Wood stove sizing in distal end of house

[mgills]

Hello. I know this topic is discussed frequently and I have read several threads so far, but I'd still like to confirm my choice.

To try nd simplify my question, I am looking on sizing a wood stove to maximize the whole house heating with the primary purpose of ambiance. As such, we've narrowed down to either the VC Dauntless or the VC Encore. We had an Intrepid but it just didn't heat the house nearly enough and want to upsize.

The house is 2,000 SF with 60% downstairs and closed concept, draft farmhouse. The stove would be in the best insulated room, sized as 18x13, but on the distal end. We cut transoms over doorways and the stairs, added an OAK, which really helped mellow out the stove room, but still struggled to get much heat into the other rooms. The Intrepid never made the stove room uncomfortably warm.

Would the Encore be too big for the space? I suspect as such but I'd hate to buy the dauntless and still feel it was undersized.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Woody Stover]

I assume you came across this idea in your research, but did you try an 8" fan on low to move cool, dense air along the floor from the coolest room toward the stove room, or right outside the door into the stove room?

 

[begreen]

The challenge will be moving the heat. Can you post a quick sketch of the floorplan? Is there a basement in the house?

Both of the stoves mentioned are radiant heaters. In this case a more convective stove might be more effective for producing more heat without skin-searing radiance.

 

[stoveliker]

I'm not understanding the "added an OAK, which really helped mellow out the stove room".

Or is that mellowing only pertaining to the removed transoms (which would make sense).

 

[mgills]

The challenge will be moving the heat. Can you post a quick sketch of the floorplan? Is there a basement in the house?

Both of the stoves mentioned are radiant heaters. In this case a more convective stove might be more effective for producing more heat without skin-searing radiance.

I will work on this. In short, there are three rooms in a row, shotgun style. The living/stove room is on one end and only one story. The middle room is the dining room with the stair case to the upstairs, the other end is the kitchen. yes there is a basement: full depth in under the dining room, crawl space under either end (kitchen/living room).

We have geothermal for supplemental, but we like the ambiance of the wood stove. Would the Encore be too hot for the living room?

 

[mgills]

I'm not understanding the "added an OAK, which really helped mellow out the stove room".

Or is that mellowing only pertaining to the removed transoms (which would make sense).

The outside air kit dropped the temp in the living room 10 degrees because all the air was directed towards the living room and up the chimney. Now hot air can leave the living room.

 

[mgills]

Yes. We like how the stove quiets the house by turning off the heat, so adding a fan would take away the peace and quiet of the stove. Maybe I'll add it in intermittently to help move air temporarily

I assume you came across this idea in your research, but did you try an 8" fan on low to move cool, dense air along the floor from the coolest room toward the stove room, or right outside the door into the stove room?

 

[begreen]

I will work on this. In short, there are three rooms in a row, shotgun style. The living/stove room is on one end and only one story. The middle room is the dining room with the stair case to the upstairs, the other end is the kitchen. yes there is a basement: full depth in under the dining room, crawl space under either end (kitchen/living room).

As you have found, getting good heat distribution can be tougher with this layout. To improve hot air circulation, place a 12" table or box fan midway or at the far end of the hallway. It should be placed on the floor, pointing toward the woodstove room. Run it on low or medium speed. It will blow the cooler air down low, toward the woodstove. The denser cool air will be replaced with lighter warm air from the stove room. Running this way you should notice at least a 5F increase in the hallway temp after about 30 minutes running.

The other option may be to do this with an insulated ducted system in the basement that blows cooler air from the kitchen into the living room.

We have geothermal for supplemental, but we like the ambiance of the wood stove. Would the Encore be too hot for the living room?

The Encore is a radiant stove with much stronger output than the Intrepid. It definitely would be hotter in the room. It would also need more clearance from any combustible.

A cast iron jacketed steel stove would provide a softer, more convective heat. For comparison, look at the Jotul F35 and Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 in non-catalytic stoves and the Blaze King Ashford 30.2 in catalytic.

 

[stoveliker]

The outside air kit dropped the temp in the living room 10 degrees because all the air was directed towards the living room and up the chimney. Now hot air can leave the living room.

An outside air kit is supposed to connect the air inlet of a stove through a duct directly to the outside.
As.such you would not be using air from the home to burn (and go up the chimney) which has to be replaced by air leaking in thru gaps and cracks.
So an outside air kit generally avoids sucking in cold air from outside into your living space because you connect the stove itself to the outside.

So I'm not getting what you have installed.

 

[stoveliker]

Is the basement insulated?
If so using a duct to suck air from the kitchen and deposit it near the stove would help move warm air to the far kitchen - and possibly with less noise than a fan in the hallway.

 

[mgills]

As you have found, getting good heat distribution can be tougher with this layout. To improve hot air circulation, place a 12" table or box fan midway or at the far end of the hallway. It should be placed on the floor, pointing toward the woodstove room. Run it on low or medium speed. It will blow the cooler air down low, toward the woodstove. The denser cool air will be replaced with lighter warm air from the stove room. Running this way you should notice at least a 5F increase in the hallway temp after about 30 minutes running.

The other option may be to do this with an insulated ducted system in the basement that blows cooler air from the kitchen into the living room.


The Encore is a radiant stove with much stronger output than the Intrepid. It definitely would be hotter in the room. It would also need more clearance from any combustible.

A cast iron jacketed steel stove would provide a softer, more convective heat. For comparison, look at the Jotul F35 and Pacific Energy Alderlea T5 in non-catalytic stoves and the Blaze King Ashford 30.2 in catalytic.

I didn’t know about convective heat relative to the radiant heat of the VC. I would love to see one in action before I buy, or at least learn more as this may solve my major problems.

The air moves through the house fairly well even with the radiant heat, but I suppose it’ll move even better with a convective stove. Do they work as well when insulation is poor?

 

[mgills]

An outside air kit is supposed to connect the air inlet of a stove through a duct directly to the outside.
As.such you would not be using air from the home to burn (and go up the chimney) which has to be replaced by air leaking in thru gaps and cracks.
So an outside air kit generally avoids sucking in cold air from outside into your living space because you connect the stove itself to the outside.

So I'm not getting what you have installed.

Correct. I have an outside air kit pulling in outside air. Sorry - I must not be explaining well.

By pulling in outside air directly into the stove and not through cracks, the stove room air isn’t all going to the stove for combustion and therefore can flow through the house.

 

[begreen]

I didn’t know about convective heat relative to the radiant heat of the VC. I would love to see one in action before I buy, or at least learn more as this may solve my major problems.

The air moves through the house fairly well even with the radiant heat, but I suppose it’ll move even better with a convective stove. Do they work as well when insulation is poor?

There could be a chimney effect that pulls heat out of the room and upstairs via the stairwell. Is the kitchen much colder?

Does the stove face the hallway or is it offset?

Last question, what model Intrepid is this? I'm wondering if it's a cat or a non-cat version.

 

[stoveliker]

I didn’t know about convective heat relative to the radiant heat of the VC. I would love to see one in action before I buy, or at least learn more as this may solve my major problems.

The air moves through the house fairly well even with the radiant heat, but I suppose it’ll move even better with a convective stove. Do they work as well when insulation is poor?

I don't think it'll move better but the experience in the stove room will be less hot when the radiative load on the person is lower.
In the end the stove sheds the same number of. BTUs in the room, but the difference is as sitting in the shade versus being baked by direct sunlight.

 

[Woody Stover]

adding a fan would take away the peace and quiet of the stove. Maybe I'll add it in intermittently to help move air temporarily

That's why I mentioned on low in my post. It's quieter, plus it will gently enhance the natural convection loop that already occurs between a warmer and a cooler room. If you have the floor fan on high, the swirling air may disrupt the convection loop.

 

[begreen]

FWIW, we've never run the stove fan on high. On low and even medium, it's pretty quiet. We only use the fan in cold weather to help move heat to the farther corners of the house quicker.

 

[Gearhead660]

Hello. I know this topic is discussed frequently and I have read several threads so far, but I'd still like to confirm my choice.

To try nd simplify my question, I am looking on sizing a wood stove to maximize the whole house heating with the primary purpose of ambiance. As such, we've narrowed down to either the VC Dauntless or the VC Encore. We had an Intrepid but it just didn't heat the house nearly enough and want to upsize.

The house is 2,000 SF with 60% downstairs and closed concept, draft farmhouse. The stove would be in the best insulated room, sized as 18x13, but on the distal end. We cut transoms over doorways and the stairs, added an OAK, which really helped mellow out the stove room, but still struggled to get much heat into the other rooms. The Intrepid never made the stove room uncomfortably warm.

Would the Encore be too big for the space? I suspect as such but I'd hate to buy the dauntless and still feel it was undersized.

Thanks in advance!

My old farm house is similar to yours, long and skinny. Close to 2400 sq ft, equal upstairs and down. Stove on one end. I use stove as primary heat, only need to use gas boiler if we are out of town overnight. Heat moves well downs stairs, but my doorways are large. Have 2 stairwells going upstairs to bedrooms. I try to keep downstairs around 70*, upstairs moves around the 65* mark in the farthest room from the stove.
If your insulation isn't the best, spend some money there, will be well spent.
As for the stove, go as big as you can. Will need the BTUs to heat that big, easy breathing house.

 

[Woody Stover]

Heat moves well downs stairs, but my doorways are large. Have 2 stairwells going upstairs to bedrooms. I try to keep downstairs around 70*, upstairs moves around the 65* mark in the farthest room from the stove.
If your insulation isn't the best, spend some money there, will be well spent.

My MIL's house was similarly strung out. Stove was in an add-on solarium, but it helped having two doorways into the open living room/dining room. A long, transomed hallway from the center of the LR/DR had the kitchen and bedrooms on either side, although the kitchen had a second door into the dining room. We closed the doors to unused bedrooms, and limited the heat going to the unused upstairs by installing a bamboo accordion-type door. You might be able to do the same with a curtain or whatever, to somewhat slow the warm air flowing upstairs, if desired.
That old house wasn't very weather-tight, but the mighty Buck 91 and a couple of radiant electric heaters kept the old girl comfortable, and her heating bill down.

 

[mgills]

There could be a chimney effect that pulls heat out of the room and upstairs via the stairwell. Is the kitchen much colder?

Does the stove face the hallway or is it offset?

Last question, what model Intrepid is this? I'm wondering if it's a cat or a non-cat version.

I attached a rough sketch of the house. As a note, each room just has the width of the doorway between each room. The kitchen is quite a bit colder as the air rushes upstairs. We did put a transom over the stairway and have come to realize that's the wrong idea.

It's the most recent model, the flexburn (so cat).

 

[Woody Stover]

Yeah, undo the transom to the upstairs--plenty of heat should migrate up there anyway, I'd think. If there are only bedrooms for sleeping upstairs, you don't need them real warm. If a kid hangs out up there at other times, some type of small room heater might work.
Bear in mind that depending on how much weatherizing you plan to do, that will affect how much heat the stove will need to provide to keep up.

 

[mgills]

My old farm house is similar to yours, long and skinny. Close to 2400 sq ft, equal upstairs and down. Stove on one end. I use stove as primary heat, only need to use gas boiler if we are out of town overnight. Heat moves well downs stairs, but my doorways are large. Have 2 stairwells going upstairs to bedrooms. I try to keep downstairs around 70*, upstairs moves around the 65* mark in the farthest room from the stove.
If your insulation isn't the best, spend some money there, will be well spent.
As for the stove, go as big as you can. Will need the BTUs to heat that big, easy breathing house.

What type of stove do you use, convection or radiant? Do you have any thoughts of one vs the other?

 

[Woody Stover]

What type of stove do you use, convection or radiant? Do you have any thoughts of one vs the other?

He's got a couple of stoves in his signature. I'd think the Drolet is probably radiant, with no side shields, but I'd have to look it up on their website.

 

[Gearhead660]

What type of stove do you use, convection or radiant? Do you have any thoughts of one vs the other?

I have a Drolet Myriad 2. Its radiant. There is a blower on it, but I don't use it. I didn't see any gain when I did use it, and I don't like the noise. I prefer radiant vs convection, just personal preference.

 

[mgills]

Thanks everyone for your help. I stopped by my local supplier today to chat about BK vs VC and found out they have the Jotul F55 V2 $1500 off so I think I’m going to go with that. Looks to have all I need.

 

[begreen]

Congratulations, good stove. It's a big step up, over twice as large as the Intrepid. Make smaller 4-5 split fires in milder weather.