Wood Heating in Poland!

[Martin Strand III]

I just posted this in another thread and it seems appropriate to repeat here.

This recent blog is actually an old (and good) idea popular in central Europe some time ago.

1000 years ago: the Steinofen
300,000 years before that: Homo erectus heated rocks (apparently)

See the details of the author’s personal experience with “IRON/MASONRY COMBINATION SYSTEMS” including

* the critical dimension between the masonry and the metal stove for heat conduction
* the requirements for a HOT fire chamber (more masonry than in most metal stoves)
* inclusion of convection vents in the masonry surround
* use of a heat exchanger instead of a masonry smoke channel system
* what to actually expect from such a beast (efficiency, etc)
* a diagram of a common design used in Austria and Germany

A modern twist on this could become wildly popular for heating needs North America.

Aye,
Marty

Ref:
The Book of Masonry Stoves: Rediscovering an Old Way of Warming,
David Lyle, Chelsea Green Publishing Co ((broken link removed)),
pp. 130 - 133, 1984.

PS: Grandma used to say, "What goes around, comes around."

 

[karri0n]

Make that http://www.chelseagreen.com

 

[sgcsalsero]

Thanks for sharing and please let me apologize for the insensitive remarks made at the beginning of this thread. I think BeGreen has traveled and seen these in different counties. It would be nice if we eventually had more international folks on the forum but I could understand why they wouldn't want to waste their time ...

 

[sl7vk]

Thanks for sharing and please let me apologize for the insensitive remarks made at the beginning of this thread. I think BeGreen has traveled and seen these in different counties. It would be nice if we eventually had more international folks on the forum but I could understand why they wouldn't want to waste their time ...

I've seen these myself in West Germany.

My wife, who's French wanted one when we started discussing redoing the fireplace..... It just wasn't feasible where I live, unless I did it myself. Maybe I'll build one in a future home.... I just didn't have enough time or energy for this one.

The ones I saw in Germany were slick because you'd cook on the one side, and then the entire wall was ceramic that got real warm and conducted heat brilliantly. Typically they'd share a wall with the living room, so the other side of the stove would just radiate heat into the living room. Well conceived actually.....

 

[drizler]

You have to remember though that sheet rock is about unheard of over there. Those houses are all built out of what amounts to ceramic hollow blocks usually 12 inches or more thick. The interior walls I have seen are solid masonry block that looks to be some sort of pummice and weighs next to nothing. There is hardly anything to burn in those houses which explains why I never saw the fire department putting out fires while I lived in the Alps. The houses I have seen over there have so much thermal mass themselves that it's customary to shut the heat off all night long. Nice, expensive and very slow to build but those houses if not knocked down deliberately usually last 200 years of more. My in-laws have one of those small ceramic wood stoves sitting in the side room built into the wall. Nice rig and heats like crazy but you would pay hell putting one into a house over here with everything being flammable in our houses. For most of us you pretty much have to design the house around one of those monster masonry stoves which isn't really so practical.

 

[sgcsalsero]

You have to remember though that sheet rock is about unheard of over there. Those houses are all built out of what amounts to ceramic hollow blocks usually 12 inches or more thick. The interior walls I have seen are solid masonry block that looks to be some sort of pummice and weighs next to nothing. There is hardly anything to burn in those houses which explains why I never saw the fire department putting out fires while I lived in the Alps. The houses I have seen over there have so much thermal mass themselves that it's customary to shut the heat off all night long.

I'll second that, I spent two weeks in Germany a year after high school. The parent's house in Mannheim was unbelievably rock solid, I think the floors were all concrete block or better. I remember distinctly discussing it b/c my feet were so damn cold in that house, even the inside stairway was masonry of some type. I'm sure our McMansion - Ryan homes that people sign their life away on are a laughing stock to some.

Thumbing a book about passive solar heating, it recommends having enough thermal mass (either for the sun to ping off of or for alternative heating such as masonry heaters, yep they get high marks from this U. of Colorado author). I have enough mass ...but my two 35 ft. chimneys are on the outside of the house making them worthless for storing and releasing heat.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Cool- fast efficient fire, and just suck up the heat. Brilliant. Clearances are no issue, either, with these big warm (not hot) masses to radiate all day. I am curious about the water heating.

 

[sgcsalsero]

Cool- fast efficient fire, and just suck up the heat. Brilliant. Clearances are no issue, either, with these big warm (not hot) masses to radiate all day. I am curious about the water heating.

reminds me of something back awhiles...I had a brick one car garage in Philly, planted tomatoes on the back side of the garage which faced darn near true south. Well don't ya know those tomatoes grew like wild fire, had to water them every day and couldn't pick them fast enough when they ripened up. Then it dawned on me, the heat radiating off the brick lended a big 'ole hand, & I stopped congratulating myself on my green thumb....

 

[Techstuf]

Here is a good source of information on burning efficiently by implementation of the principle of wood gassification and increased thermal mass....


http://www.rocketstoves.com/


TS

 

[firefighterjake]

Here is a good source of information on burning efficiently by implementation of the principle of wood gassification and increased thermal mass....


http://www.rocketstoves.com/


TS

Techstuf . . . don't take this wrong . . . but did you write this book or have a stake in it? Just curious, since it seems as though you often mention it in your posts.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I love rocket stove technology and the coffee-can gasifiers, etc. They may have a big ecological and social impact in poor nations.

 

[Techstuf]

@ffj


Me, oh no. Wish I could truthfully stake such a claim.

@Pyro

Great strides are being made on various fronts, in ways by which to increase burn efficiency!

Regarding poor nations, it seems ours is destined to come among them. So I say, bring on the ingenuity!






TS

 

[sgcsalsero]

Regarding poor nations, it seems ours is destined to come among them.

TS

especially when you have $50BB Ponzi schemes that the SEC ignores for 10 years, but I digress..

 

[Techstuf]

Hey, I think Churchie just solved the nation's heating energy dilemma....free firewood for the choppin.....


Ok, I'm kidding.


mostly.


TS

 

[renewablejohn]

For those eager to knock Poland our CHP plant uses Hamech woodchip burners which are at the cutting edge of woodchip handling and built to last.

 

[sgcsalsero]

For those eager to knock Poland our CHP plant uses Hamech woodchip burners which are at the cutting edge of woodchip handling and built to last.

yep, there are other gassifiers also, just ask one of the boiler room guys

 

[karri0n]

Cool- fast efficient fire, and just suck up the heat. Brilliant. Clearances are no issue, either, with these big warm (not hot) masses to radiate all day. I am curious about the water heating.

This is one of the more impressive setups I've seen that includes water heating:

(broken link removed to http://www.mainewoodheat.com/allman.html)

and this one is my favorite of all time:

(broken link removed to http://www.mainewoodheat.com/rothschild1.html)


Many more:

http://www.mainewoodheat.com/heater gallery.html

 

[Adios Pantalones]

karriOn-= WOW! WOW! Very impressive. Incredibly expensive, but really great defining features of the house!

 

[karri0n]

My dream would be to build one of those big guys central, where I have a very large masonry structure already in place, include a cookstove, bakeoven, masonry heat, water jacket for DHW, and a steam jacket to power an electrical turbine. 100% self sufficiency for all energy needs, right from the wood that already exists on my land.

 

[sgcsalsero]

My dream would be to build one of those big guys central, where I have a very large masonry structure already in place, include a cookstove, bakeoven, masonry heat, water jacket for DHW, and a steam jacket to power an electrical turbine. 100% self sufficiency for all energy needs, right from the wood that already exists on my land.

The MHA has annual meetings that might be close to you, it would be interesting if one of those master masons has something like this in their own house(s)...

 

[karri0n]

I'm very seriously considering working with MHA and starting work towards getting certified. The steam turbine may be completely impractical and not actually a possibility.

 

[leaf4952]

I am also interested in building a heavy mason (concrete) house which holds heat. It would be earthbound on 3 sides banked into a southern facing hill with a tower part for the 2nd 3rd & 4th floor extending up into the trees for spring to fall use or when there are guests. I think heat-wise it makes sense. The tower part would appease the part of us humans that needs to be out in the open but secure in our home. The lower earthbound part would fit the bill for hunkering down economically for a cold winter.

 

[kenny chaos]

WOW! I hate flashbacks. About thirty years ago, a man nearby imported a "super energy efficient" house kit from Sweden which is close to Poland so I thought this would be appropriate.
Anyway, it was kind of a post and beam frame but basically, it was a super tight, super insulated house. My brother wired it for the guy and supposedly, the heat put off by regular appliances was enough to keep it warm but if it got real cold, they left the light on in some thermal type range hood. I was told there was no furnace or other appliance strictly for producing heat. I always wanted a house like that.

 

[arcticcatmatt]

Hey.. cool. More masonry heater talk. Love mine for sure.

 

[gibson]

This was a really cool thread. You see why we like to visit Europe and vice versa, they like to visit here. Though in the end, home is home. Those masonry heaters were awesome. Good stuff, cheers!