Wood Insert, Fireplace and questions.

[sandb4jeep]

Hi again folks,

I found this forum last year, and got some really good sound advice on removing some out-dated triple wall pipe and replacing it with double wall. I'm back again with more questions, but on a different topic.

We have recently inherited my grandparents home. My grandfather built a beautiful rock fireplace when he built an addition on to the original house. The home has been heated with baseboard heat, but I'm wanting to install an insert in to the fireplace and heat with it. I have been given an older "Timeberline" insert. In my findings, I see that it's highly recommended to run a chimney liner with inserts these days. That's where my curiosity starts. The Timeberline has a sliding damper over the exhaust outlet. I don't see how I could attach a liner to it. (see photos) Also, I haven't been able to locate any kind of an adapter for this....

The next question. When I look up in to the fireplace, it seems to be "routed" out to a "main flue" area. By this, I mean if I look up in to the flu, there is a handle to pull. When I pull it, a door opens, maybe on a 45 degree angle. It looks like this is opened to allow the smoke to leave the firepit area and move on up the flue. It's only a few, maybe 4 inches of an opening that runs almost the whole width of the firebox. (see photo) I don't see how I could currently run 8" liner thru that opening to reach the insert exhaust.

And lastly, on the backside of the chimney, in the patio, is an opening that seems to be a "clean out" place. Is that what it is? (see photo) When the chimney is cleaned, is this where it falls?

I apologize up front for my ignorance on this topic. My granddad was my #1 adviser on things like this. Sadly, he's not here anymore to answer my barrage of questions. Thanks in advance.

 

[Jags]

Eeek! I am not sure what to think of the exhaust damper on that stove nor a method to connect a liner to it. The rest appears to be a pretty classic fireplace design. The damper in the flue is called just that - a flue damper. This usually needs to be removed to run a liner to the stove. The opening in the back of the fireplace appears to be a cleanout, but they usually have some sort of door covering the opening.

Is the replacement of the stove in the cards??

 

[sandb4jeep]

Was hoping to not have to replace the stove, but if that's what we have to do, that's what we will do. You know how it is when re-modeling. $$ saved here could be $$ spent else where, but I don't want to have a hazzard in the house!

 

[Jags]

The stove you have now was a pretty classic stove in its day. They were designed as a "slammer" install - some used a short stub up and into the chimney. For several reasons that type of install isn't really embraced these days. Another thing to think about is wood usage and clean pipes. The EPA cert. stoves will use ~30% less fuel for the same amount of heat and do so while burning clean. Stop and think about 1/3 less wood processing for a moment.....stop an think about reduced maintenance (flue sweeping).

BUT - EPA stoves need DRY wood.

My nickels worth of opinion - I would not install a slammer install in my home. I would not run an insert without an insulated chimney liner (unless room doesn't allow). I would not install an insert without a blockoff plate. I would not install a pre-epa stove (again, just my opinion). And...I would do all that is possible to reduce the amount of work that comes with heating with wood.

 

[sandb4jeep]

One other question on the stove. Inside of it, when you open both doors, there is what looks like a "cradle". It runs the whole length of the firebox, it's kind of "U" shaped, welded to each side. It kind of seems like a "deflector" of some sort...maybe to keep flames from going directly up the exhaust? It's maybe a foot or so from the bottom of the firebox.

 

[Jags]

...maybe to keep flames from going directly up the exhaust?

That would be my guess as well.

 

[sandb4jeep]

Thanks for your replies, I appreciate it.

 

[Jags]

Thanks for your replies, I appreciate it.

That is what this place is all about. Others will come along and chime in, also. There is almost always more than one way to skin a cat. And if you are looking for others opinions - just ask.

 

[begreen]

I'd sell that old dogger in the fall and install a modern insert with a 6" flue instead. There are a few that sell around $1100. The Timberline was designed for a slammer install with no flue connection. This is no longer permissible.

 

[sandb4jeep]

I'd sell that old dogger in the fall and install a modern insert with a 6" flue instead. There are a few that sell around $1100.

Guessing that I will need to cut out those "pipes" and maybe the damper door in the fireplace firebox for a 6" liner to fit, correct? If this is the case, would a flexible liner suffice? It will have to make a little bit of a bend to get to the main flue area it seems.

 

[begreen]

Yes, one or two will need to be removed. If there's room to make a gentle bend the flex will handle it. How tall is the chimney?

 

[sandb4jeep]

Yes, one or two will need to be removed. If there's room to make a gentle bend the flex will handle it. How tall is the chimney?

Just guessing, 25-30'. I'm still trying to get a good handle on all of this. There is the main fireplace opening where I want to put in the insert, then off to the side of the rock chimney, in the same room where the insert is going, there is an opening for a free standing stove to be piped to. Also, on the back of the rock chimney, where the clean out door is, there is an opening for a stove pipe to be inserted. So, I guess that my grand-dad built it to handle 3 stoves?

 

[begreen]

In that case if the goal is 24/7 heating I would strongly consider a freestanding stove. It may cost less and do a better job. Check up top to see if there is more than one flue coming out of the chimney.

 

[sandb4jeep]

In that case if the goal is 24/7 heating I would strongly consider a freestanding stove. It may cost less and do a better job. Check up top to see if there is more than one flue coming out of the chimney.

Your suspicion was correct, there are 3 flues coming out of the chimney. One other question, when inspecting the flue entries on these other two stove hookups, I see that they both have some sort of 6" stovepipe that runs through the rock to what feels like terracotta. Both pieces of "pipe" seem to be in good shape, they're no longer than 16".......but, they seem to be "permanently" in place. Has anyone came across this before? Is or was this normal? Not sure when my grandfather finished the fireplace, but I'm 41 and it's been there my whole life.

 

[begreen]

If it's homebuilt it could be anything. Is the pipe metal? Thin like stainless or thick walled like well casing steel?