Wood to Gas

[dodgerfan]

I have a wood burning fireplace with a gas starter (I’m not sure what you call it). We use the gas to start the wood on fire. Can I put fake logs around the gas starter and stop using wood?

Thanks,
Andy

 

[kevinmoelk]

Welcome to Hearth. You have gas plumbed into an appliance that you burn wood in???? Sounds like a dangerous situation to me. Do you have a picture of this set up?

-Kevin

 

[Corie]

No you can't.

I don't even want to explain the reasons why not. If you'd like a gas log set, then purchase one. Anything else is unsafe in my eyes.

 

[dodgerfan]

Here's a picture... Thanks for the answers, I'll get a professional to change it out.

Andy

 

[kevinmoelk]

Holy Crap! Very dangerous Dodgerfan! I hate to say it, but that set up is a house fire waiting to happen. Stop burning the wood. If you want gas, then just convert it. If you want wood, then disable the gas line completely. And I mean disable, removed, torn out, etc. How about a nice insert?

-Kevin

 

[dodgerfan]

Thanks, I'm trying to get my hubby to convert the fireplace totally to gas...this give me more ammo!

Andy

 

[Corie]

These logs lighters, as I've mentioned before, were popular a few years back. I don't know of the codes concerning them at this point, but from a safety standpoint they defy logic in my mind.

 

[SeanD]

To answer your question, No, you cannot just stack ceramic logs around the lighter. You need to remove the lighter exposing what I suspect will be the threaded end of a 1/2" black pipe. A gas log system will have a gas line that will connect to this. The gas log setup will have a tray that is filled with sand which is then covered with rock wool. Ceramic logs go on the grate above, pretty much like wood logs would go.

 

[Corey]

Holy Crap! Very dangerous Dodgerfan! I hate to say it, but that set up is a house fire waiting to happen. Stop burning the wood. If you want gas, then just convert it. If you want wood, then disable the gas line completely. And I mean disable, removed, torn out, etc. How about a nice insert?

-Kevin

These logs lighters, as I've mentioned before, were popular a few years back. I don't know of the codes concerning them at this point, but from a safety standpoint they defy logic in my mind.

Ha Ha...you guys! I had a similar set-up in my fireplace before I took it out to make way for the insert. I've been in dozens of houses with the same type set-up and suspect there are countless others. They may be more popular here where natural gas is a big heating fuel as well. They seem to be really popular in late 60's, most 70's and early 80's houses. I guess they may seem dangerous, but these were generally installed back in an era where people still had some personal responsibility. You just knew that if you stuck the little 'gas key' in the ubiquitous chrome plate with the square hole and cranked the valve open, you better already have a match or a lighter in front of the gas 'log' or else you might be looking at a big ball of fire pretty quick.

Corey

 

[SeanD]

Our house was built in the mid 80's and we had one installed. I never thought it was a risk since the valve was several feet from the flame and we kept the key on the mantle out of the reach of children. However, if you think about it every gas appliance in your home has a safety mechanism to prevent gas from just flowing into the home. Except the gas log lighter. If a child opens the valve gas flows until it ignites. Hopefully the house is not full of gas when ignition happens.
Won't have one in our next home (if they are even still available).

Back to the original question - when we had gas logs (ten years ago) they were the same. No thermocouple or safety mechanism. Gas just flowed until lit. Don't know if that has changed.

 

[Mo Heat]

Andy, Gas log sets are fine if you just want something to look at, but don't expect to get any meaningful heat out of them. In fact, expect to loose gobs of heat from your house when you have the flue open (don't forget that) to burn them. A whole lot of room temperature air whooshes up the average chimney and it can be pretty expensive replacing it with a gas furnace. In fact, a chimney can usually evacuate all the air volume in your home, several times in a 24 hour period.

I had two older model gas log sets in my place when I moved in. I removed one of them to install a real heating appliance. The other is still available, but I almost never burn it except for the mother-in-law's bridge club meeting that happens about once a year. It's a terrible waste of gas and really doesn't look all that great to me. But like I said, it is an older model. Some of the newer ones probably look better, but still won't put out any meaningful heat.

A high efficiency gas insert on the other hand can put out a lot of good heat.

 

[dodgerfan]

I wanted to change it to gas but it is the only heat in the bedroom. I'm in SoCal so it's not like it gets really cold but our nights have been in the low 40's this winter...so I need the heat and I certainly don't want to throw money away. What are these "inserts" everyone is talking about?

Thanks,
Andy

 

[Mo Heat]

Here's an example. There are many others. If you are in So. Cal you are probably not going to spring for something like this, as it will give you sticker shock compared to the log sets you may have been looking at.

(broken link removed to http://www.jotul.us/content/products/ProductArticle____3129.aspx)

But this dude will put out bona fide heat at 87% efficiency. That's better than my forced air gas furnace. The logs sets will essentially remove heat from the room, and the house, but look pretty. There may be other options that I hesitate to suggest, but maybe some of the pro's will weigh in here.

 

[dodgerfan]

Cool! You've given me some direction in what to look for. Thanks!

Andy

 

[Gooserider]

Just as a note, I had a couple of uncles that built homes in the Northern Louisianna area (Ruston) and those gas log lighter units were a standard feature in every fireplace I saw them put in.... I never saw much sense in them as anybody that's passed Basic Boy Scout should know how to build a fire with minimal effort using kindling, etc., but those log lighters were standard. However the word was they didn't put out that big a gas volume - about like a stove burner. (I never saw one in use, as we were out of there before the house got far enough along to have the gas turned on) Dangerous if ignored, but not as bad as they could be.

Gooserider

 

[Mo Heat]

Hi Goose, I'm a northern Louisiana boy myself (Shreveport during the formative years), fishing many a bayou.

I had one of those log lighters in northerm California. Mine was a standard looking, threaded pipe with a cap on one end. May have been black pipe, may have been regular iron water pipe, it was hard to tell. And there was a key to one side of the fireplace opening for turning on the gas. The pipe had holes drilled on opposite sides about every two or three inches as I remember it. But it put out quite a bit of flame. Seemed like a whole lot more than a burner as it wasn't carberated at all like all burners I've seen. So what gas was shot out of there wasn't burned very efficiently. I never thought much about it being dangerous, but I guess it was since it had no auto shut-off valve. I replaced it with a log set that also had no safety valve.

As an interesting note. Both my fireplaces are plumbed for gas here in Missouri. Both had log sets when I moved in. When I had the insert installed, I thought I should remove the gas feed that still penetrated into the fireplace about 3 inches, but the installer told me it was nothing to be concerned about. He reminded me that I'd had open flame and embers in there before the insert and now I had a modest clearance to hot cast iron with a heat shield (the convection shroud) between the two. Seemed reasonable, so I left it alone rather than go to a fair amount of effort to remove it, cap it somewhere outside, and plug the penetration. 3 years and so far, so good.

On a side note, how about putting up a pic of that Italian beauty you ride daily in the "Mug" thread? I'd love to see it. I have always had a fascination with those. I once owned an Italian Harley Davidson back in 1969 or so, that was a nice little machine. The Italians were quite famous for their engine castings back then, and of course their styling, as they still are famous today. Some of the stuff in between casting and styling was kind of iffy back then, but I know the MG was sort of a national, mechanical treasure. Like the Maserati of motorcycles. Well, I guess that would be the Ducati, so maybe there's a better comparison.

 

[Gooserider]

Hi Goose, I'm a northern Louisiana boy myself (Shreveport during the formative years), fishing many a bayou.

Well my mothers clan is mostly from more the Ruston / Farmerville / Monroe area - She was the oldest of 7 kids in the Love family, which is one of the MANY branches of the Garris clan - (Great Uncle Tom Garris had 3 wives (in a row) and a large number of kids from each one....)

I had one of those log lighters in northerm California. Mine was a standard looking, threaded pipe with a cap on one end. May have been black pipe, may have been regular iron water pipe, it was hard to tell. And there was a key to one side of the fireplace opening for turning on the gas. The pipe had holes drilled on opposite sides about every two or three inches as I remember it. But it put out quite a bit of flame. Seemed like a whole lot more than a burner as it wasn't carberated at all like all burners I've seen. So what gas was shot out of there wasn't burned very efficiently. I never thought much about it being dangerous, but I guess it was since it had no auto shut-off valve. I replaced it with a log set that also had no safety valve.

As an interesting note. Both my fireplaces are plumbed for gas here in Missouri. Both had log sets when I moved in. When I had the insert installed, I thought I should remove the gas feed that still penetrated into the fireplace about 3 inches, but the installer told me it was nothing to be concerned about. He reminded me that I'd had open flame and embers in there before the insert and now I had a modest clearance to hot cast iron with a heat shield (the convection shroud) between the two. Seemed reasonable, so I left it alone rather than go to a fair amount of effort to remove it, cap it somewhere outside, and plug the penetration. 3 years and so far, so good.

That makes sense to me - Iron pipe is pretty rugged stuff, and unless you burn a hole in it and make it leak, the gas inside doesn't care how hot it gets - it can't burn or otherwise do anything if it doesn't have any oxygen to mix with.... If you had a closed cylinder, you might have a problem from the pressure increase, but that isn't going to be a factor with a piped setup as you won't get enough heat to cause a measurable pressure change. Even the lighters would be reasonably safe in that regard since there isn't going to be any gas in them except when the valve is turned on.

Gas safety didn't seem to be a big issue back then, people knew it was dangerous if misused, and anyone dumb enough to blow themselves up didn't get a whole lot of sympathy. I know my grandmothers house was primarily heated with gas wall heaters that cooked ceramic blocks - AFAIK they had no thermocouples or other safety shutoffs, weren't vented, had no oxygen depletion sensors etc. You turned them on with a valve at the heater box, and lit them with a match... They put out nice heat, and we all lived through them. I guess either gas has gotten more dangerous, or people have gotten more stupid as I don't think those heaters are legal any more...

On a side note, how about putting up a pic of that Italian beauty you ride daily in the "Mug" thread? I'd love to see it. I have always had a fascination with those. I once owned an Italian Harley Davidson back in 1969 or so, that was a nice little machine. The Italians were quite famous for their engine castings back then, and of course their styling, as they still are famous today. Some of the stuff in between casting and styling was kind of iffy back then, but I know the MG was sort of a national, mechanical treasure. Like the Maserati of motorcycles. Well, I guess that would be the Ducati, so maybe there's a better comparison.

I have a digital camera, but we've never taken many pictures of the place or of my bike. The bike really isn't much to look at - I refer to it as an "award winning show bike - rat class" I've never been one to clean it other than to work on things, and it shows.... Everything does what it should, but it isn't much to look at.

Actually MG probably does have the best claim to being the "Maserati of motorcycles" - for many years, they were owned by DeTomaso Ind. which also owned Maserati, so there was a definite family connection. I seem to recall that the engineer who came up with the "Tonti frame" Guzzi's (starting with V7 Sports up until very recently, it was a very long running frame design) also worked for Maserati.

Gooserider