So I just bought a second hand Vt. Castings non catalytic Defiant- maybe 15 years old and I'm just not sure how to operate it, in order to gain the best wood burning efficiency... My fiance says to open the side door, set up the kindling and light it, keep the side door open until it's blazing, throw in a couple of logs and turn the damper lever on the left side of the stove down so that the heat being generated doesn't go up the chimney.. what is the level in the back of the stove for that has a chain that leads down to a small 4 inch x 3 inch aluminum plate at the bottom of the stove for? We used the stove yesterday for the first time and could not get the temperature out of the creosote range (100-300 degrees) and at 350 degrees or higher.. I guess we're looking for some guidance on how best to operate the darn thing.. Any help welcome!!
Wood Burning Help Need- Older Model Vt. Castings Defiant
- Thread starter weevie4u2004
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SolarAndWood
Minister of Fire
I had the same problem year 1. I bought supposedly seasoned wood and learned the dry wood lesson. How dry is the wood you are using?
the wood isabout a year to 18 months old. I guess my real issue is how to be be sure we're operating the stove correctly, in terms of using the correct dampers in the correct order.. Vermont Castings no longer publish operating instruction for this older model.
SolarAndWood
Minister of Fire
Is it older than this one?
http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/2000968_Defiant.pdf
If you can find and post the model #, it is likely someone here has the document they could email you.
http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/2000968_Defiant.pdf
If you can find and post the model #, it is likely someone here has the document they could email you.
It's way older than that model. Ours doesn't even have glass doors. I think the guy i bought it from said it was at least 15 years old- if not older.. It's been resealed so seems to be airtight...
SolarAndWood
Minister of Fire
Thanks. I printed it. I take it from the previous comment from Solar and Wood that this model would not be considered as a particularly efficient model- what did he call it "a pretty burn box"?
SolarAndWood
Minister of Fire
I have no experience with the older VC. The comment in my sig relates to our experience with the catalytic Encore. Beautiful stove, not idiot-proof enough for us.
doug60
Member
I burned that stove for 5 years, load her up .
side door open for start up. once it gets going close the door .
That chain is the thermostat should be open about an inch for start up.
There's a small air inlet in that area of the stove . leave it open. for down draft burning.
Stove should reach 375 /400 within 30 /45 minutes.
Close the down draft handle on side door & use the handle & chain to regulate thermostat in small increments.
My stove would hold 400/ 425 for hours .
caution check internals (down draft damper ) for proper operation.
side door open for start up. once it gets going close the door .
That chain is the thermostat should be open about an inch for start up.
There's a small air inlet in that area of the stove . leave it open. for down draft burning.
Stove should reach 375 /400 within 30 /45 minutes.
Close the down draft handle on side door & use the handle & chain to regulate thermostat in small increments.
My stove would hold 400/ 425 for hours .
caution check internals (down draft damper ) for proper operation.
webbie
Seasoned Moderator
weevie4u2004 said:
I think the specs sheets and even an old manual are in the wiki....
stove
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Defiant/
manual
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Vermont_Castings_Older_Stove_Models/
These stoves were relatively efficient when used at very high outputs and with strong chimneys. But as far as day to day, they tended to be too big for a log of folks. That is why VC started making their newer models smaller and smaller.
I have a 1977 vintage Defiant. If yours has the one piece fireback, that's the original model. As mentioned they like to run hot and can get very cranky when the damper is adjusted down quickly. Its design resisted the popular concept of stuffing the firebox full at bedtime and then cranking down the damper for an overnight burn. Basically it was set up to burn all the wood in the firebox as efficiently as possible and that's how you should run it. The best approach is build multiple small fires that can run hot rather than one big fire that lasts for hours.
It needs a good draft on the chimney. Most of the problems with poor operation are usually bad draft, frequently a small flue on an exterior wall. If you dont have adequate draft, the horizontal burn feature is not going to work well and running the stove in vertical burn is one step removed from a franklin fireplace (not very efficient). Generally when someone has a problem operating the stove to the instructions, its due to a bad draft (or wet wood) and no matter what you do, its not going to run well. The other problem was that a lot of folks installed them in place of fireplaces and the installers mounted an adaptor plate in the place of the damper on the exisitng chimney flue, this inevitably meant a poor draft due to a flue that was too big and the potential for serious creosote issues. Do note that the manual is quite detailed on what is required for the stove to operate. The date of the stove should be on the decorative casting on the fireback if its the original.
The one piece fireback models were subject to a recall as the fireback tended to warp and crack overtime. The stove would still run, but the horizontal burn wouldnt work very well as the fire would bypass through the crack instead of exiting to the right side of the stove. The recall replaced the fire back with a two piece design. I bought a kit about 10 years ago to do the conversion from a dealer but it was pretty pricey as a lot of parts needed replacement. The two piece fireback is not perfect, mine is currently cracked and I need to order a new lower section (which means complete dis-assembly of the stove). I do not believe the replacement firebacks has a date cast in them but there should be a testing tag on the back of the stove.
They also require thorough cleaning on a yearly basis which would rarely be done by a home owner as it requires removal and replacement of some internal baffles. I am not sure if the manual details this out.
The original Defiant stove design was well ahead of its time and compared to the competing stoves of the era, their efficiency were well above the plate steel box stoves that were popular (and far less expensive). I replaced a fisher moma bear stove with the Defiant and cut my wood usage from a third to a half. Of course I installed an early generation wood boiler a few years later and cut my usage by another 30% so the Defiant is now used mostly in the spring and fall.
It needs a good draft on the chimney. Most of the problems with poor operation are usually bad draft, frequently a small flue on an exterior wall. If you dont have adequate draft, the horizontal burn feature is not going to work well and running the stove in vertical burn is one step removed from a franklin fireplace (not very efficient). Generally when someone has a problem operating the stove to the instructions, its due to a bad draft (or wet wood) and no matter what you do, its not going to run well. The other problem was that a lot of folks installed them in place of fireplaces and the installers mounted an adaptor plate in the place of the damper on the exisitng chimney flue, this inevitably meant a poor draft due to a flue that was too big and the potential for serious creosote issues. Do note that the manual is quite detailed on what is required for the stove to operate. The date of the stove should be on the decorative casting on the fireback if its the original.
The one piece fireback models were subject to a recall as the fireback tended to warp and crack overtime. The stove would still run, but the horizontal burn wouldnt work very well as the fire would bypass through the crack instead of exiting to the right side of the stove. The recall replaced the fire back with a two piece design. I bought a kit about 10 years ago to do the conversion from a dealer but it was pretty pricey as a lot of parts needed replacement. The two piece fireback is not perfect, mine is currently cracked and I need to order a new lower section (which means complete dis-assembly of the stove). I do not believe the replacement firebacks has a date cast in them but there should be a testing tag on the back of the stove.
They also require thorough cleaning on a yearly basis which would rarely be done by a home owner as it requires removal and replacement of some internal baffles. I am not sure if the manual details this out.
The original Defiant stove design was well ahead of its time and compared to the competing stoves of the era, their efficiency were well above the plate steel box stoves that were popular (and far less expensive). I replaced a fisher moma bear stove with the Defiant and cut my wood usage from a third to a half. Of course I installed an early generation wood boiler a few years later and cut my usage by another 30% so the Defiant is now used mostly in the spring and fall.
Backroads
Feeling the Heat
Sounds exactly like the one that is now sitting in my garage! Mine has the back baffle cracked and was a creosote machine. Since I updated to an EPA stove no problems and no chimney fires. It WAS probably a good stove in it's day....but if you ask me it's day has come and gone.
I agree with everything peakbagger wrote and would add:
It's important that the stove is connected to a large enough - 9 x 12 - flue with very good draft as per VC's original instructions.
The levered device on the back is the thermostat. The handle above the side loading door controls the damper. The opening with a cast iron cover on the lower left of the side should remain unobstructed all the time.
When starting a fire, make sure the themostat is open. After lighting the fire, shut the loading door but do not close the damper. Once the initial fire is going well you can add more wood but keep the damper open until you can feel the stove radiating some heat. These stoves were designed to operate in both an updraft mode (damper open) or horizontal mode (damper closed). Leaving the damper open for a time helps establish a strong draft, heats up the chimney quickly and reduces creosote formation.
If you start the fire, add a good quantity of wood and then immediately close the damper you create a slow creosote producing smoldering fire with a rather long delay before the stove starts throwing heat. With the right conditions you can also create one of the more exciting experiences in wood burning. The slow smoldering wood with poor draft can fill the combustion chamber with flammable gasses. When you open the damper the sudden increase in oxygen can cause a loud whump, followed by the steel inset plate on the stove top being blown into the air, flames shooting out of the subsequent opening, etc., etc. Does tend to get the adrenaline flowing, but not highly recommended.
It's important that the stove is connected to a large enough - 9 x 12 - flue with very good draft as per VC's original instructions.
The levered device on the back is the thermostat. The handle above the side loading door controls the damper. The opening with a cast iron cover on the lower left of the side should remain unobstructed all the time.
When starting a fire, make sure the themostat is open. After lighting the fire, shut the loading door but do not close the damper. Once the initial fire is going well you can add more wood but keep the damper open until you can feel the stove radiating some heat. These stoves were designed to operate in both an updraft mode (damper open) or horizontal mode (damper closed). Leaving the damper open for a time helps establish a strong draft, heats up the chimney quickly and reduces creosote formation.
If you start the fire, add a good quantity of wood and then immediately close the damper you create a slow creosote producing smoldering fire with a rather long delay before the stove starts throwing heat. With the right conditions you can also create one of the more exciting experiences in wood burning. The slow smoldering wood with poor draft can fill the combustion chamber with flammable gasses. When you open the damper the sudden increase in oxygen can cause a loud whump, followed by the steel inset plate on the stove top being blown into the air, flames shooting out of the subsequent opening, etc., etc. Does tend to get the adrenaline flowing, but not highly recommended.
mayhem
Minister of Fire
I grew up with the original from the late 70's. You're closing the chimney damper way too soon.
Light the kindling, leave the side door open about an inch. Damper open, little chain thingy in the rear full up position.
When you have a good fire roaring in there toss in some bigger wood and you can close the side door. Do NOT close the damper.
When you've got a good load of wood in htere burnign fiercely and you've got the temps up more like 450-500...now you cna close the damper to lengthen the burn time.
The little lever in the back is the air control. All the way up is max air. Left in this position with a good load of dry wood and the damper shut down will eventually turn parts of the stove orange because you're running it around 1100 degrees. As the now damped stove continues to warm you can reduce the air input...when loading for overnight shut it down altogether...you can get 10 hours out of an old Defiant easy if you fill it...takes two armloads of splits to do it...the firebox is HUGE.
Right behind the side door you should also see a small hole with a sliding cast orin cover...check the manuals over that have been posted, I belive this is the air feed for the catalyst. In the 15 years or so that we burned our Defiant, I don't think we ever touched this control...it was always left wide open.
Light the kindling, leave the side door open about an inch. Damper open, little chain thingy in the rear full up position.
When you have a good fire roaring in there toss in some bigger wood and you can close the side door. Do NOT close the damper.
When you've got a good load of wood in htere burnign fiercely and you've got the temps up more like 450-500...now you cna close the damper to lengthen the burn time.
The little lever in the back is the air control. All the way up is max air. Left in this position with a good load of dry wood and the damper shut down will eventually turn parts of the stove orange because you're running it around 1100 degrees. As the now damped stove continues to warm you can reduce the air input...when loading for overnight shut it down altogether...you can get 10 hours out of an old Defiant easy if you fill it...takes two armloads of splits to do it...the firebox is HUGE.
Right behind the side door you should also see a small hole with a sliding cast orin cover...check the manuals over that have been posted, I belive this is the air feed for the catalyst. In the 15 years or so that we burned our Defiant, I don't think we ever touched this control...it was always left wide open.
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