever be at a slightly lower rate because our propane company offers a discounted rate to people who buy their tanks, 2. our price per gallon for the propane we purchased to fill the 500 gallon tank was further discounted because we bought a large volume of propane at one time, and 3. the price for our next auto-fill is based on our "historical usage," and because our "historical usage" is now that larger volume purchase, our next immediate auto-fill purchases will also be at that rate.

We can expect *next* season's price per gallon to increase slightly because obviously, we aren't going to buy that volume of propane *this* year- so this year's usage will be next year's history, and it won't be as volume impressive.

But, we won't have to pay a tank rental fee, ever.

The 500 gallon tank costs were as follows:
$1650 for the tank itself
120 for two regulators
89 labor
88.50 sales tax
---------------------------------
$1947.50

Looks like we'll recoup this expenditure in about 6 years, assuming that tank rental fees stay at their present rates.

The remaining balance of our ~$2500 expense was $537.17 for the additional propane (400 gallon for a 500 gallon tank/80% fill minus 211 gallon credit for propane purged and recovered from rental tank.)

YMMV- hope it helps!
 
when you own your own tank you can call around for best price...just keep your receipt of tank on hand if you are questioned about tank ownership.
 
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I just got an auto fill on my propane tanks. They use a program to guestimate when I will need a fill. It uses number of heating days (outside temperature adjusted), equipment installed,and usage history. In the past it has been pretty accurate. I have been tweaking/cranking the pellet stove more this season and it is paying off. Total delivery yesterday 22.3 gallons (I have 2- 120gallon tanks) So my tanks were still at 70+% they top them off at 80%.==c:)

Keep in mind this is with 3 girls in an old drafty lake house ...they like it warm!
My goal this winter is to install the OAK (this week?) ,tighten up the house and install insulation in the attic. I have R-19 at best in the attic!! :eek:
You go boy!!!
 
2 best things i did at my house are
1- install a pellet stove
2- get the propane tank off my property
:)
 
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Thanks everyone for the heads up and the pat on the back! That helped motivate me to climb around my attic to measure for insulation ;). I'm thinking of going with closed cell spray foam or at least flash and batt. I'm still trying to figure out what will work best.
As far as propane is concerned I plan to bury my own tank in the future. Good for cooking,grill and generator
 
Paul, we were in a very similar situation re: attic insulation. Our house in town is a 1950s brick and block bungalow with no wall insulation, just brick, block and (mostly) plaster walls that do act as mass. We have insulation in between the floor joists. The attic was woefully under insulated, with the original rock wool, and R19 batting rolled out in between the joists over that. It was in good shape, there just wasn't enough of it.

In Feb 2011, we had a professional contractor install a radiant barrier in our attic. My husband and I considered doing it ourselves but there are a few tight places that looked like a divorce waiting to happen. Also we didn't have easy access to the better quality radiant barrier that the contractor uses: a heavy duty reflective surface on both sides with insulation in between, sewn together leaving large enough stitch holes to provide for ventilation to prevent moisture build up. We had our attic "tented," i.e. the reflective barrier was attached to the gable walls and to the roof joists. We can walk, standing up, from one end of our attic to the other over the main part of the house. That area, right under the roof ridge, is floored in, and we use it for storage. So we had the barrier installed on the roof and gable walls so we could continue to use the attic for storage. The "tight" areas that we don't access anyway were "blanketed," i.e. the radiant barrier was simply laid on top of the insulation already present.

It took the contractors less than 4 hours to install the radiant barrier in our entire attic, and nary a cross word was said between the husband and me. Money well spent, in our opinions. :) :)

It was a cold, gray February day, and there was a cold front moving in. We had the pellet stove running but we had the thermostat turned down on the gas furnace so it wouldn't cut on. Even before the contractors were completely finished installing the radiant barrier in the entire attic, we watched the temperature in the house slowly start to rise... from just the pellet stove... no furnace... even though the temperature outside was dropping.

After they were done with the radiant barrier, we decided to go even one better on the attic insulation: we went to the local Big Box Home Improvement Store and bought rolls of R30 batting. My husband rolled it out crosswise, at a 90' angle to the ceiling joists and the insulation in between them. So now we essentially have R49 in batting insulation, plus whatever remains of the rock wool under that, plus the radiant barrier on the underside of the roof and the gables. Yeah, it's overkill, I guess... but it's also awesome. It really helps in the summertime, when we have an unimpeded south/southwest exposure on the roof.

It was absolutely delightful, at the end of that day, to close the attic door and watch the HVAC thermostat continue to rise with no heat source other than the pellet stove.

OH- and don't forget this part either- my father in law made us one of those insulated boxes that goes over the door for the attic opening... it eliminates that "chimney draft" around the attic door!
 
That is interesting Beca. There is a lot of controversy with radiant barriers especially in north. At the very least I plan to stop as air infiltration as possible. That is a big problem in older homes. It reduces the R value of our substandard insulation. I wonder how much of your improvement can be attributed to essentially air sealing your attic.
Your attic setup is similar to mine. I have flooring in the most of the attic. When I remodeled the 2nd floor I put some batts of R19 fiberglass in the ceiling. I have R19 FG in my walls also. My house is balloon framed so the wall cavities act like chimneys (stack effect). So my current plan is to air seal the top of the wall cavities from the attic (kind of like putting your finger on the top of a straw). Then insulate the bottom of the roof deck. This will also bring my HVAC into the building envelope and make my attic a semi-conditioned space.
Well that is plan! Hopefully reality will be close!
 
I know very, very little about the engineering and physics of insulating attics. We went with the radiant barrier because it would help in the winter, but mainly because our house turns into a little brick pizza oven in the summer. The radiant barrier in the attic helps a lot with that unimpeded south/southwestern exposure.

Our attic isn't "sealed." We have a ridge vent that was left open, uncovered by the radiant barrier. We have vented soffits, and gable vents that were left uncovered, and a gable fan with a thermostat and a humidistat. So, there's that- for whatever it's worth. I know we asked why we couldn't simply use Reflectix off of the shelf at Lowe's and do it ourselves. Reflectix is also a radiant barrier, with a mylar/reflective type covering on both sides of bubble wrap. We were told that Reflectix wouldn't "breathe" because it was impermeable. We'd have to make all sorts of calculated adjustments/special installations to insure proper ventilation/air circulation. We, uh, decided to let the pro's handle it. So far it has not rained in our attic. :) :) Dry as ever up there... So that's good. :)

As far as HVAC, our natural gas furnace, air handler and gas water heater are all in the laundry room. This is a huge help for the water heater. We have central HVAC ductwork in both the attic and the crawl space.

An energy engineer recommended that we seal and condition the crawl space. We've not pursued that. I will say that adding area rugs, bought at significant end of season discount at Costco, has helped a lot as well. We have cell shades on the replacement windows, and thermal curtain panels over the cell shades in several rooms. Basically, we take our cue from wise people who survive and thrive
in challenging climates at both ends of the temperature scale: we yurt up the house in the winter, and swaddle the windows against the heat in the summer. :)
 
We have a stone foundation and dirt floor crawl space. We encapsulated it a couple of years ago. I wanted to do it before we installed a furnace/air handler. I have to say it helped quite a bit. I feel the air quality in our home was worth it. A side benefit is how much nicer it is to do work down there.
 
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