Wood Stove vs. Insert

[drmom123]

Hi, I was hoping to get some informed opinions to settle a "discussion" between my husband and I. A fireplace rep told me that a wood burning insert will produce just as much heat as a wood burning stove, not even using a fan. One of the Jotul inserts says it produces 65,000 btu and she says that is without a fan. We are considering the Jotul 3 CB , but an insert would probably look better in our family room and existing fireplace. We don't want this as primary heat (maybe in the spring/fall) but we would like to cut back on heating costs. Also does a stove just run you out of the room with heat? I figure with the fan and the insert you could control the heat but maybe I'm wrong. My husband thinks the insert would be a waste of money.

Also I am guessing you need to inform your insurance company about this stove/insert and does it make your rates go up usually? Currently the house has vented gas logs.

Thanks in advance,

Deb O.

 

[edthedawg]

Opinions vary wildly. Me, I'm a woodstove person, but primarily that is because we had absolutely no option to put in an insert. Some insert users complain about the heat output but I know at least a few who blast themselves out - with just their inserts! My parents leave the front door open sometimes in January here in CT, it gets so hot... It really boils down to the wood you have, the techniques you master, and the house itself in terms of insulation and heated airflow.

I think you would likely have several dozen folks here who swear up and down how well they heat w/ "just an insert"... Once you size the BTU output to the house, it shouldn't matter whether it's an insert or a stove that's outputting the heat.

As for insurance, yes - you need to get any installation permitted and inspected, and then notify your insurance company... I don't believe yo uwill incur a rate hike, esp since you already have a fireplace in the house.

As for swapping out the "vented gas logs" for a woodburning appliance, you have to evaluate what that existing construction is (i.e. hearth type/size/R-value, flue type/size, and clearance to combustibles) which may seriously impact how you wish to proceed.

Good luck!

 

[burntime]

I like inserts. They take up less space if you have a fireplace. With an insert you NEED a blower. Without it you are not getting the heat to the living areas. I heat my home with a hampton hi300. Beware, some blowers are really loud...it is pretty subjective. Wood stoves are nice too but even with a wood stove I would want a blower to circulate the heat.

 

[weezer4117]

anytime you start a fire, heat is produced the key is, how to keep it in the house. the rep didnt lie to u, an insert will produce the same amount of heat that a stove will but lets think here. if you take an insert and shove it into your firebox, without using an electric fan( im assuming you are trying to cut electric charges to), where does the heat go?? you guessed it, UP. and the only thing above an insert is a chimney, so there goes alot of your heat. now, a freestanding stove. if you place a stove out in front of your firebox there is nothing stopping it from raidiating the heat throughout the room. and by the way, once u learn how a stove works, it wont run you out of the room. you can control how hot you want it to get with draft control, same with an insert. i have lived in homes with stoves and inserts and it my personal opionin that a freestanding stove is more efficient and produces the best results. and alot of it has to do with appearence, inserts tend to look better!! good luck

 

[burntime]

Weezer, would you be stingy with a 60 watt lightbulb? Thats all the juice my insert takes...maybe 100w. If you install a block off plate the heat will not be going up either. Some believe that it is a longer heating curve because you heat the masonary and it takes time to cool. Either way a WOODBURNER is a great way to reduce your heating bills! Just make sure you are prepared to buy wood, or the tools neccessary to feed the stove! Oh, and not afraid of a little work either ;~) Burn 'em if you got 'em!

 

[weezer4117]

yea burntime, its sad. but with this economy, ill cut every corner i can!! esp when it comes to gas and electricity

 

[Todd]

I wonder if they test inserts inside a fireplace opening or just out in the open like a freestander? I think inserts are more efficient if they are installed into an inside wall fireplace, that will help keep some of the heat in the house. An outside wall fireplace can suck alot of heat away to the outdoors. Also consider a freestander has increased radiant heat output due to exposed stove and stove pipe.

 

[burntime]

My head is hurting from all this thinking ;~) Bottom line, if you have a fireplace...get an insert. If you don't have a fireplace, a stove looks nice too. Eithrer way the gas man/oil man will be cryin the blues!

 

[drmom123]

Thanks for the info. I guess it boils down to I want an insert for the look, and my husband likes the look of the stove, and argues for the stove from the more heat angle. I was hoping to blow him out of the water with all the insert folks telling me that they are just as great (and sounds like they can be with the right set up) so we need to do some more measuring and comparing. Our downstairs (main level) is around 1200 sq. feet. The family room (where the fireplace is) and kitchen are one large room with reg. height ceilings (not vaulted) and the chimney is on the outside wall. Those two rooms are the main ones to heat but ideally the whole level would be comfortable without running the furnace. Thanks again, Deb

 

[Rudyjr]

Drmom, I have had both a freestanding stove and now an insert. I believe that the heat output is similar with both if the insert is installed properly. Many installers will tell you that you do not need a block off plate in the damper area above an insert, but most people here will tell you it makes considerable difference. This will minimize the heat lost to the chimney.I installed a Jotul Kennebec insert in our masonry rec-room fireplace and we are very happy with the performance and the look. There are pictures in my signature link of our install.

 

[FrankMA]

I have a Jotul c550 insert and that heats my house quite nicely and looks really good to boot. I have a 2,000 sq. ft. colonial and it keeps the 1st floor in the 68* - 70* range and the upstairs in the 62* - 64* range (the bedrooms are upstairs so this works great). I too thought we would get roasted in the living room where it is located but the fans do a good job of circulating the heat throughout the house. Once you get it going to about 550* - 650* it really cranks out the heat.

There's been a fairly active thread on this site regarding this particular insert. It will probably give you some good insight in regards to inserts in general. Plug in "Jotul c500 Insert" in the search forums area located at the top left of this page and several posts will come up.

Best of luck!

 

[iceman]

Thanks for the info. I guess it boils down to I want an insert for the look, and my husband likes the look of the stove, and argues for the stove from the more heat angle. I was hoping to blow him out of the water with all the insert folks telling me that they are just as great (and sounds like they can be with the right set up) so we need to do some more measuring and comparing. Our downstairs (main level) is around 1200 sq. feet. The family room (where the fireplace is) and kitchen are one large room with reg. height ceilings (not vaulted) and the chimney is on the outside wall. Those two rooms are the main ones to heat but ideally the whole level would be comfortable without running the furnace. Thanks again, Deb

it is tough as your brick around the fireplace will get warm and radiate heat... when i get my insert going hot all of my tile around the stove get real warm and that is WITH a block off plate ....
however i turned my fan down on the stove and put a fan in the next room ... much better moving heat where i want it... but i would NEVER NEVER put a stove in front of a fireplace unless i did some remodeling it just doesn't appeal to MY eye.. i would rather try to fit the whole stove inside the fireplace .. buts thats my opinion ...
ps i am heating 2000+ sq ft with an insert lower level 1200 sq ft 74-76 upper level 1200+ vvaries from 74-76 in hallway with 66-70 in the rooms.... i don't really think a freestanding would do much better in my situation.. it might but for eye appeal i wouldn't put it in front of my fireplace in my living room... now maybe in the basement!!
but you gotta look at it for the next 10 years or more so i would def buy something i like to look at

 

[Rudyjr]

Iceman,I agree I would have to change alot to be able to make a stove look good also. I still have my freestanding stove from our old house and my wife and I didn't think it would look right in our fireplace. We are easily able to heat our brick ranch with our insert in the far end of a basement rec-room. And it does not run you out of the room because of the fan keeping the air moving.

 

[Dix]

Thanks for the info. I guess it boils down to I want an insert for the look, and my husband likes the look of the stove, and argues for the stove from the more heat angle. I was hoping to blow him out of the water with all the insert folks telling me that they are just as great (and sounds like they can be with the right set up) so we need to do some more measuring and comparing. Our downstairs (main level) is around 1200 sq. feet. The family room (where the fireplace is) and kitchen are one large room with reg. height ceilings (not vaulted) and the chimney is on the outside wall. Those two rooms are the main ones to heat but ideally the whole level would be comfortable without running the furnace. Thanks again, Deb

Hi Deb, welcome to the forums

I had to make a decision on stove or insert. Coulda done either one.

My chimney is centrally located, and exposed front and back, in the house (2000 sf), 1 story sprawling ranch. Ceiling fans throughout.

It came down to A: installign a wood stove, cutting the roof, ceiling, running pipe, creating a heart pad, etc. , or B: installing the insert and relining the chimney, with a block off plate at the top. I will admit to refinishing the front of the fureplace, to snazz it up ( a work still in progress ;-P )

B was much simpler. And is accomplishing the job.

I am very happy with the work that the insert is doing. With the exception of the far reaches of the house, which is a seperate accessory apartment, we're doing good. In the cold (like the snap that's coming this weekend, the best the insert can do is 60ish in there, then the oil burner will kick in (seperate zone, on it's own thermostat), to get it going the rest of the way. The main house will be in the 70's.

I did opt for an insert that did not have a flush front, and that helps throw heat as well. I also took into consideration the warranty on the insert before making a final choice.

Hope this helps !!

 

[begreen]

Deb, the Jotul F3CB is a nice little stove, but it's a little stove. You are in a cold windy state. Regardless of choice, get a stove properly sized for the heat load of the house or areas you are trying to heat. Some of the heat is going to head upstairs if there is an open staircase nearby. Account for that too when deciding on the stove size.

 

[karl]

It will still produce 65,000 btus without a fan, but it's not going to be putting that much into your house.

I have a Summit Insert. With the fan on it will really throw out some serious heat. With the fan off, not much heat at all.

As for a stove or insert. Well I think stoves are probably a little more efficient at putting heat into the house and not up the chimney, but both work fine. I would make your decision based upon what you like and what is easier to install in your house.

Make sure your gas fireplace can be converted to wood easily. Then get an insert if that's what you like.

It's 21 degrees outside right now and my living room is 75 degrees and I haven't had the furnace on at all this winter. Take a look at Pacific Energy inserts. Alot of people on here have either them or Pacific Energy stoves. And get the biggest insert you can fit in the fireplace.

 

[annette]

I have State Farm insurance, and spoke with them before installing the stove. All they required was for their agent to come inspect the installation, so I had the manual and a tape measure out when he came. I thought he'd also go look at the chimney chase in the attic, but he didn't. No additional cost on my policy. So, ask your insurance company, and then if they want you to jump through hoops, it may be time to shop around.

I agree that if you get an insert, definitely get a blower.

 

[iceman]

well you know i would just get this stove called pacific energy summit insert... don't really know why i would suggest this stove... but i have heard great things about it!! but if thats to big get a hampton hi300 those are some of the most beautiful inserts out there!

 

[velvetfoot]

Wife wife wouldn't go with a stove. In fact, she wanted the most flush insert possible for floor space reasons, not that we had that many choices with our zero clearance fireplace, local dealers, etc.
Our little insert easily heats the lower 1000 ft2 no matter how cold it gets. It definately has an effect upstairs as well but it is hard to quantify because my wife always puts up the thermostat.

During the power outage after the ice storm, the insert kept us warm but definately not as well as when the fan is running.
That might also be a function of how much the insert intrudes onto the hearth.

Btw, since the insert was pretty flush, we didn't have to make a new hearth.

If you have a masonry fireplace, I'd think about a bigger insert for longer burn times and better performance when you can't run the fan.

 

[bokehman]

I've got an insert. With an insert in an external chimney and the fan turned off you are going to waste a lot of heat even if it is producing the same quantity as the stove. If I had my time again and the situation allowed I would go for a free-stander (probably a cat). With an insert you have to run the fan to get any heat out of it, and even if the fan is fairly quite it still makes a lot more noise than no fan at all.

To get the most heat for your buck go for a free-stander located centrally in the house, with a cat, and with plenty of exposed single wall stove pipe.

 

[gpcollen1]

I think burntime was steering you in the right direction - as were some others. I have actually moved my stoves around this year trying to figure out how I am served best by them.

Insert - designed to focus it's heat outward, usually with the aid of a blower. Make certain you size this unit for the most you want out of it. My Avalon Olympic is big and it is a nice burning stove. In the warmer months, I burn smaller fires and I hardly use the blower at all. In the winter months, the blower never goes off and I load that sucker up. I actually took the surround of of it this year and then I noticed that this stove does not really radiate any heat to the sides and to the back - to counter what some folks have said regarding losing heat. If you have a good block off plate, you are golden - and a good liner.

Hearth stove - I have a Jotul Castine F400 that I love too. That stove does way better out front of the hearth b/c it radiates heat in all directions. One thing I like about it is that it heats up the masonry very well which acts as an additional heat sink/storage. If I needed more heat from that stove, I would get the F500 or F600.

I guess it depends on what you want out of the stove most of all but that insert will more than likely be everything you want and more - once you learn how to burn her right.

 

[drmom123]

This is the info my husband added if it helps. Looking thru the picture gallery has helped me get some more ideas of what the stove might look like. I only saw one fireplace that looked like ours with the rectangle opening recessed and the brick arch protruding out. If any others have dealt with something like this and added an insert ok I would love to know. I think because of this design, my husband thought the stove would be a nicer look. It sounds like either one would work heat wise for what we want it for. Thanks for all the comments!


You might add that your fireplace is a prefab metal fireplace with removable ceramic plates lining it. The opening is about 24" high and is recessed in a brick archway. Any insert will have to have custom made tin work enclosure on the front because the arch touches the top of the FP opening at the corners. The current rectangle opening for the fireplace is recessed about 4" into the arch. The chimney is an external 8"metal chimney double walled in a wood and vinyl siding enclosure. I wantsto put in a 6" SS liner in the chimney and make a plate to cover the rectangle opening for the FP. I would put a cleanout T in the fireplace to connect the liner and run the horizontal flue pipe through the panel covering the FP opening into a F3CB with shorty leg kit sitting on the hearth. Our FP has a solid masonary hearth, facing and mantle. There is no wood around or above the FP opening so combustibles are not a major concern. The wall above the mantle is sheetrock.

 

[fishinpa]

1st I will admit that I have not read more than the fist 3 or 4 replies to this post. I did want to say that I have a friend who heats a 1800 - 2000 sqf rancher with an insert at one end of it. He bought a "Country Flame" unit, which was recently acquired by Lennox.

He did mention that he was lucky enough that his mechanical room was right off of the room where the insert is, and he had a hi/low fan setting on his furnace, so he was able to add more 'intake' area off of his return vents of his furnace into that room, and runs the fan on low constantly.