wood stove smoking

[fireboss1237]

I bought this Fire Boss insert for $100 and made it into a wood stove. Wouldn't normally do something like that but it was cheap and the louvers were already cut out. So i figured I'd use it for the time being since my Van Wert boiler was out of commission....(another story for another day). I ran it all night and it was 80 in the house so it works...lol. But i noticed smoke in my kitchen and living room. And cant tell where its coming from. I thought originally it was from me having the door cracked during initial start up. But I opened the doors and windows and it was still a little hazy. Now I can handle this. But my pregnant asthmatic wife cannot. Is there any test I can do to find the leak. And is my stove piping alignment suitable? I'd like to make this work for at least this winter. To at least get my money out of it. Thanks from a first time home/woodstove owner

 

[BrotherBart]

Is that chimney the only one on the flue or is the the boiler sharing the same flue?

 

[fireboss1237]

Is that chimney the only one on the flue or is the the boiler sharing the same flue?

No I have 3 separate flues...boiler, fireplace and woodstove.

 

[Squire]

Go to a wood stove store or order smoke tablets. You can put these in a stove and check for leaks with out having to light a fire. They worked on my pellet stove flue system.

 

[begreen]

Is there a baffle in this stove? If not, flame may be going up the pipe and the pipe getting too hot. The smoke might be the paint of the stove pipe getting too hot in the horizontal section. A probe thermometer would tell this. The flue gases may be lingering there too long due to the 3, 90 deg. turns in the smoke path. At a minimum the horiz. section should have an uphill pitch of at least 1/4" per foot toward the chimney. Better yet come off the stove with a damper piece, then 45 elbow toward the elbow at the chimney.

Also, this stove requires 36" from combustibles. The wood side brace looks like it should be shielded.

 

[coaly]

Are you sure it's wood smoke? Smell or haze from the first fire is normal if you handle a stove, get oil on it, stove black, drill, weld, paint, or heat new pipe. Even sitting all summer getting dusty will smell during the first fire of the season.
It's always best to fire them outside after working on them or painting. It requires a few pieces of pipe and that's a good time to burn that off if it's new. Heat cures heat resistant paint and it stinks.

Did the insert have a flue collar, and what size was the opening? That diameter (or square inch opening) was the recommended size for flue all the way up. Is that a 6 inch collar increased to 8 inch connector pipe? Most inserts had a larger opening for open door burning with screen in place. That may allow smoke to roll in if chimney isn't hot enough, but not leak in when closed.
Any leak in the stove or pipe will allow indoor air to leak in due to low pressure area created by rising gasses in the flue, not out.
Too many exhaust fans in the house can over power the chimney and draw smoke through the intakes. (bath fan, range hood, dryer, central vac)

 

[fireboss1237]

Go to a wood stove store or order smoke tablets. You can put these in a stove and check for leaks with out having to light a fire. They worked on my pellet stove flue system.

Thanks...I'll look for those

 

[fireboss1237]

Is there a baffle in this stove? If not, flame may be going up the pipe and the pipe getting too hot. The smoke might be the paint of the stove pipe getting too hot in the horizontal section. A probe thermometer would tell this. The flue gases may be lingering there too long due to the 3, 90 deg. turns in the smoke path. At a minimum the horiz. section should have an uphill pitch of at least 1/4" per foot toward the chimney. Better yet come off the stove with a damper piece, then 45 elbow toward the elbow at the chimney.

Also, this stove requires 36" from combustibles. The wood side brace looks like it should be shielded.

A baffle was welded into it. And that brace is coming out soon regardless. Thanks I'm getting another straight pipe after this weekend to adust the piping

 

[fireboss1237]

Are you sure it's wood smoke? Smell or haze from the first fire is normal if you handle a stove, get oil on it, stove black, drill, weld, paint, or heat new pipe. Even sitting all summer getting dusty will smell during the first fire of the season.
It's always best to fire them outside after working on them or painting. It requires a few pieces of pipe and that's a good time to burn that off if it's new. Heat cures heat resistant paint and it stinks.

Did the insert have a flue collar, and what size was the opening? That diameter (or square inch opening) was the recommended size for flue all the way up. Is that a 6 inch collar increased to 8 inch connector pipe? Most inserts had a larger opening for open door burning with screen in place. That may allow smoke to roll in if chimney isn't hot enough, but not leak in when closed.
Any leak in the stove or pipe will allow indoor air to leak in due to low pressure area created by rising gasses in the flue, not out.
Too many exhaust fans in the house can over power the chimney and draw smoke through the intakes. (bath fan, range hood, dryer, central vac)

I actually didn't notice the smoke today after its second light off today. The stove exhaust size is 6 in the flue is 7in. So we went from 6-7 reducer

 

[fireboss1237]

Though the smoke was alot less noticeable. During initial startup I saw smoke coming out a few spots on the piping where the pipe seems were. I got some zip screws in those spots. I will also get a pipe thermometer. Because I'm not sure if I'm bring at the right temp. Thanks

 

[coaly]

Once the flue is hot, the smoke leakage at joints becomes a small leak INTO the chimney, not out. That's why you notice it when first lighting. Code is 3 screws at each pipe joint.
If you crack a window nearby and light some newspaper to warm the flue it will help prevent leakage by starting the draft before lighting stove.
The more you angle the horizontal pipe upward the better.

Make sure the square inch area the smoke travels above baffle (called smoke space) is at least the square inch area of stove outlet. That would be 28.26 square inches in your case. The smoke space should be adjustable for chimney draft, not stove size. So welded in place is what you have. The more resistance (elbows, pipe length, horizontal run, cap and screen) the larger the smoke space required. I've found a straight up configuration with insulated flue works fine with the minimum smoke space and any venting system less efficient than that requires more smoke space. Also increasing in size to a larger flue reduces flue gas temperature as it expands A LOT. (from 300 down to 170 increasing from 6 to 8) You must keep flue temperature above 250* all the way up. So put your thermometer close to where it dumps into chimney for an idea of how much heat you need allowed up to achieve that temperature to the top. (mid burn or when smoke is present)

The probe type mentioned above is best but can't be moved as easy as magnetic. If you get a magnetic type that measures surface temperature, internal flue gas temperature is normally 30% to 50% higher depending on velocity and pipe cooling factors.

 

[cookin2night]

I would take out that first 90 and put in 2 45s if possible. Also make sure you have proper clearances to any combustibles. Lastly I would get a bigger hearth pad. That looks like a much to small one. Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[fireboss1237]

Once the flue is hot, the smoke leakage at joints becomes a small leak INTO the chimney, not out. That's why you notice it when first lighting. Code is 3 screws at each pipe joint.
If you crack a window nearby and light some newspaper to warm the flue it will help prevent leakage by starting the draft before lighting stove.
The more you angle the horizontal pipe upward the better.

Make sure the square inch area the smoke travels above baffle (called smoke space) is at least the square inch area of stove outlet. That would be 28.26 square inches in your case. The smoke space should be adjustable for chimney draft, not stove size. So welded in place is what you have. The more resistance (elbows, pipe length, horizontal run, cap and screen) the larger the smoke space required. I've found a straight up configuration with insulated flue works fine with the minimum smoke space and any venting system less efficient than that requires more smoke space. Also increasing in size to a larger flue reduces flue gas temperature as it expands A LOT. (from 300 down to 170 increasing from 6 to 8) You must keep flue temperature above 250* all the way up. So put your thermometer close to where it dumps into chimney for an idea of how much heat you need allowed up to achieve that temperature to the top. (mid burn or when smoke is present)

The probe type mentioned above is best but can't be moved as easy as magnetic. If you get a magnetic type that measures surface temperature, internal flue gas temperature is normally 30% to 50% higher depending on velocity and pipe cooling factors.

The smoke space area is a new term to me. Since I've never owned a wood stove before. If I take a picture would that help you determine if I'm good???

 

[fireboss1237]

I would take out that first 90 and put in 2 45s if possible. Also make sure you have proper clearances to any combustibles. Lastly I would get a bigger hearth pad. That looks like a much to small one. Good luck. Keep us posted.

The 45s are in the future. As for the pad. What is your reasoning for a bigger pad. I ask cause I don't know. This a $40 pad. Don't know is they make anything bigger that I can find. Unless I get a flat rock or you know of something...thanks

 

[coaly]

No, measure the height of the opening from baffle plate to stove top and measure width. Length X width will give you square inches of opening.
The round outlet being 6 inches in diameter is calculated as radius (3") squared or 3 X 3 = 9 X pi. or 9 X 3.14 = 28.26 square inches. That makes sure the space above baffle isn't smaller than the outlet opening.

 

[coaly]

The UL floor protector is available in different sizes for smaller stoves and for using for wall protection. Your stove would require you to build your own larger. There are many threads on R value and material requirements building your own. Floor protection also requires calculations for thermal conductivity since many materials like cement board conduct and transmit heat very well.
The reason is NFPA 211 solid fuel burning standard that codes are written from. It states you must use the manufacture installation instructions when UL listed or use the "generic" clearances and floor protection from the section for non UL Listed appliances. Insurance companies and local codes use these standards.
18" forward from door, 8" sides and rear as well as under all connector pipe.
There is a good article here on Hearth called "Installing it safely" that includes a good diagram for floor protection, but it won't load on my PC for the last week.

www.hearth.com/articles/63_0_1_0_M1.html

www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/stove_wall_clear

 

[cookin2night]

 

[cookin2night]

View attachment 168139

Something like this

 

[gzecc]

Be sure to have a CO monitor.

 

[fireboss1237]

Be sure to have a CO monitor.

I have one

 

[fireboss1237]

I'm guessing it's not getting the proper draft. Because even after the an hour of burning an pipe temperature of 250°F (which I think should be higher.) It's still smoking at the seams. Not just where 2 pipes come together. But the manufacturers crimps on the elbows. I'm going to have the chimney sweep over to inspect it

 

[cookin2night]

That sucks. What a bummer.