Wood furnace replacement - Help selecting a good system

[Berny]

I am sure similar questions have been asked multiple times and I have been reading like crazy to try and figure out a good answer but after doing hours of research I would like to bring my ideas to some experts to make sure they are good.

So I have a 1926 house that is approximately 2000 sq ft with 2 stories plus a basement and a (currently) unheated attic. The insulation is poor at this time (One of those things that I want to upgrade but furnace and windows come first).
Currently there is a Yukon Polar furnace from 1970 or there about (similar to http://www.yukon-eagle.com/FURNACES/EAGLEIIPOLAR/tabid/56/Default.aspx)

The house currently has a masonry chimney that the current wood furnace is ducted to.

It is able to heat the house quite well but is VERY inefficient (there are holes in the front panel of the furnace). We did use it last year for most of the winter but by the end of the winter it was starting to put smoke into the duct work so we had to stop using it.

So I am looking for a new wood furnace that will heat my house and be more efficiently then what is currently there. My budget is around $2000 for this (I wish I had a larger budget but there have been too many other expenses over the past while). I would like to be able to use the furnace without power (if there is a power outage) as all the ductwork in the house is setup for gravity feeding.

I have not yet measured the size of the chimney to see if I need to put 6" pip or 8 in chimney pipes in it or do I just leave it as it?

At this point in time I have found the following wood furnaces that I think are interesting:
Drolet Tundra/Heatmax (broken link removed to http://www.drolet.ca/en/products/wood/drolet-tundra-furnace)
Vogelzang Norseman http://vogelzang.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20_97&product_id=126

Having a Menards close at hand I looked there and the Shelter SF2631 looks interesting (especially the shaker grate) but reading on some websites it sounds like they are not the best wood furnace.

So what are some good options for a good wood furnace for a budget of $2000 (I do have more set aside for the chimney if needed)?

Thank you very much for your help

 

[laynes69]

I would love to advise a tundra, unfortunately it won't be enough for your home. You have a budget for windows and a new furnace. Unless your windows have holes in them or are in terrible leaky shape, I would at least invest in attic insulation if you don't have any. Airseal the attic then blow in cellulose. For as little as it costs, you could insulate the attic for what a few windows would cost. Gaskets can be purchased to help seal up old windows.

If you went with a more efficient furnace, more than likely you would also need a chimney liner depending on the size of the flue.

If your on a budget, the shelter may be the furnace to get you along safely for now. Eventually when the insulation improves and the home gets tightened up, then go for something more efficient. I'm guessing from what your saying, your heat load is pretty high. I airsealed and insulated our 1200 sqft attic for around 500.00. With that cost, we dropped probably 30% or more from our heat load. Don't underestimate the power of insulation, hell even airsealing the attic before we added to the 3" that was there made a world of difference.

 

[maple1]

My first choice for that budget would be the Drolet.

 

[Berny]

Laynes,

At this time I unfortunately don't have the budget for the windows. I was hoping to get them done this summer but that fell through. Last year I did seal them up quite well with plastic so it holds the heat better.

As to the attic, it could be converted into livable space quite easily as such it all ready has a floor, which I can tell has been insulated before. I can see that insulating/air sealing the attic could help some more. I will try to add that to my list to do this fall. Hopefully just using some spray foam could help with that.

So out of the options that I had put up you would recommend the Shelter because it has the larger heat capacity, even though it is more inefficient then the Tundra. I am guessing that it is still more efficient then the old Yukon Polar that I have right now so that is at least a positive. I guess the other side of having the larger furnace is that it would work better in a power outage state.

Are there any other brands of wood furnaces that you would recommend?

Maple1 - Thank you for your recommendation as well.

 

[laynes69]

In all honesty, the polar you have is probably more efficient than the Shelter. The provision for some secondary air and the heat exchanger makes it a better furnace, unfortunately it sounds beyond it's life. The Shelter on the otherhand has a larger firebox, which could translate to more btus. Even though a furnace is more efficient doesn't always make someone happy....just like everything else if it can't cut it, you'll be unhappy and cold. If your looking for something to shine in an outage, then a large plenum opening would be the best. That and maybe a removable panel to allow for a good gravity flow.

Your in Minnesota. Unless your floor is 16" thick, your attic floor even though insulated is probably not even half of your required r-value, and more than likely it's not been airsealed. Your in a colder part of the U.S. I don't want to sound like I'm telling you what to do, I'm just recommending or giving some ideas to look for improvements.

I'm really not exactly sure where your best bet would be as far as a new furnace. The shelter seems well built, but a 10" opening may not allow a lot of gravity flow if an outage occured. Your Polar is also a combo furnace right? If that's the case you don't have a backup because both fuels use the same firebox and the products of combustion can enter the home either way. This makes a decision more difficult. Hopefully some others chime in.

There are clean burning furnace's with large fireboxes like the Max Caddy and some from Napoleon. The problem is they are a couple thousand out of your budget. The HMF 200 from Napoleon or the Max Caddy would be something more comparible as far as btu output with higher efficiencies, and they also would allow for backup heat with electric or oil to be added later.

 

[hobbyheater]

This is a very popular in Furnace in Western Canada that once was made out this way but are now made in the province of Ontario. With freight it was a little over $ 2,000.
Its very easy on wood .


https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/grannys-new-wood-furnace.108241/

 

[Berny]

Just doing a short reply since I am on a phone right now

Yes the polar is a multi fuel furnace but we only used the wood. So for this purchase I am just looking for a wood furnace. We have a propane furnace sitting next to the polar but with those prices that is not something I like to use. We also find the wood heat so much warmer.

 

[Berny]

Well that was fun it stopped letting me type

I wish I had a few thousand more to purchase a caddy max or something like that.

For now I will try to do some of the sealing of the attic and other stuff like that along with getting a better furnace and hope that helps.

I guess the big question is how efficient I need it now.

Hobby heater I will have to look at that furnace some more.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

I think there is a charmaster for sale on the want adds here. check it out. 2 years old I think.

 

[Berny]

HobbyHeater,
The Ardent products do look really interesting, but I wonder how much it would cost to get it into the US. Or do you know if there is a distributor in the US already?

Stihly Dan, unfortunately that charmaster is still $4000 so out of my budget.

IF I was able to increase my budget to $3000 are there better stoves out there then the Shelter? It is so hard trying to figure out the balance between budget and efficiency.

 

[hobbyheater]

HobbyHeater,
The Ardent products do look really interesting, but I wonder how much it would cost to get it into the US. Or do you know if there is a distributor in the US already?
y.

Email them and ask !

 

[Berny]

Will do

The Kuma furnaces look really really nice. I will have to talk with my wife and see if there is any way we can scrape up that much money.

 

[hobbyheater]

Will do

The Kuma furnaces look really really nice. I will have to talk with my wife and see if there is any way we can scrape up that much money.

Kuma is the way to go if you can swing it!

 

[Chicken Farmer]

Correction, that Charmaster is $3000. And it pumps out some heat. It is about 2 yrs old with not quite 2 full seasons on it.

 

[Berny]

Chicken farmer, not saying I will purchase it, though I will ask some questions

Is the charmaster an efficient furnace? Does it get a sustained 2ndary burn (see I am starting to learn about wood furnaces)?

Any idea of how much shipping it would cost?

Thank you for your time

 

[Chicken Farmer]

Well, the short answer is no. The furnace does not have seconary burn, however it does have a "scavenging" system on the discharge of the firebox. You can check it out at charmaster.com. The Kuuma is a more efficient stove. I am selling this furnace because I couldn't keep it choked back enough to keep the house from getting to a hundred degrees. And since it had to be choked back, it burned dirty. I'm sure that with a bigger heat load, it would run much cleaner. I am aware of my mistake in the purchase of a stove that is too big for my heat load. I might be willing to talk about price and or help with shipping if interested. Charmaster is headquartered in MN.

"EDIT"

Feel free to ask all the questions you want! I'm not happy about offering this unit for sale, but it's simply too big for the house.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Well, the short answer is no. The furnace does not have seconary burn, however it does have a "scavenging" system on the discharge of the firebox. You can check it out at charmaster.com. The Kuuma is a more efficient stove. I am selling this furnace because I couldn't keep it choked back enough to keep the house from getting to a hundred degrees. And since it had to be choked back, it burned dirty. I'm sure that with a bigger heat load, it would run much cleaner. I am aware of my mistake in the purchase of a stove that is too big for my heat load. I might be willing to talk about price and or help with shipping if interested. Charmaster is headquartered in MN.

"EDIT"

Feel free to ask all the questions you want! I'm not happy about offering this unit for sale, but it's simply too big for the house.

All year round or just shoulder season? Most furnaces tend to overheat with a small heat load. How was it in January? I have always thought a small woodstove with glass and a furnace is the way to go. Use the stove spring and fall, furnace fires up when its cold, when it gets real cold small fire in small stove for fire tv, the furnace can run a little lower.

 

[Chicken Farmer]

With this furnace, the shoulder season lasted lasted most of the winter. It was definately better when it got into the teens and below. Part of the equation also is my wife got it pretty hot one night while I was at work, now she is a little spooky about it. I'm already partially through the new hydronic system install. The Charmaster is still sitting in it's place patiently waiting for a belly full of hickory. Once it comes out, I'm more than likely going to stick an Englander NC-13 in it's place for emergency heat and/or cooking capability. I've got 30ish feet of pretty Duratec, can't stand to waste it.....

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Didn't OH get freezing temps last year? I mean brutally cold. Sounds like it does not get cold enough for furnace or boiler. Good luck tho, I think you will only be using your stove tho in the end.

 

[Chicken Farmer]

Stihly - You are correct. We sustained ambient temps in the single digits and below for 10 days at time. We had a couple days when the wind kicked up that it was -30 wind chill. The furnace ran much better when left to roll, but my house is small. 900 sq ft on the first floor. We don't have duct work upstairs but we like it cold for sleeping (we are strange, the colder it is, the harder we sleep). But even with the cold temps and wind, the furnace is way oversized for the heat load. If I don't sell it, I might move it to the barn.

 

[Berny]

Well I just bit the bullet and put an order in for the Kumma furnace. Since we don't want to purchase another furnace in a couple years might as well just do it right the first time. Unfortunately there is a 3 month wait for them at this time. So I have to hope the old Yukon Polar will last for a few months until we get the furnace and can put it in. I guess I also have to hope it does not get too cold again this winter before we get the new furnace.

Now time to get a LOT of fire wood stacked (since I only have 1 face cord so far).

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Damn boy, you went from looking for a cheap unit to the cat's meow. You will need a 6 in chimney now. You will love this furnace, I know its scary putting out that kind of cash but You will be glad you did soon.

 

[Chicken Farmer]

The Kuuma is a nice piece. It is the one I should have bought out of the gate. I didn't know about Hearth back then. I thought I was making a good purchase based on what I could gather in tidbits here and there on the web and talking with the sales staff at Charmaster (I still think the Charmaster is a good stove, sturdy and throws some serious heat). Kuuma is where it's at though. Keep us up to date on the install and how you like it after.

 

[Berny]

Stilly, Ya I did jump from one extreem to the other but after the conversations here and just thinking about it, might as well just purchase a furnace once and have it last a nice long time. As to the chimney talking to the people a Lamppa it sounds like my current masonry chimney will work just fine for it. They guys there said they run the furnace with 8X8 and 8X12 chimneys. Sure I will need to replace the stove pipe from the furnace to the wall but that will be easy enough to do.

Chicken Farmer - I will let you all know how the install goes. So far I am planning on doing the install my self. There really should not be much to it (other then taking the old furnace out and figuring out how to get this one into the basement). The duct work is all in place and large enough so there is not much to do on that end.

 

[JRHAWK9]

congrats! I just installed my VF100 this summer. Do you have a LP/NG furnace as well? If not, your install will be easier than mine. I had to run a gravity zone damper as well as a powered zone damper along with wiring for my humidifier as well as wiring to keep my LP furnace from powering up when the VF100 was in use.

Did you choose to get the water coil as well?