Workmanlike Basement Baseboard

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.

velvetfoot

Minister of Fire
Dec 5, 2005
10,202
Sand Lake, NY
My oil boiler is already setup to easily add a zone, which I would like to do in the basement.
I have 4" of XPS foam on the walls with furring strips and will put on drywall, hopefully sooner rather than later.

What would be a good looking way to plumb in the baseboard heat?
Should I bury the pipe in the foam, and then cover with drywall, or leave everything exposed?
It's not like the rest of the house, where the pipe just pops up from the floor.
 
Thought about just putting it in the walls on top of foam but below drywall, using pex tubing ??
 
In my case, no gap - I'll have to rout a groove, which is not hard.
I hadn't even thought about pex...
 
Just for fun, and in the name of science, take a piece of that foam outside and put a match to it at the bottom. Watch how fast the flame spreads.

Imagine that happening in your basement.

That might help you decide to do the drywall sooner, rather than later.

Saw some flame cutting sparks touch off some styrofoam scraps piled in the corner of the shop. You'd be surprised how fast a couple of pot-bellied middle-aged guys can move.
 
Thanks for the safety tip. It does take a little bit of effort to light it off.
I've been meaning to get to it, but other stuff has been getting in the way.

I've never used a hot knife.
I've used a router for the wiring, and it's not that bad and no odor.

So, I should conceal the pipe?
 
concealing the pipe is up to you and your sprite of adventure, there is not a safety issue with it as far as the foam goes- I don't think the foam meets the E-84 flame spread and smoke index for being left exposed.
 
If the pipe gets up to 180F the foam will melt.
It will probably melt through to the basement wall.

Cut out some of the XPS and use Polyiso foam where the pipe is. This will not melt.
 
Tom you probably are correct in that, guessing you been there too. In my mind, but not posted, I was thinking about 120 degree water, don't have much experience with hydro walls but the load is small so the water temp can be low.
 
That would be fine.

Yes, I have done that.

About 30 years ago, I thought XPS would be great for covers and bases on tanks.
It was until the water went above 160F. Then it looked like a blow torch was on it.
Was pretty cool.
 
I have that effect on the foam pipe insulation near the boiler, but nowhere else. Not same material, I know.
I don't think the temp would get to 180 there in the pipe system, esp. with the outdoor reset, but maybe.
Would pex provide just enough insulation to prevent this effect?
 
Unfortunately, PEX will get just as hot. There is a small time lag across the wall, but it is basically the same.
 
It has to be a little less, as in the temperature gradient across the thickness of a styrofoam coffee cup making it possible to pick it up without getting burned.
 
Actually not. Styrofoam and other foams have small trapped air or gas spaces, which makes them a lot less conductive while PEX is solid.

The wall thickness of PEX is also thin enough that although there is a small time lag, it performs the
similar to copper.

This is one reason we use it for radiant applications and solar applications like on www.builditsolar.com
 
Just an aside to the above discussion: Code requirement here is to have such a system (high temp) mounted on a finished wall. No concealing allowed, of either pipe or emmiters. May be worth a call to local officials as you wouldn't want to void the water & fire damage portions of your house ins by concealing something you shouldn't. If you can conceal in your area please do not use a router on the foam. They spin at 10,000 - 25,000 RPM depending on model. The foam will melt, not cut, this will coat the router bit causing it to overheat. Bits usually break where head & shank meet & at that speed it means a trip to the ER if it hits you. Far safer & easier to use a hot knife, most rentals shops have them if you dont want to purchase one.
 
I've routed and dadoed many grooves in XPS without a problem.
It creates a lot of foam dust, and can bind when being cut with a table saw, but that's it.
Maybe you're talking about some other kind of foam.

None of the heating pipe in my fairly new house is exposed; it comes up through the wood floors and then goes into the emitters.
Baseboard heat would be quite ugly if all the pipe was exposed.
 
My comment on concealing pipe was intended to refer to walls as that is where I assumed the foam would be removed from, based on the discussion in the thread. I didn't think you had foam in your floors. Basically the same procedure here. Pipe up through floor & from that point all must be exposed on the interior of structure, pipe & fittings (plumbing code) distance/separation from combustibles (fire code).
 
Frozen Canuck said:
Just an aside to the above discussion: Code requirement here is to have such a system (high temp) mounted on a finished wall. No concealing allowed, of either pipe or emmiters. May be worth a call to local officials as you wouldn't want to void the water & fire damage portions of your house ins by concealing something you shouldn't. If you can conceal in your area please do not use a router on the foam. They spin at 10,000 - 25,000 RPM depending on model. The foam will melt, not cut, this will coat the router bit causing it to overheat. Bits usually break where head & shank meet & at that speed it means a trip to the ER if it hits you. Far safer & easier to use a hot knife, most rentals shops have them if you dont want to purchase one.

I have roughly 250' of concealed 5/8" kitec pipe for my baseboards in the joists between the 1st. and 2nd. floor . I didnt look in the code for this area ,but the inspector passed it.
So I guess its ok.
 
What code do they use in Canada, It's close but never worked there, "can't see it from my house either" LOL The states tried to get on one code, but that wasn't good enough for some areas and they added stuff. Had a friend of a friend who sat on the code board for Michigan and it is all political and turf wars and egos and agendas and not much about common sense or safety
 
velvetfoot said:
Geez, I look to see what kitec is, and I come up with this, jeez-ya just can't win.
http://kiteclawsuit.com/

Yes I read all that stuff,apparently its the domestic water applications that the problems stem from .and not heating. I think places like LA and Las Vegas had water that the kitec fittings didnt like.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.