Wood Stove Ratings are adding to my confusion

[timusp40]

I am a new member and would like to say hello from frozen Michigan. This is my first post, but not the first time that I have visited the Hearth Web Site. I love it! There is more information here than a person could ever ask for. Great site!

Here is my problem. I am in the market for a efficient, reliable free standing wood stove, so I am doing what I think is my due diligence in reading and finding out as much as possible about my favorite manufactures and their models. I am not going to mention brand names, because the question is generic. I have found that no matter how expensive, or how well made you can always find someone somewhere that has nothing good to say about a stove that everyone else has rave reviews for! The person with the bad experience may even claim to have installed it perfectly (or professionally) with all new pipe, but still can't get good heat or performance.

So what did you use to make your decision? If possible, I would like to avoid a couple of thousand dollar investment that I am not happy with.

 

[savageactor7]

Well if it's indoors I think whatever my wife thinks...

...I'm the outdoor King.

 

[Todd]

Well, my last stove purchase I pretty much went by the stove ratings section here on this site for real world comparisons. I wanted soapstone cuz I don't like the searing steel blast and high heat peaks and valleys I have seen from having a stove in a small room and house. Good rule of thumb when living in a cold climate is to subtract about 30% from most stove manufactures spec numbers, since they get these from ideal conditions in a lab.

 

[wendell]

Welcome to the Forum.

I understand your frustration. I think you have to take some of the things you hear with a BIG grain of salt. For instance, I am looking at getting a PE T6 and there is one review that just blasts the stove, saying it is terrible and doesn't heat. Reading the post it is obvious the person was trying to burn green wood in the stove but yet thought it was the stove's fault.

I think once you answer the question of what size you need, get a size bigger ;-) and decide it you want a convective stove or if a radiant stove will meet your needs. Then are their any design issues or features that you would really like. From that point, just take the average or what you read. You just don't hear anything really bad about any of the major stove brands, Jotul, PE, Quadrafire, Morso, Lopi, Woodstock, etc.

I think the most common complaint is people realize the stove they bought is a little too small.

 

[fire_man]

You have to be careful when reviewing the ratings and take certain factors into consideration. A stove could be given bad ratings for a number of reasons that are not the stove's fault. Examples are: Use of unseasoned wood, undersized stove for the application, improper flue lining leading to poor draft, operator error running the stove. I'm sure there are other reasons - these are just some of the more common. It's possible a stove is perfectly fine but got bad ratings for some of these reasons.

The way I used the ratings was I chose a few "must have" qualities and used the posts and ratings to determine which stove had the highest satisfaction rate for those qualities. For me it was long burn time, ease of use and stove durability. Thank goodness for this rating system, the stove I originally was looking at failed in all of the above qualities and I became aware before it was too late. Hope this helps!!

 

[Jags]

So what did you use to make your decision?

Base your stove sizing by firebox size, not the sqft heating capacity or btu rating of the mfg propaganda. As Todd stated, if you do use those number, subtract at least 30% off for real performance numbers (you live in cold country).

Decide what KIND of heat you want: soap stone, cast and steel all have a little different properties and heat differently. Add into this mix the stove designs that have an outer "shell".

Many people are locked into stove placement and chimney type. Decide what the "Perfect" scenario is and see if you can obtain that. Some can, some can't, but this is a long term relationship with a heating unit that you will be living with. Its worth the effort to give it a try.

Evaluate your intended use: 24/7 or nights and weekends.
Evaluate your current heat needs: A stove is a space heater - some house designs lend themselves well to whole house heating, some don't. Can you move the heat or are you gonna make the stove room a sauna, etc.

These are just a few things that I throw out at people that make the mistake of asking me about wood heat. %-P

 

[webbie]

I am a new member and would like to say hello from frozen Michigan. This is my first post, but not the first time that I have visited the Hearth Web Site. I love it! There is more information here than a person could ever ask for. Great site!

Here is my problem. I am in the market for a efficient, reliable free standing wood stove, so I am doing what I think is my due diligence in reading and finding out as much as possible about my favorite manufactures and their models. I am not going to mention brand names, because the question is generic. I have found that no matter how expensive, or how well made you can always find someone somewhere that has nothing good to say about a stove that everyone else has rave reviews for! The person with the bad experience may even claim to have installed it perfectly (or professionally) with all new pipe, but still can't get good heat or performance.

So what did you use to make your decision? If possible, I would like to avoid a couple of thousand dollar investment that I am not happy with.

I'm pretty good at reading reviews....it's fairly easy to see if the naysayers have a real beef or are just venting. Some even admit they have a beef with something else (dealer, etc.), but are mad at the stove as a result.

You can use a combination of things - the manufacturer reputation, the communications with the dealer or the maker, the other owners, etc.......

Yes, every stove has a negative review somewhere. But with proper forethought, I think you can made a decent decision. Frankly, most stoves are pretty good - more important is to get the right stove for your particular use. That is where the fellow forum members and the articles here can help....planning!

 

[Fsappo]

Firebox size, as mentioned a few times already, is a good way to compare apples to apples. If you get stuck between a few models that all seem good to you, base your decision on how comfortable you feel with the hearth retailer your purchasing from. The after the sale service could go a long way in your long term experience with the stove.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I am the second owner of my stove. The first owner's rating was dismal saying that it didn't put out any heat. After installing it in the middle of my house with an ideal chimney and burning all of the cresote in the firebox left by the previous owner, my review is excellent.

Agreed on the manufacturers ratings being useless at best. I would add that the firebox sizes listed in the brochures are also misleading. The only true way to compare is to put a tape measure into the fireboxes of the stoves on your short list.

 

[tickbitty]

I went by my hearth clearances, firebox size, and general good reputation of the maker. I was swayed by costs but as it turned out there wasn't anything "cheap" that fit my hearth, clearances, and firebox size requirements.

 

[firefighterjake]

I pretty much figured out my spacing requirements . . . but then took many member's advice and figured on a stove one size larger than what I needed. That cut out a number of potential stoves.

I then decided what I wanted for the stove construction and whether I wanted a cat or secondary combustion . . . that narrowed down the choices even more . . . although to tell the truth if I was doing this today this step would not have eliminated as many stoves since I have since reconsidered my own views on the importance of what the stove is constructed of and how it burns efficiently (i.e. I was leery of cats . . . I no longer fear cats.)

At this point I figured out what my budget looked like . . . what I could and would be willing to spend for the stove . . . realizing that this is just part of the cost as there is still the cost of the chimney, hearth and install . . . not to mention wood supply.

I was now down to a smaller list of stove make and models . . . and since I have always loved the thrill of the hunt . . . the fun of research . . . I drew up a list of the stoves I had come up with along with the pros- and cons- of what some of them offered . . . i.e. what models have an ash pan, what models offered larger viewing windows, what models offered _____.

I then started looking at the Stove Review sections here and read the threads on stove make/models that fit into my now much-shorter list. I too quickly noticed that some makes/models were almost universally loved . . . and others almost universally hated. Realizing that you cannot please everyone 100% of the time, that different folks can have different experiences based on their fuel source, chimney, etc. and that many of these negative reviews could be fueled not by the stove, but rather by the dealer I would automatically weed out any reviews that were negative when the vast number of reviews were overwhelmingly positive . . . conversely I tended to discount the few positive ratings when faced by overwhelmingly negative reviews.

By this point I was down to a small handful of stoves that made the grade . . . I then started visiting the showrooms to get a hands-on look of the stoves so I could compare them personally. I would touch them and look at them . . . constantly comparing things such as the baffles, hinges, fit and finish, etc. . . . and I would ask questions . . . I would ask the salesman what stove he liked and why in the large line-up (realizing of course that they are biased and may be trying to move one stove over another) . . . I would ask questions here at hearth.com . . . and if I ran into any friends or family members that had a stove that I was looking at I would ask them their opinion.

In the end I came down to my final choice and made that choice . . . thinking that I had bought the best stove . . . and in fact I did . . . I bought the best stove . . . for me . . . although if the truth be told . . . there are many, many stoves that I also could have bought . . . and I suspect I would be just as happy with those stoves . . . as happy as I am with the stove I bought. I suspect many folks, myself included, over complicate the process since at the end of the day -- whether the stove be soapstone, steel or cast iron -- whether it be a 1.6 or 3.0 cubic feet stove -- whether it be cat or secondary combustion -- or whether it be very simple or have a lot of cool, gee-whiz features . . . the truth is all most of us want is a reliable woodstove that will keep us warm when the cold winter winds are howling outside our door . . . and the truth be told . . . most of these stone and metal boxes do that job perfectly fine.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I am a new member and would like to say hello from frozen Michigan. This is my first post, but not the first time that I have visited the Hearth Web Site. I love it! There is more information here than a person could ever ask for. Great site!

Here is my problem. I am in the market for a efficient, reliable free standing wood stove, so I am doing what I think is my due diligence in reading and finding out as much as possible about my favorite manufactures and their models. I am not going to mention brand names, because the question is generic. I have found that no matter how expensive, or how well made you can always find someone somewhere that has nothing good to say about a stove that everyone else has rave reviews for! The person with the bad experience may even claim to have installed it perfectly (or professionally) with all new pipe, but still can't get good heat or performance.

So what did you use to make your decision? If possible, I would like to avoid a couple of thousand dollar investment that I am not happy with.

Welcome to the forum Tim. Not sure where you are in MI but that alone helps you decide on stove size.

It would probably help a lot of guys here to answer your questions better if you gave some descriptions. What are you trying to heat? What do you have for a chimney, etc.? Are you planning on heating the whole house? Burn 24/7?

Also you need to answer the question on fuel. Do you already have some wood on hand that is ready to burn? Do you really understand what wood needs to be like to burn properly? What type of wood will you be burning?

The reasons for asking those last questions is that this is the area where most folks have the biggest problem. They buy and install a stove....and only then will start thinking of buying wood. That is the opposite as it should be. Perhaps you are a veteran and understand that wood needs from 1-3 years (depending upon what type of wood it is) to be ready to burn. Yes, people do burn wood without those times and these are also the people who complain that the stove doesn't work right and they also gets lots of creosote.

Good luck on your quest. We'll be watching for more information.

btw, we live in central LP but have also lived in the UP.

 

[MishMouse]

Something to add is if you do get a stove from a dealer make sure that dealer is going to support you after the sale.
With some stoves manufactures you can only get support through your dealer and not directly through the manufacture.
Also if you are thinking on getting a stove, get your wood first and start seasoning it.
Any stove you get will have a learning curve, some stoves may require a little more learning then others, but all in all most of the stoves out there will do the job as long as you have seasoned wood, you size it correctly and it is properly installed.

One feature I would like to see added to the stove ratings would allow for users to make an update a year or so later identifying how is it burning now compared to then, and what you have learned, it would be interesting to see if the comments like "This things doesn't heat!", turns to "this thing is the best thing since sliced bread".

 

[Slow1]

When reading reviews (no matter what product I'm reading about) I find that I'm looking more for the overall trends and tone of the reviews than any one owner's experience. There will almost always be a few strong negative and positive ones for any product, but I wouldn't let any one or two of these make the decision for me. However, if you read close you are likely to find the general trends of what people do and don't like. From this you can also learn about the types of folks buying the given product too.

Now in the case of stoves you will learn that for some stoves folks really focus on burn times, others on ease of getting wood into it (top or side loading?). Generally folks happy with their stove will list the features that they find the most appealing and unique about their stove. Those who are unhappy may list the objective reasons the stove failed for them or they may just rant - it is often times more difficult to decipher a negative review to get useful information, but with enough of them you will get the idea of what folks don't like. Sometimes what people are complaining about won't matter to you - if everyone complains about the top loading door being a pain but it has a front load door and you don't plan to use the top, perhaps you can ignore that part of it...

I'm trying to help provide a generic response to your original post here - it is hard of course as I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for.

Now if I were to advise someone starting from scratch I would suggest to start out by figuring out the location - clearances, chimney, etc that the stove is going into. This will be the first cut on what options you have. Then decide how you want to burn - if you have more than one option of location and want advice, post the info here in the forums and you will likely get more ideas than you expect. Then perhaps once you narrow down to a handful of stoves start reading the reviews of those stoves to determine how well they might match your lifestyle.

Oh - and before you do any of this, start stacking your wood.

 

[cycloxer]

To the original poster: This is exactly why I bought a Jotul. Due to their long standing history of making fine cast iron stoves, I knew it was a brand I could trust.

 

[timusp40]

Thanks everyone!
I knew that I would get good information from all of you. This site and the forums are probably the best source of information to be had. I will use your thoughts and suggestions to help make my final decision. I'll let you know how things work out in the coming months. I hope to have everything ready including a nice dry woodpile by next heating season. You folks are great!

 

[crimson63]

I feel your pain too Tim, I'm in the same process of choosing a wood stove for my new home. My wife & I have been to a couple of dealers & they're trying thier best to sell us a Dutchwest stove (2461?). I was almost sold on the idea until reading many customer reviews on this site as well as others. These stoves only seem to have about a 25% approval rateing among it's owners. I take that info with a grain of salt but it makes me wonder. On the other hand, I've been considering a medium sized Jotul & after hours of reading customer reviews, they seem to have around a 90% approval rateing. I wouldn't judge any stove on just a handfull of comments but after reading hundreds I think the law of averages would apply. I'm pretty well set on a Jotul castine 400 at this time atleast until I change my mind again. Good luck with which ever you choose.