Well I'm trying to make it easier/quicker to hook my generator into the house to get some power when we loose power From Consumers Power on occasion. My generator has a 220V 4 prong plug & what I did in the past ( after shutting off Main) was run the appropriate size wire from the wired 4 prong plug at the generator to the electrical Panel, Remove the panel & screw in the 4 wires in the appropriate locations & Run it... This takes a little time & I'm looking at a quicker solution. Like Putting a plug end on the other end of the cord & back feeding the power through the 3 prong plug in my garage I use for my 240V Welder. So here is my question... 4 prong coming out of generator ( 2 hot wires, 1 Ground & one neutral) 3 Prong in wall ( Two hots & 1 Ground) No Neutral} The Neutral is just bare copper wire. I've left the neutral tied in at the Generator plug but just snipped it off before going into the 3 prong wall plug. Is that ok or ? The male/female wall plug/3 prong is basically a 240 V m/fem electric dryer plug. Thanks
Wiring a Generator plug
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I have wired in Transfer Panel. Plug in from Generator and each item has switch for it. When you switch it normal power is disconnected. I still have to hookup cable (wire) from Generator to panel. But have hole in house wall with caps. Previous owners had it with Generator in House Closet. I have 7k Generator with Enclosure outside. I try to run it every month. https://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Briggs-&-Stratton-40301-Standby-Generator/p891.html
Your utility really really really does not want you to backfeed your house through a "cheater cord". The 240 volts produced by your generator can go back out to a dead local grid through a transformer out in the street and end up at a much higher voltage that can kill a linesman. They do all sorts of backup to prevent this from happening but in a storm recovery situation they may just decide to pull your meter and let you bring it up with customer service in a couple of days. Get a transfer switch and do it legal as if you do any damage with a cheater cord to the utility, the public or personnel you are personally liable, your insurance does not cover it as its illegal act.
Ok well maybe I don't have this right... I thought if the main was shut off you can't get power in from C.P . & you can't feed it back to them either .
Rob711
Feeling the Heat
Ok Dataman Can you give me a lead(Example) of what I need. I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. Proly install it inside garage as I have enough wire to plug it in there & Still get the generator outside while keeping it sheltered from the elements.
What I did years ago and still have was to mount a small breaker panel(6 circuits) next to the main. Then I bridged the small panel to the six circuits in the main I want the generator to power.Then ran an underground cable to the generator with plug and connected other end to small panel. When power goes out I throw the six in the main off, start the gen. come in and throw the breakers in the new panel one at a time. Also put in a neutral break so no backfeed
I bet Dollars to Donuts you need Permit 1st. Then it has to be Inspected Final Work. Check with County Dept that issues Building Permits. But your going to need
Transfer Panel
Cable /Wire to do Hookup
I noticed it can also be done with Collar Around Meter (But no Control Except the Power Panel and No Meter, You will need Big Generator).
Hire Electrician adn they will help you pick out what you need better than I can. Mine was installed in house when I got it in 2011. Never have actually used it. Most power outages are 5 hours or less where I live.
Note:
Homeowners who plan to sell their homes in the near future, or who perform work on homes other than their primary residence, must either hire licensed electricians or become licensed themselves. Licensed electricians still must apply for and receive the same permits as homeowners who do their own work.
Transfer Panel
Cable /Wire to do Hookup
I noticed it can also be done with Collar Around Meter (But no Control Except the Power Panel and No Meter, You will need Big Generator).
Hire Electrician adn they will help you pick out what you need better than I can. Mine was installed in house when I got it in 2011. Never have actually used it. Most power outages are 5 hours or less where I live.
Note:
Homeowners who plan to sell their homes in the near future, or who perform work on homes other than their primary residence, must either hire licensed electricians or become licensed themselves. Licensed electricians still must apply for and receive the same permits as homeowners who do their own work.
Reliance Controls 30 Amp 250-Volt 7500-Watt Non-Fuse 6-Circuit Transfer Switch Kit 3006HDK - The Home Depot
The Reliance Controls 30 Amp 250-Volt 7,500-Watt Non-Fuse 6-Circuit Transfer Switch Kit includes the necessities to make a professional transfer switch installation in a home, office or small business.
www.homedepot.com
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
If you want it to meet code it probably won't be simple. If you're lucky, your main panel was designed for use with a plate like Rob711 linked. If not, your best bet is probably to get something like Dataman linked, I have something very similar.
Omitting the neutral like you suggested is not a good idea at all. Assuming you have a neutral bonded generator, then the ground wire would become current carrying for any 120v load which isn't good. You should run both ground and neutral (plus the 2 hots) to you panel, then remove the neutral bond in your generator (most gen mfgs will tell you how if you ask).
If you don't care about code, then just backfeed without an interlock, but you'll still want the neutral connected to your main panel and the neutral bond removed at the generator. If anything bad ever happens though you'll probably have some tough questions to answer.
Omitting the neutral like you suggested is not a good idea at all. Assuming you have a neutral bonded generator, then the ground wire would become current carrying for any 120v load which isn't good. You should run both ground and neutral (plus the 2 hots) to you panel, then remove the neutral bond in your generator (most gen mfgs will tell you how if you ask).
If you don't care about code, then just backfeed without an interlock, but you'll still want the neutral connected to your main panel and the neutral bond removed at the generator. If anything bad ever happens though you'll probably have some tough questions to answer.
I've been brainstorming this as well and although I haven't tried it the Generlink seems like the easiest solution, assuming your utility has approved their usage. The utility would come out an perform the install. No need to modify or change your existing panel.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GenerLink-30-Amp-Meter-Mounted-Transfer-Switch-MA23-N/301961623
My understanding is that you can fire up the generator to test the system and it will automatically disconnect you from utility power. Once the generator is turned off utility power will come back online. Seems pretty slick.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GenerLink-30-Amp-Meter-Mounted-Transfer-Switch-MA23-N/301961623
My understanding is that you can fire up the generator to test the system and it will automatically disconnect you from utility power. Once the generator is turned off utility power will come back online. Seems pretty slick.
What I have. The cable runs to closet and we run another cable thru wall. Normally capped PVC Pipe and no cable outside. All Manual. It's for the Pump and such. Get water and heat it for shower. I wonder how the Pellet Stove would function on Generator Power. It's run thru AIMS 1250 Inverter/Charger. Have not had to use it yet. Been over 8 years. My Genny is only 7k. So Pump and some lights and then Hot Water. Generator can only supply 30amps. So it will be amp limited more than voltage limited. ie 1 Pump or 1 Hot Water Heater. Pellet stove would be almost nothing compared to those. Deep Well Pump 1/2 HP
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That's interesting, I hadn't seen those before. I couldn't find it in their manual but I'd imagine that it switches the neutral. Sure makes for an easy installation.
johneh
Minister of Fire
Go to the Generlink home page
You can find out what is needed to install their unit
and if your Generator is compatible with there system and which one to buy
You can find out what is needed to install their unit
and if your Generator is compatible with there system and which one to buy
AlbergSteve
Minister of Fire
Oh, That's good to know. Finally somebody answered my original Q. I need to call an electrician but its tough to get them on small projects...
You are correct, I've stopped and talked to a linemen working on our road during a power outage. They have no problem with backfeeding as long as your main is turned off. If someone can explain to me how he is wrong, I'd love to hear it, since he does this day and night.
The problem is how does the linesman or someone else potentially exposed to the "dead" lines like a tree crew, home owners, volunteers heaping out and others know the main is turned off ?. During an outage situation the utility triages the system and manually or remotely opens the switches up on the poles isolating circuits that are damaged so that the main circuits that can be re-energized. They then prioritize the isolated circuits depending on priorities and dispatch crews based on highest priorites. The typical switches on the poles do not ground the circuit. If a homeowner plugs a cheater cord into the house without flipping the main, they could energize the entire circuit on the isolated side of the switch. Depending on the fault on that circuit it could be intermittent and may not be faulted at that moment. Odds are the generator breaker will trip quickly but someone other than a linesman like the next door neighbor clearing branches off their yard may inadvertently get zapped. Dependent on if there is a transformer the neighbor may get hit with much higher voltage. Its doesnt take much. The utility crews when working on the "dead" lines do not trust homeowners to open the mains, they will "stick" the lines to interconnect them so that if they are inadvertently energized whatever is connected to them is shorted out. This will look like orange jumper cables that they clip to each conductor with a fiberglass pole that they attach prior to starting a repair. Another side effect is if the utility circuit is re-energized with a generator on line, its highly likely the generator will be destroyed as the generators phase will not be in phase with grid frequency.
Linesman and electricians both have several years of training on working with line voltage to minimize hazards. A home owner with the lights out and a credit card with no training can expose others outside their home as well as themselves to hazardous voltages. The only way to do it safe is a transfer switch or device that positively interlocks the main breaker so the breaker is open when the generator is connected.
Linesman and electricians both have several years of training on working with line voltage to minimize hazards. A home owner with the lights out and a credit card with no training can expose others outside their home as well as themselves to hazardous voltages. The only way to do it safe is a transfer switch or device that positively interlocks the main breaker so the breaker is open when the generator is connected.
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Highbeam
Minister of Fire
You want an interlock kit on your main panel. Simple, versatile, flexible, cheap, legal, easy, safe. Mine was permitted and it works great.
All the interlock kit does is force the main breaker off anytime the generator inlet backfeed breaker is on.
Don’t worry about neutrals and grounds just follow the directions and get it inspected. The generator inlet circuit will be a 4 wire cable like 10/3 connected to a male plug. Your 240 volt genset will have a 4 prong plug too.
All the interlock kit does is force the main breaker off anytime the generator inlet backfeed breaker is on.
Don’t worry about neutrals and grounds just follow the directions and get it inspected. The generator inlet circuit will be a 4 wire cable like 10/3 connected to a male plug. Your 240 volt genset will have a 4 prong plug too.
I would worry a bit about neutral and grounds, many homes would have used metal conduits as ground. He said he cut the neutral, so if his generator is neutral bonded (many are) it would mean that any metal conduit is the return for 120v circuits.
Walk into the basement to during a power outage to grab something from the rafters, bump your hand on the conduit that has a weak connection while standing in the puddle that has formed from the torrential rain. Best case it would hurt. Worst case...
If you have it inspected as highbeam suggested, they should point out what you need to do to make it safe if they know what they are doing.
I'm far from a code freak, I have a wood stove in my "garage" after all, but I wouldn't install yourself unless your willing to do some research to find out how to do it right or have someone help you out.
Highbeam
Minister of Fire
I read carefully and his cutting the neutral was more about an illegal adapter from a generator to a dryer plug for back feeding.
Once he runs the required three conductor plus ground cable to the required generator inlet plug this concern is gone. Yes, the inspector should catch him if he doesn’t!
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