WOW, read this for those of us preparing to buy a new stove

[Nevada]

http://www.jamesrussellpublishing.biz/pelletstove.html

This guy obviously got burned by a dealer or two, but I found some good information in the read. Cant be to careful as im finding out the dealers I have visited are more like car dealers then anything. This is why im leaning towards installing my insert myself, the dealer I have been talking to is going to **** me for full MSRP on the stove, install, and accesories. I am in a small area with only one major dealer with the brands I want, so I may just pick one up out of town...... :smirk: But im already missing the simple-ness of my old homes wood stove...Not much drama there. Oh well, choices, choices...... :zip:

BTW I didnt post this to ruffle feathers, but there is some good consumer advice in the link....and Im still buying a pellet stove, just wanna make the right choice !! :coolsmile:

 

[ARGlock]

http://www.jamesrussellpublishing.biz/pelletstove.html

This guy obviously got burned by a dealer or two, but I found some good information in the read. Cant be to careful as im finding out the dealers I have visited are more like car dealers then anything. This is why im leaning towards installing my insert myself, the dealer I have been talking to is going to **** me for full MSRP on the stove, install, and accesories. I am in a small area with only one major dealer with the brands I want, so I may just pick one up out of town...... :smirk: But im already missing the simple-ness of my old homes wood stove...Not much drama there. Oh well, choices, choices...... :zip:

BTW I didnt post this to ruffle feathers, but there is some good consumer advice in the link....and Im still buying a pellet stove, just wanna make the right choice !! :coolsmile:

Most dealers will try and sell at MSRP during the season and after the season may offer a discount. Also remember that most honest dealers know they will have to live with the customer for many years and to sell a stove with a margin of $200 makes no sense!! They will have to listen to many customers that know nothing about maintaining a unit and raise a fit because it won't run. If the customer learned how to properly clean and maintain the unit they wouldn't need to call the dealer all the time!

So put yourself in the dealer's place sometime. Are you willing to sell a unit and make $200 and listen to every issue the customer has for 10 years or more? I don't think so. It could mean receiving calls even on weekends to make your customer happy.

If you can find a reputable local dealer, they can be well worth trading with. Driving 100 miles or more, or waiting on UPS to deliver a parts shipment is not good in bad ice/snow storms etc.

Just my 2 cents worth. (PS: I'm responding to the original writer of the link not the member posting here.)

AR

 

[smwilliamson]

Manifesto! Way too much time on your hands.

 

[mascoma]

That link is a crazy waste of time and contained NO useful information.

 

[ARGlock]

Manifesto! Way too much time on your hands.

I agree 100%. Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much time on the author's hands. Your typical dealer would crumble that up and start a fire in one of their display units with it.

What I see a lot of times is the average "customer" not having enough knowledge or respect for the units and dealers they are trying to do business with. Most customers don't know squat about the unit they own, good cleaning practices or know what it takes to run a business.

2 more cents.

AR

 

[rona]

As with many things in life there is always the first "time". As a new customer who doesn't know anything about pellet stoves he has to learn from scratch and is relying on a dealer to offer some of his knowledge.
Not everyone has a neighbor, brother, or friend who already has one and can give good advice. We all have different expectations of what we want "our" stove to do. Some may be unrealistic and he should either lower his expectations or find a different method of heating his home.
I firmly believe that 90% of the stoves problems are operator error, bad fuel, dirty stove or dirty pipe. Having said that I also believe a good dealer should show the customer how to clean the stove plus the hidden spots the book doesn't show thus avoiding a extra expense later for the customer.
People are human and some catch on faster then others. Dealers have to remember that they have lots more experience with their product and be a little patient with the new sometimes nervous customer.
I have had experience with good dealers, poor dealers and no dealer in that order. The best deal was no dealer as I knew there was no dealer support but I could order parts direct from the company. I had enough experience by then to take care of things myself.
The best dealer was one who would take the time to show the customer how the stove operates and do a mock cleaning with the customer before he buys the stove so the customer knows what is expected.
There is no great mystery with stoves. The simple ones provide just as much heat as the complicated ones only have less to go wrong. If you want automation expect some maintenence such as replacing igniters, stirrers.

 

[jtakeman]

Geez, I could not read the whole thing. I kept dozing off! :shut: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

 

[hearthtools]

Sounds like an ass
I would hate to see his Review of his wedding night.

 

[Fsappo]

"raping me at full retail" I guess I'm a rapist to the majority of my customers from Oct-Feb. Except on some venting where the margins allow for a discount. I love retail

 

[ARGlock]

"raping me at full retail" I guess I'm a rapist to the majority of my customers from Oct-Feb. Except on some venting where the margins allow for a discount. I love retail

Shame on you Franks! Can't believe you would do such a thing to your customers. Some folks don't understand we have to make a living for the whole year during the heating season.

Good luck on your sales this season

AR

 

[Nevada]

I understand biz is biz, but I expected some kind of bundle discount or deal if you will. If your going to buy the stove, surround, pellets, install etc.... Maybe a 10% discount, which I think would be the case if there were any compitition in my area, as I have called other surrounding states and found the stoves I am looking at for 10-15% cheaper than my dealer. :smirk: So its not as if everyone is charging MSRP.

 

[ARGlock]

I understand biz is biz, but I expected some kind of bundle discount or deal if you will. If your going to buy the stove, surround, pellets, install etc.... Maybe a 10% discount, which I think would be the case if there were any compitition in my area, as I have called other surrounding states and found the stoves I am looking at for 10-15% cheaper than my dealer. :smirk: So its not as if everyone is charging MSRP.

You will occassionally find a high volume dealer willing to discount. The thing is not everybody lives near a high volume dealer and the little you will save will be eaten up by gas and time driving to them or shipping. If there is a big problem with electrical issues, snap discs, wiring harness, computer box that you can't pinpoint the local dealer is well worth the little extra to have him near. The average pellet stove customer will not take the time to be a real guru of his unit. Even if you do know something about the unit, it could be a tuff issue to diagnose. One could be without a stove for a couple of weeks in this case. If you were dealing with a far away dealer it could make the down time much longer.

Just a few thoughts.

AR

 

[stoveguy2esw]

wow acres and acres of "sour grapes" cant even make grappa from them they are so sour! i expect there are a few unscrupulous dealers out in the world but JEEZ poor guy either had a massive series of bad experiences , or was a brutally picky customer (decebel meter and multiple measurements?? ) restocking fees? i never heard of a restocking fee on a defective unit , only "buyer remorse"

note the mention of the high altitude oriface for gas , in a vent free you have very few options at altitude one would expect a dealer to explain this pre-purchase i know i do when i get questioned about them i ask about altitude and explain the ramifications.

my read is the guy is probably not a customer i would want to take on

 

[rona]

you work for 6 months and expect to make enough for the other 6? Most stoves dealers I know diversify so they are busy 12 months.
About discounts, the dealer can pad the est so he can give you a big discount to make you feel good.
Truthfully a dealer has to make money or he won't be in business. The question always is what is reasonable and what is price gouging.
Good competition will solve price gouging.
I know several people that bought stoves knowing they would be their own labor force as they live a long ways from the dealer. Ask people from Montana, South and North Dakota how they service their equipment. Most do it themselves and get parts via UPS or Post Office. If they can do it most other people could do the same thing.

 

[BrotherBart]

Pay attention folks. The OP is in Nevada and his scrupulous search of the Internet came up with a long winded recommendation for a dealer in Nevada.

 

[smwilliamson]

The only real evil I see from time to time is the attitude : "we service only what we sell". You would expect any dealer for Brand X to service Brand X regardless of where it was bought, but such is not the case. So, when purchasing a new unit from any dealer you have to make sure that your dealer is someone you can get along with. This puts the consumer at a real disadvantage as they are not quite as free to shop around if like dealers are 50+ miles away from each other. Where you will drive to to buy something is completely different from where a dealer will drive to for service. Imagine if the car you bought could only be serviced at the dealer you bought it from? The majors would be out of business.

Many dealers charge whatever the heck they want...and who would blame them. If you want brand x here's the price...otherwise go buy something else.

It will all come full circle. Wait until oil hits 1.98 again. Whomever sold the stove will no longer matter as service will be the only means of survival. Pay attention folks.

Until then...gouge away.

 

[smwilliamson]

James Russel Publishing...according to them, they maintain one of the worlds largest websites.

With long winded posts like the pellet stove thread, I almost believe them.

 

[krooser]

After spending 6+ years selling new and used cars I can tell you that the guy who comes in and wants you to sell him the vehicle at zero profit is the same guy that will piss and moan about every inch of every part of the car until the warranty is up... then you'll never see him again. Hopefully the next time he'll buy from someone else so THEY can have the pleasure of doing business with him.

 

[Nevada]

Accused of being a Troll Not I, but I understand the suspicion, I found that link by looking for stove dealers in Reno, doing some price comparisions. Twas not my intent to get folks worked up, just didnt like the "car dealership feeling" I got at a dealer this past weekend. I also understand folks trying to survive in a money tight economy, I just want to get the best bang for my buck like the next guy :-S Im leaning towards the Harman Accentra, but was set on the Quad Classic Bay 1200I, but I change my mind almost daily. I like the consistent good reviews of the CB, but the fit and finish on the Accentra has won me over I think. I also dig the pull out rail system, as I can maintain an insert a little easier that way (I think). :coolsmirk:

 

[krooser]

Dealer service is the #1 deal for me when I bought my (used) stove... the savings of a little better price is lost when your 'local' dealer won't do warranty service on the stove you bought from a distant dealer...

If you don't mind doing repairs yourself that's different... but many first time pellet users fail to realize that these stove require a little bit of effort to keep running properly... not having prompt warranty service (or ANY service for that matter) is a big problem.

 

[mascoma]

I understand biz is biz, but I expected some kind of bundle discount or deal if you will. If your going to buy the stove, surround, pellets, install etc.... Maybe a 10% discount, which I think would be the case if there were any compitition in my area, as I have called other surrounding states and found the stoves I am looking at for 10-15% cheaper than my dealer. :smirk: So its not as if everyone is charging MSRP.

Why do people expect a volume discount??? you are not buying 10 stoves, you are buying to materials for proper installation of one.
do you ask for a discount at the grocery store becuase, well... you didn't just buy they steak... you have a whole cart full of stuff?

Surrounding states??? States are big out west, how far are you going for a stove?
You might be interested that pellets seem to be very reasonably priced in the midwest.

 

[Nevada]

If I was buying a steak for 3-4g's I would shop around also, thats a good steak :coolgrin: . When you live in the rural west, its not at all uncommon to make big purchases out of state, we dont have a strip mall every 2 miles, and its called good marketing to sell a packaged deal, even if the discount is minimal... It beats the "you can buy it here for full price or go somewhere else" theroy, at least from a consumer point of view..... :zip: Cuz im the guy that will go somewhere else...

 

[camdids]

So am I missing something. If you can get it "somewhere else" at a price you prefer to pay, then why are we discussing it.

 

[Nevada]

Cuz its a forum, its for discussion :cheese: Never the less, I see you have an accentra insert, how do you like it ? How was the install ? would you do it again ? Any issues, if so what kind and were they easy fixes ??? Im 90% decided on that stove....Appreciate the response ahead of time. Its a fairly heavy stove, was it a 2 or three man operation to get i into position? :zip: Im a little turned off by the lack of remote or wall thermostat, I dont even see that as an option through Harman, has that been an issue with you?

 

[camdids]

Hey, Just Discussing.
If you decide on the Accentra Insert, I would recommend it. I went for it primarily because it would fit into my Fireplace and a freestanding wouldnt have looked right. I installed myself, but I should say I had a Good dealer(Actually someone I knew who worked at the Dealers) who took some time before I purchased, to show me all th eparts and how it worked. He told me how easy it would be to do. ( It saved me the $395 Installation fee they charged)
I only needed help from a neighbor to carry it off the back of the truck and up four outside steps to my Living Room. The Wife wasnt quite strong enough. Installing was very simple.
The wall thermostat issue has never been a problem to me. I think they can be used with this model, BUT only to turn it on and off,not to control the Temp. I run it on Room Temp Mode al the time and have found it to be pretty close to its set Temp Control. Its situated in a Living Room in an Open Plan house, two Story of about 1300 Sq Ft per Floor. Enough heat goes up the stairs from Natural Drafting, to keep Three Bedrooms at around 63-64F. I have learnt to use Fans to help Circulate the heat and in normal Winter months can get it to around 65-66F. ( We would only have the Oil heat set to 64 before).
I clean regularly and Do my Own Annual cleaning.(Again I had someone to tell me what was needed).
Its been Two very warm Winters so far with it up here in the North East.
Hope this helps with your decision and I wish you all the Best with whatever you get.
If theres anything else I can tell you let me know.
Good Luck