Wood stove install to heat house ????'s

[gapman789]

I currently heat with fuel oil.
I spend approx. $2500 in fuel oil per winter season and I frankly don't want to spend that anymore.
I'm considering a woodburning stove to put in my living room. The house is basically a rectangle with the living room in the near left corner of the house if you were looking at it from the street. The house is very open with practically no hallway area going from room to room. The house is approximately 1000 sq/ft., ranch, no basement.

I was told by an 'expert' that I could put additional registers/vents in the ceiling and floor throughout the house and the heat would 'self-circulate'? Is that correct info?
He mentioned something about how this is the way the old 'gravity' stoves/system worked back in the day or something to that effect?

You guys helped me tremendously with a woodstove install for my detached garage a year ago and now I'm confident that I'll get the same great info and guidance.
Thanks in advance.

Edit: Here's the floor plan of the house. Living room 1 is where the stove would go, close to the left-side exterior wall. Living room 2 is closed down for the winter.

 

[Swedishchef]

Hey Gapman

Lots of stoves will be able to heat a house of this size. However, getting the heat from LR1 to LR2 would be tricky.

This expert (so called) is kinda right, kinda wrong. Would the stove be installed in the basement? Or on the main floor? Speaking from experience, putting a stove in the basement to heat upstairs is simply not the most efficient way to heat. My basement has to heat from 15-16C to 23-24C before the heat will rise in my staircase and transfer to the rest of the house. This creates one hell of a hot basement (some times 28-30C) for those -20C nights.

Are you looking at a stove? Furnace? Budget? Where do you want to put it?

Here's the biggest question: do you have properly seasoned wood? I don't want to bust your bubble but I think it's too late to go cut wood for this winter. If your would "hisses" when burning, you'll have a hard time heating with a stove.

Burning wood in a house is a great enjoyment, welcome to the family!

Andrew

 

[fossil]

I'd forget all about cutting a bunch of holes and expecting to establish some sort of convection loop. If you need convection, provide it with fans of some sort. Cutting holes in the house will just cause a net loss of the heat you're working to generate for the living space. Start working on stove selection & placement, and planning for the hearth & flue. Start thinking from the start of the whole thing together as a system, because that's what the stove and flue/chimney comprise. The resources available on Hearth.com are mind-boggling in breadth & depth. There's much to be learned. If you could come up with a simple diagram of the house floor plan, and maybe post some pics, and give us an idea of your budget for the project, the discussion can start in earnest. Good luck on your journey...it really can be a heck of a lot of fun. Rick

ETA: AH...while I was typing you posted a floor plan...excellent.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I can't tell by the drawing, how open is the floor plan from the living room to the kitchen?

 

[Wood Duck]

Is this one story or two? If it is only one story, how would registers in the ceiling work?

With a wood stove you won't get even heat in all rooms, so you may need to supplement the wood heat with some heat from the oil furnace. It seems like you should be able to heat most of the living space mostly with the wood stove, and be able to cut oil use by half or two thirds, which would still be a lot of savings.

 

[BrowningBAR]

If the insulation and windows are good, an Englander 13 would work. A Keystone or a Fireview would do well. Jotul Castine, Lopi Endeavor, or a Hearthstone Heritage. Pretty much any stove around 2 cu ft would work. If the insulation is poor and the home is drafty, move up to a stove with a firebox around 2.5 cu ft or larger to compensate.

What would I do? I'd install a stove in both living rooms due to the odd layout. Probably something along the lines of two Englander 13's or two Keystones.

 

[gapman789]

Hey Gapman

Lots of stoves will be able to heat a house of this size. However, getting the heat from LR1 to LR2 would be tricky.

This expert (so called) is kinda right, kinda wrong. Would the stove be installed in the basement? Or on the main floor? Speaking from experience, putting a stove in the basement to heat upstairs is simply not the most efficient way to heat. My basement has to heat from 15-16C to 23-24C before the heat will rise in my staircase and transfer to the rest of the house. This creates one hell of a hot basement (some times 28-30C) for those -20C nights.

Are you looking at a stove? Furnace? Budget? Where do you want to put it?

Here's the biggest question: do you have properly seasoned wood? I don't want to bust your bubble but I think it's too late to go cut wood for this winter. If your would "hisses" when burning, you'll have a hard time heating with a stove.

Burning wood in a house is a great enjoyment, welcome to the family!

Andrew

The house is a ranch, no basement, no 2nd floor.
Looking to put in a wood stove.
LR2 is already closed off from the house. It's basically a room addition to the back of the house.
I will be buying a used stove, maybe new pipe though, depending on condition of course. I've seen some nice stoves and pipe together in the $750 range. I want to stay under $1000. I'd be doing the install myself.
As far as seasoned wood goes, I have about 2 chords of well seasoned (1-2 yrs. old) wood and can get more.

 

[gapman789]

I can't tell by the drawing, how open is the floor plan from the living room to the kitchen?

LR1, BR1, and kitchen come together basically at the same corner with 4' doorways.
The kitchen, BR2 and BR3 come together basically in the same way as the kitchen, LR1 and BR1.

BR3 is my actually my office. A small 10x12 room, so heating that room isn't a big concern but it shouldn't be a problem either.

 

[ScotO]

The house is a ranch, no basement, no 2nd floor.
Looking to put in a wood stove.
I will be buying a used stove, maybe new pipe though, depending on condition of course. I've seen some nice stoves and pipe together in the $750 range. I want to stay under $1000. I'd be doing the install myself.
As far as seasoned wood goes, I have about 2 chords of well seasoned (1-2 yrs. old) wood and can get more.

have you considered putting the stove say in the kitchen?....we installed our "heating" stove in the kitchen, it looks great, fits the decor, but most importantly it is centralized in the house....which looking at your floor plan, your kitchen would be ideal for an install if you have room.....this too, presents some pro's and con's.....sometimes our kitchen is just too warm, so we have to open a window or two downstairs....but the pros far outweigh the cons....we are heating almolst 3000 sq. ft. with our Napoleon 1900p, have not turned our FURNACES (yes we have two gas furnaces, on seperate zones) on in three years....love the heat, and the coziness wood provides, but you are gonna need a bit more than two cords to get you through the winter if you plan on using wood exculsively......

 

[smokingolf]

I have a 1500 sq ft cape 4 rooms 1/2 bath on first floor and 2 bedrooms and full bath on 2nd floor. I have to shut the doors to the upstairs bedrooms, if I forget to close them they are too hot to sleep in. The first season my kitchen, which is in the opposite corner of the house was cool. The second season I installed these small fans that go in the upper corner of a doorways, I have one going from the living room to the dinning room and one from the dinning room to the Kitchen and now both rooms are comfortable. I have a fireplace insert and I keep the furnace on set for about 70. As long as the stove is running the furnace never comes on. If you are installing a freestanding stove I think you will be able to heat your whole house without any problems.

good luck,

Brian

 

[gapman789]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The kitchen/dining room would be great but it's too small of an area.

And yes, it would be a freestanding stove.

So what I'm getting is:
I shouldn't have a problem heating this house with a decent 2-2.5 cu/ft stove.
Registers/vents in the ceilings and the floors of the house aren't necessary.
A small fan here and there in the top of a doorway will help to circulate the heat.
I do know that 2 chords wouldn't be enough wood for a season. (BTW, I'm in Southwest Ohio - you never know what type of winter we'll have)

Another question I have is the piping/flue/chimney. My thoughts are to take the pipe through an existing window. Of course I'd remove the window completely and have the opening framed in with the proper materials/shroud? to run pipe through.
I also know that's it's best to have as few turns/angles in the pipe as possible. I would need to run about 3' vertical then 4-5' horizontal then the chimney vertical.
I'd rather go through the wall, than through the ceiling and roof.

I am aware of the requirements of the height of the chimney in respect to the roofline and peak of the roof.
Also, from info from my last mission, I need to check with my home owners' insurance to make sure everything is ok.

Am I missing anything?

I'll post some ads with pics of stoves I'm looking at to get your opinions. I'm not too concerned with the aesthetics and 'fanciness' of the stove. Functionality is most important to me.

 

[Todd]

For 1000 sq ft I would consider one of the Woodstock stoves. Nice long even heat and won't blast you out of the livingroom. They are also having the best sale ever. Vent straight up if you can, better draft and easier to just sweep straight down.

 

[snowleopard]

I think you have had some excellent advice here, and did a good job of explaining your situation. I would agree with the recommendation to look at the Woodstock stoves--one would pay for itself in a year or two. Don't forget the tax credit--that will help lower costs. You can sometimes find these stoves on CL as well.

The only points I would add is first, make sure you've done what you can to make the house as energy efficient as possible--insulation, ventilation, taking advantage of solar gain, etc. The second is that you consider going for a more energy-efficient means of burning oil for heating your house, as well as install the woodstove. I'm guessing you burned just under 800 gallons of oil to heat your house. Before I got the wood stove in, I was using a little more than that to keep a 2000sf house and a 26x33 garage warm in central Alaska for a season. Something's just not right there. Either you're losing heat or you're oil furnace/boiler is a real slurp-n-burp.

A small high-efficiency direct-vent oil burner, such as a Toyo, in tandem with a LR1-located wood stove might be just the ticket. For a few hundred gallons of fuel oil a year and a few cords of wood, you could have a system where each heater would each make up for one another's deficiencies, and give you a really nice warm house. If you went that route, consider locating it so that it could face out the door of BR2 and blow into the hallway (they have fans in them, very quiet, soft ones) so that it could support the convection current. Also consider putting a sliding pass-through opening between the bathroom and the laundry room if there's no doorway there. Very convenient for moving laundry back and forth, and then you'd have a central circuit for warm air to move. Remember, you don't need gale-force winds to move heat--a five mph current will do it if the heat is steady.

Sounds like you have to keep an eye on the bottom line--I get that, believe me--but you could at least plan for doing things in stages. Maybe the stove this year, see how that does, and next year you'll have a better idea of what needs improving. Better to plan to burn at least some oil this year, and still stay comfy.

Another advantage of having two heat sources is that if something goes wrong with one, the other is available as a backup.

ETA: I think the biggest lesson I've learned in the last year heating with wood is the principle of `first, do no harm', or `make haste slowly'. You can accomplish a lot with a little, sometimes. When I got my stove installed, I thought I would need an OAK and a HRV to move air and deal with the excess humidity I had in the house. The installer said he'd put an OAK in if I wanted him to, but recommended a wait-and-see approach, and that advice has stood me in good stead. I found that the house circulated heat very well, and the stove both dried out the house and improved circulation sufficiently for me to not spend the money for an HRV system, either. So try something, evaluate, chase air currents around with burning incense, think, ponder, take time to really get to know your house as it responds to this before you take steps that are hard to untake.

I'm pretty partial to straight-through-the-roof chimney installs, but you don't have a lot to lose by going through the window. Try it. If it works, don't fix it. If it's not so great, then next year put the window back in and relocate the stove more centrally and put in a stovepipe through the roof. We all tend to want to zoom in and get it all right the first time, but for me a let's-take-it-slow-and-think-this-through approach has saved me a lot of time and grief and effort.

Good luck--I think you're going to be very happy with your woodstove.

 

[begreen]

From the plan it looks like it will be pretty easy to heat the place. I agree and don't see any need to cut holes or add registers and vents. Living room 2 is the only area that will be a challenge and I would just treat that as a separate zone. Maybe just heat it with a space heater? For heat circulation put a table or box fan at the end of the hallway (br 3 wall), on the floor, pointed toward the stove . Run it on low speed and that will help even out temps at that end. You could even try another fan in LR 2 blowing toward the hallway to see if you can scavenge a little heat that way.

For a stove, I like the idea of the Woodstock Keystone. But if you want a different look, maybe consider a PE Alderlea T5, Hearthstone Heritage, Lopi Endeavor, or ?? The stove will depend on your budget and tastes. If this is a short flue, stick with something that drafts pretty easily.

 

[gapman789]

If I went through the ceiling and roof, is standard stovepipe ok to use up to the ceiling and then double wall through the attic space and roof?

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

gapman789, heating your 1000 sq ft home should be feasible with wood. But I would caution you that a safe, efficient wood stove system is going to cost more than $1000. I don't want to be discouraging. But a hearth and wall heat shield could easily cost that much alone. You said that you spend $2500 a year on heating oil. Could you allocate $2500 this year to heating with wood?

While you're evaluating your wood heating needs, I suggest going into your attic and assessing how much insulation you have as well as ventilation. You should also, most importantly, check how well your attic is air sealed. Air sealing will provide the single biggest impact to saving you money on heating costs. If you're handy, you can air seal and insulate your attic for less than $1000. This will probably save you in the neighborhood of 40% on your heating expenses each year.

For air sealing I would recommend using Great Stuff Professional. You would have to purchase the foam spray gun for about $40, but you will get much more from each professional can and better control with the gun. All the holes that go into your attic such as around vent stacks, the tops of chase-ways, the tops of the walls, drywall seams, etc, should be sprayed with foam. There are some other special circumstances where different methods would be necessary, such as around chimneys. If interested in more info, email me. I could send you a great booklet on the subject with diagrams, etc. by email. I would also recommend insulating with cellulose blown insulation, which you can do yourself. You would need a friend to help feed the insulation into the hopper on the blower machine.

As for the class A chimney, I would recommend against getting a used chimney. A new Supervent chimney manufactured by Selkirk can be obtained through Menards or Lowes for about $450-$500 for a single story ranch such as yours, and that includes all the stove pipe too. On a budget you could get a high efficiency wood stove made by Vogelzang for about $400 on sale through Menards. But I'm not sure how long they last. They are also made in China, I think, if that is an issue. A bunch of nice stoves were named in this thread that you might want to check out.

As for the chimney going out the window, I would advise against it. The chimney will work much better if it is installed within the home. A chimney needs warmth to work properly. When I moved into my current home four years ago, a class A chimney was present on the backside of the house. There was much evidence in the room where the wood stove had once been installed that the chimney did not draft correctly. The reason for this is that it was installed outside, where it was always cold. Any stove connected to it would have to fight the cold outdoor weather to heat the chimney to keep it drafting, which means that less heat is available inside the house. There are some great resources on this website that talk about this.

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

If I went through the ceiling and roof, is standard stovepipe ok to use up to the ceiling and then double wall through the attic space and roof?

You do not want to use stovepipe through the ceiling. Only use class A stainless steal chimney pipe. You can use single wall or double wall stove pipe from the stove to the class A chimney connector at the ceiling. Double wall stove pipe gets your clearance to combustibles down to 6". Otherwise single wall stove pipe requires 18" clearance to combustibles.

 

[snowleopard]

WoodNStuff has a lot of wisdom to share, and I agree with the reasons for going through the roof with the stovepipe. However, some people do successfully get away with a 90-degree-and-up-from-there approach.

Just so you're not scared off, yes, you can spend a grand on a hearth and wall shield--but you can do very nicely for a lot less, as well.

Double-wall stovepipe is intended for interior use--it cuts down on the amount of clearance required, and helps save skin should you brush against it when the fire is going. You can run single-wall or double-wall (my preference) up to the first ceiling it encounters, and then you have to switch over to chimney, such as metalbestos or Excel, and then run that the rest of the way. Or that's the way it's done around here, anyway. Agree that going with used pipe and chimney might not be the best bet.

My setup--stove, chimney, installation--for a two-story house with the stove on the ground floor cost me about $3500 after the tax credit. I built a granite hearth using HD countertop panels, and it looks great. It's about 2-1/4" thick, has the extra insulation required for soapstone, oak contour trim, and cost me about $250 to put it together. Again, you can get by with less and still have it look really nice. A lot of it is just the thought and research you put into it, and looking at a lot of pictures until you see what you like. I did a search here for hearth pictures, and that was what made me go with the granite.

I know that's more than you had hoped to spend for a setup (me too), but here's my point: even if you have to spend more than you're hoping (and I'm not saying you will), you should see a remarkably quick return on your investment. I wanted a safe chimney, and I knew I had limited time, tools, and strength/energy to tackle the installation, so I paid for having it done. I had hoped to save money on fuel, and wanted a `just in case' backup plan. I had the installation done in September, and went through my learning curve, and was burning about 22/7 when my boiler failed in January. I went over to burning full time, and kept my house warm the rest of the year with the stove. I ended up only burning about 150-200 gallons of oil last year--less than 1/4 of what I usually burned. Figuring 3.60 a gallon, the woodstove saved me well over $2K last year. I hope to get an oil burner in here, but figure that in a year or two more, that stove won't owe me a penny.

Here's a head's-up: as Rick said, figuring this stuff out and executing it can be a lot of fun. It can also be very stressful. It can be a roller coaster ride--don't be discouraged if you find that to be the case. It's worth it in the end.

 

[nate379]

It's too hard to say, there are WAY WAY too many variables.

I heat my house mainly with my stove which is in the living room. 3bd/2bath ranch not a whole lot bigger than your place.

I have to leave the bedroom doors open if I want to keep warm.. Even still when it drops to -20* it'll be 10* colder in the bedroom than in the living room. I don't mind though, even with it ~65* I still often end up ripping the covers off covered in sweat most nights.

$1000 isn't going to put a stove and chimney that you can trust in your house. Heck I have about that JUST in the chimney/stove pipe.

 

[begreen]

If I went through the ceiling and roof, is standard stovepipe ok to use up to the ceiling and then double wall through the attic space and roof?

You can use single wall pipe up to the ceiling, this is called the connector piping. At the ceiling, you must transition to class A high temperature pipe for the rest of the system. This is the flue or chimney.

While single wall is less expensive for the connector there is a disadvantage if the chimney is short. Single wall will radiate more heat into the room losing flue gas temperature. Lower flue temperature can result in weaker draft. Because the flue is the engine of the stove, pulling oxygen into the fire, this is important. Whether this is significant in your case depends on the stove. Some stoves are fussy about draft, others are less fussy. It also depends on the height of the class A chimney pipe. If the height of the class A is low, the draft can be marginal. In this case, double-wall connector pipe can help improve draft. If the class A chimney is above say 10 ft, then for many stoves this is less of a problem and single-wall may be ok.

Does that make sense?

 

[gapman789]

It's too hard to say, there are WAY WAY too many variables.

I heat my house mainly with my stove which is in the living room. 3bd/2bath ranch not a whole lot bigger than your place.

I have to leave the bedroom doors open if I want to keep warm.. Even still when it drops to -20* it'll be 10* colder in the bedroom than in the living room. I don't mind though, even with it ~65* I still often end up ripping the covers off covered in sweat most nights.

$1000 isn't going to put a stove and chimney that you can trust in your house. Heck I have about that JUST in the chimney/stove pipe.

I found this locally. I shouldn't need much more than this if I went through the wall. I have another section of double wall at the house as well.
(broken link removed to http://richmondin.craigslist.org/mat/2664700751.html)

This guy is willing to separate the chimney/pipe from the stove: (broken link removed to http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/for/2660488281.html)

And any thoughts on this stove: (broken link removed to http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/for/2662856602.html)

and these:
(broken link removed to http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/hsh/2619343568.html)
(broken link removed to http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/for/2660634204.html)
(broken link removed to http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/app/2657093580.html)

 

[gapman789]

If I went through the ceiling and roof, is standard stovepipe ok to use up to the ceiling and then double wall through the attic space and roof?

You can use single wall pipe up to the ceiling, this is called the connector piping. At the ceiling, you must transition to class A high temperature pipe for the rest of the system. This is the flue or chimney.

While single wall is less expensive for the connector there is a disadvantage if the chimney is short. Single wall will radiate more heat into the room losing flue gas temperature. Lower flue temperature can result in weaker draft. Because the flue is the engine of the stove, pulling oxygen into the fire, this is important. Whether this is significant in your case depends on the stove. Some stoves are fussy about draft, others are less fussy. It also depends on the height of the class A chimney pipe. If the height of the class A is low, the draft can be marginal. In this case, double-wall connector pipe can help improve draft. If the class A chimney is above say 10 ft, then for many stoves this is less of a problem and single-wall may be ok.

Does that make sense?

Yes it does.
The reason I would want to use regular stove pipe to go from the stove to the ceiling would be to utilize the heat coming from that section of pipe.
Not too concerned about the cost of using double wall or better pipe, just trying to get the most heat if/when possible.

I would say from the ceiling, through the roof and to the top of the chimney would be 10' or less. House is in an open area, surrounded by fields, on top of a ridge.

 

[Pagey]

Make sure you check with any local codes and your insurance company. Some areas have local codes that do not allow the installation of older "smoke dragon" (non-EPA certified) stoves. Most older stoves have higher CTC (clearance to combustibles) requirements as well, so keep that in mind if you buy used and go with a non-EPA stove.

 

[Wood Duck]

I would definitely look at a newer stove that will be EPA compliant. It is not just about air pollution, but also about efficiency. Modern stoves have secondary burn capabilities that burn up the smoke and gases that often escape older stoves unburnt. You can get something like 30% more heat from the wood this way. I don't know if the stoves you posted from Craigslist have secondary burn or not, but I do feel like you definintely want secondary burn.

I considered a used stove but my wife wasn't comfortable with the idea of building indoor fires in an appliance we wouldn't have been completely sure was in good condition. I tend to agree, but might have saved some money and bought used if it was just me in the house.

 

[kingquad]

Those stoves you are looking at are all older non epa stoves(except the Dutchwest).

Some stove companies you should be looking at-
Englander (NC-13 specifically)
Century
Drolet
Timberwolf (made by napoleon)
True North (made by pacific energy)


There are others, but that should get you a good start.
Englander 13 can be bought at most home depots. It is $649 at the one right by my house. Englander and SBI(Century/Drolet/Osburn) have very good customer service. Don't pay any attention to manufacturer BTU claims. Firebox size is what matters most.