Wood Heating in garage question...

[mtj53]

Hey guys....
Years ago, you guys were a huge help to me. Because of your help then, I installed an RSF Opel 2 Fireplace. That was years ago, and to this very day I haven't started my furnace once. Feels great being independent of that much propane. And when the power goes out, there's no better feeling than "it doesn't matter if the powers out".

And I enjoy lurking around and seeing what everyone is up to, but now I'm back with some more questions and looking for idea's. I hope it works out as well for me this time.

I have a separate garage. I do have a couple old tractors I keep in it. I currently heat it with in floor heating, and have a water heater inside that provides the hot water.

I know some or most insurance companies frown on or won't allow a wood heater in a garage. I know a lot of you will point out I should be calling my insurance agent, and I absolutely plan on doing that. I'm trying to educate myself as to if I have any wood heating options, and if I do, what they are. I kind of figured some of you may have been through this before? The only way I would consider it is if it can be done safely.

Have any of you been through this? Has your insurance company allowed you to install any type of wood heater in your shop? If so how did you do it safely? Will an insurance company allow it if your heater is off the floor a couple feet? (I have ten foot ceilings). I have no interest in doing it if it can't be done safely. I currently have the water heater in there, and that has a pilot light, so there is already an open flame. That is off the floor a few feet. Or if they would not allow a free standing wood stove, would they allow a sealed unit like a fireplace? Or any other options that I'm not thinking of?

I don't want to install an outdoor wood burner. In part because I know they take a lot more wood and for other reasons. With the heating system I have now, I keep it set low, and it does a great job. But the minute you turn up the temps, it eats a ton of propane. Plus takes a long time to heat things up. Plus since it takes propane, trying to get independent of that.

One last thing, I sold a tractor once, met the gentleman out in Iowa at an Amish Farm. The gentleman who owned the farm built wood heaters that sat outside, and pushed air through tubes. Not sure that's even an option, but I'm curious if anyone knows anything about that type of product? I remember asking a few questions back then, he said some folks build a small shed outside around it, he even said some folks "bury" his units....that part doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Darned if I remember where he is at though or I'd go looking for him.

Bottom line, looking for options to heat a garage safely, and want to visit my insurance agent armed with as much information as I can. Thanks so much for any help or suggestions you can give me.

 

[Gotrek]

Here its regular install specs + firebox 18" off the ground and a bollard/barrier to prevent someone driving into it

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

 

[begreen]

The requirements are going to vary with jurisdiction. Contact your local inspecting authority and see what they say. If it's ok (probably with the 18" guideline Gotrek mentioned) then check with the insurance company letting them know this will be an inspected and approved installation.

 

[Highbeam]

I installed a woodstove in my 30x60x14 detached shop. The shop has three 12x12 overhead doors and I drive into it, store fuel tanks, etc. It's not a garage, it's a shop. Keep telling yourself that, and refer to it as a shop at all times.

My installation was permitted and inspected by the AHJ. It had to be 18" off the ground and I think would have had to have some type of bollards if not for it's protected location against a wall.

The only trick was that I had to dump state farm as my insurance provider. They would not insure anything on my property if there was a "solid fuel burner in an outbuilding". Those exact words. Farmer's was cool with it so they now have my business. I'm actually happier with Farmers for several reasons but that is why I switched.

I love having a woodburner in the shop. If not a woodstove you can have a woodfurnace, a wood boiler, a pellet furnace or a pellet boiler. It would be nice to heat your floor water with the wood heater but I have found that boilers are extremely expensive and complicated.

 

[mtj53]

Thanks for the replies guys...this surprises me, I was thinking most all insurance companies didn't want anything to do with wood stoves in a shop. I like my insurance company, but 17-18 yrs back I had a woodstove in a different garage and I had asked them before it was put in. A couple insurance agents later they saw it and said absolutely not, it has to go or they'd drop me. So I removed it, and now I wish to heck I'd of shopped around for a different insurance agent!

This will definitely be an inspected professional installation....I am perfectly capable, but I know letting a professional do it will make things smoother, I'll stick to what I know best and let them do the same.

I'll be checking into the insurance company and local codes in the next few days, anyone want to recommend a stove? I'll be heating 1450 square feet with a ten foot tall ceiling. I'm not looking to get things super hot, just to make things pretty comfortable. In my house I was worried about getting a heating unit big enough, out in the shop it would be best if it has as small a footprint as possible...

Thanks guys!

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I wouldn't have a woodstove in my garage (or any shop that had tractors, pressure washers, etc. in there). Machinery like steady cool temps. Otherwise you need to drain float bowls, tanks, lines, etc. Batteries self-discharge much faster under warm conditions (counter-intuitive, but true). Rubber degrades faster, etc.

 

[newatthis]

Why does garage vs shop wording matter, and why 18" inches off the ground? I guess what I'm really asking is, why is this different from having a wood stove inside a house?

 

[bholler]

Why does garage vs shop wording matter, and why 18" inches off the ground? I guess what I'm really asking is, why is this different from having a wood stove inside a house?

Gas fumes and other flammable liquids.

 

[Highbeam]

Why does garage vs shop wording matter, and why 18" inches off the ground? I guess what I'm really asking is, why is this different from having a wood stove inside a house?

Also a specific fire code prohibiting solid fuel burners in garages. However, no definition of a garage.

 

[Highbeam]

I'll be checking into the insurance company and local codes in the next few days, anyone want to recommend a stove? I'll be heating 1450 square feet with a ten foot tall ceiling. I'm not looking to get things super hot, just to make things pretty comfortable. In my house I was worried about getting a heating unit big enough, out in the shop it would be best if it has as small a footprint as possible...

While it is admirable to want a small footprint in the shop you'll notice that the physical size of the largest stove is pretty close to the physical size of a small stove. More important is the clearance requirements and being sure to locate the stove tight against a wall or in a corner.

Do not get anything but the biggest possible stove and if you can (I can't in WA), a wood furnace is far more capable of the higher output that you will want in this application. See, you will be entering this outbuilding when it is cold and trying to raise the temperature as quickly as possible to accomplish whatever task you are planning. This is totally different than your home where you are trying to keep it warm. You want big power!

Go big. You'll never regret it. If you ever were to get too hot, your overhead doors will immediately cool the space.

 

[peakbagger]

I used to have a regular wood stove in my garage. At some point I switched it over to wood stove set up for hot air system. Its basically a wood stove in sheet metal box with the box flush with the front of the stove. cold air enters the back of the box via a fan and then exists out the top of the box. I never hooked up ducting. I have a 9' ceiling. The fan makes all the difference as it moves the air around the garage. I can get it heated up to T shirt weather very quickly. The actual stove design is not air tight, its a cast iron bottom grate with all the air coming in under the grate, there is steel flap to reduce the open area but it still pretty well runs at full bore. The big down side is the bottom grate doesnt leave coals so if I dont feed it, it goes out

 

[bholler]

Also a specific fire code prohibiting solid fuel burners in garages. However, no definition of a garage.

The definition of a garage in irc is an indoor space or building used to park or store motorized vehicles.

 

[Highbeam]

The definition of a garage in irc is an indoor space or building used to park or store motorized vehicles.

In my quick google search I find that the IRC does not define garage. More importantly, the fire code (which is where the prohibition occurs) does not define garage.

Even if we accept your proposed definition there will be folks who just say, well, I won't park my motorized vehicle there. Or there are folks that park motorized vehicles in their living rooms so does that make the whole home garage?

 

[mtj53]

WoodyisGoody...
I can appreciate what you said, but in my case I'll take the risk. I used a woodstove years ago as mentioned earlier, and I kept several tractors in that shop and they handled it just fine for the amount I used it. I won't be using the wood stove day in and day out. My schedule is pretty erratic. So I'll usually be leaving my in floor heat do it's job at times, although when I'm working out there, which realistically will amount to a month of nights or days through the winter, it'll be nice to have something that won't break the bank so to speak. And sometimes be nice to warm things up a bit just to keep the in floor heat from kicking in, getting tight in my older age.

Highbeam....
I know what you're saying. Although....back in 90-91' when I built my house everyone said make sure you build it plenty big and I did. Wish I had it to do over again, the shop would be twice the size, the house half as big Actually though, I have another shop, 1200 square foot. I had a tiny woodstove (the one my insurance company made me remove). That stove in 20 minutes could get that garage so hot I'd have to open the big garage door. That's no exaggeration. That did have 2 1/2 foot lower headroom though. But again, not looking to cook myself out. I'f I can take the chill out of the air I'm good. And I know that's possible. My house when very cold inside and 20 degree's outside, my RSF Opel will warm it up to 70 in little more than an hours time. Not bad for a nearly 2600 sq ft home. But your point is well taken. I'll look for a good compromise between firebox size, burn times, etc.

peakbagger...
I won't even pretend to know the difference between a wood stove and a wood furnace. Out of curiosity you have me wondering what the advantages vs disadvantages are. I know the wood furnace can be hooked up to ductwork etc, but that won't apply in my case. I can use fans if need be. Probably put a Magic Heat fan in the chimney. Heard good things about those.

I tryed posting a photo of the old stove I had but am having trouble. Tell you what, it was about 2' deep by 3' wide and that old stove had a built in fan, and it was simply amazing the heat this stove would throw. I wish I knew what it was exactly, I'd search one out just for old time sake! Paid $50 in 1985 for it and what a great stove it was.

 

[bholler]

In my quick google search I find that the IRC does not define garage. More importantly, the fire code (which is where the prohibition occurs) does not define garage.

Even if we accept your proposed definition there will be folks who just say, well, I won't park my motorized vehicle there. Or there are folks that park motorized vehicles in their living rooms so does that make the whole home garage?

But irc does define it. And even if you don't park a motorized vehicle in it the space is still designed for it.

 

[Highbeam]

But irc does define it. And even if you don't park a motorized vehicle in it the space is still designed for it.

Two problems. The IRC does not define garage in my search and since you can't find it either....., even though that doesn't matter since the fire code is the one that prohibits things in a garage and definitions may not be assumed.

Whether or not a space is designed for storage of a vehicle is a totally ridiculous qualifier. You can locate a motorized vehicle in a garden shed, doesn't make it a garage.

 

[bholler]

Two problems. The IRC does not define garage in my search and since you can't find it either....., even though that doesn't matter since the fire code is the one that prohibits things in a garage and definitions may not be assumed.

Whether or not a space is designed for storage of a vehicle is a totally ridiculous qualifier. You can locate a motorized vehicle in a garden shed, doesn't make it a garage.

IRC 201.4 gives the definition listed above. Do you think I just made it up? Why would you assume I couldn't find It?

I don't have a copy of washington state fire code and can't find a free one online but I can almost guarantee they have a similar definition.

 

[bholler]

Two problems. The IRC does not define garage in my search and since you can't find it either....., even though that doesn't matter since the fire code is the one that prohibits things in a garage and definitions may not be assumed.

Whether or not a space is designed for storage of a vehicle is a totally ridiculous qualifier. You can locate a motorized vehicle in a garden shed, doesn't make it a garage.

And you may not consider a garden shed a garage but if you are storing a motorized vehicle in it that shed is a garage by the definition in irc

 

[bholler]

Two problems. The IRC does not define garage in my search and since you can't find it either....., even though that doesn't matter since the fire code is the one that prohibits things in a garage and definitions may not be assumed.

Whether or not a space is designed for storage of a vehicle is a totally ridiculous qualifier. You can locate a motorized vehicle in a garden shed, doesn't make it a garage.

Well after further research that definition is not specifically listed in that code that code states that anything not defined in the code is defined by Webster's dictionary which is where that definition is from

 

[Highbeam]

And you may not consider a garden shed a garage but if you are storing a motorized vehicle in it that shed is a garage by the definition in irc

I did find a funny thing. If the structure is not attached to the dwelling then you can't even use the IRC, gotta go to the IBC. So if this space is attached to the dwelling then it is a garage if it is possible to park a motor vehicle.

Still BS since you can ride a motorcycle into the living room.

 

[Highbeam]

Well after further research that definition is not specifically listed in that code that code states that anything not defined in the code is defined by Webster's dictionary which is where that definition is from

THis is fun...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/garage

"a shelter or repair shop for automotive vehicles"

Which is just vague enough to apply to any old barn and has nothing to do with garage doors, driveways, concrete, etc.

 

[bholler]

Ibc definition is under 202.1 and is very similar. It is clearly defined by the codes like it or not

 

[Highbeam]

Ibc definition is under 202.1 and is very similar. It is clearly defined by the codes like it or not

So you can't find it and just expect us all to believe you? Face it, it is undefined and you are being dodgy about it. Show us the excerpt and how it applies here.

Really though, it doesn't matter what you or I think. The AHJ gets to make this decision.

If your plans do not call it a garage then it isn't a garage.

 

[bholler]

So you can't find it and just expect us all to believe you? Face it, it is undefined and you are being dodgy about it. Show us the excerpt and how it applies here.

Really though, it doesn't matter what you or I think. The AHJ gets to make this decision.

If your plans do not call it a garage then it isn't a garage.

I found it pretty easily you just don't like the definition because it is to vague. There is absolutely nothing that references the label on the plans as a way to define any space

 

[Highbeam]

Shelter for automotive vehicles.... well, a tractor isn't an automobile. Neither are lawn mowers, motorcycles, chainsaws, etc. It would be smarter for both sides if the codes were clearer for both sides of the argument. Perhaps something like storage of fuel tanks. I wouldn't want a woodstove in my garage but I would like one in my shop that has overhead doors that could possibly be entered by an automobile. My designer, me, never labeled or designed my storage structure (shop) as a garage.

Is the vagueness and ambiguity intentional? Maybe. WHo does that benefit?