WS Progress Hybrid installed and running!

[John Kuhn]

Got my new Progress Hybrid installed yesterday. Ya gotta love it when a plan comes together, as it went quite smoothly. I spent a bunch of time rigging up ramps, made a platform to transition from the entryway to the raised hearth in our sunken living room without having to go down and back up. Rented Home Depot’s largest appliance dolly, and had three helpers.

I’ve had two fires so far, and yesterday for the first fire I let it get up to 400 F with the thermometer placed on the cover over what would otherwise be the top flue exit. Lots of stink to burn off, lucky me it was over 50 degrees in Feb and we could open the windows. For today’s fire I let it get up to 500 F, and much less smell, so I think we’re over that issue.

Lots of plusses with this stove compared to our old 20 yr old VC Defiant (already sold for $200, multiple calls from interested parties):
· I’m super impressed with how easy and clean it burns, haven’t seen any visible smoke from my chimney.
· Catalytic mode seems to work very well, although I don’t have a cat thermometer to measure temps to tell when it’s active. Love how easy it is to access the catalyst for cleaning or replacement.
· View of the fire is really outstanding, especially fun to see the secondary air igniting the smoke through the pattern of small holes in the ceiling.
· I’ve found that for my chimney and draft I’m able to set the air control on the lowest setting, get a good burn, and no back puffing or soot on the glass. Wondering if in cold weather with stronger draft I may need to install a chimney damper to prevent it burning too hot even at the lowest setting.
· The way the stove holds heat is noticeably better than my old stove, definitely a plus! I’m looking forward to a cold snap, so I can experience the heat output and efficiency.
· Love the giant ash drawer.
· And last but not least the stove is gorgeous in our living room!

The top loading of the old VC is still hard to beat in my mind, compared to side or front loading. But on the other hand, no need to move my water kettle when loading, and no debris on the top of the stove.

In the interest of continuous improvement, there are a few minor things which could easily make this terrific stove even better:
· First, there is no means of leveling the stove. I’m on an irregular limestone slab hearth, which isn’t perfectly flat, and I’m wondering how I can raise up the front about ¼”. The reason is the tip is just enough for the side load door not to stay open, which is annoying. Looking for any clever ideas on what to put under the feet. I’m half considering having them drilled and tapped, but doesn’t look like there’s a lot of casting to do that. My old stove had a leveler bolt on each foot.
· Second, there isn’t any way I can see other than gloves to be able to operate the bypass control when it’s hot. I don’t see how the current fall away handle would engage it, but seems like it would be simple to design it so that it would have features to engage the bypass control as well as the loading door.
· Last, the lifting tab on the top center stone aligns almost perfectly with the tab which is used to lift the cast iron top beneath the stone. Therefore, when the stove is hot and you want to flip up the stone to put something on the griddle, you have to use a screwdriver or something narrow to separate the two tabs to where you can get your gloved finger under the stone’s tab. If the stone’s tab were 1/8” longer you could catch hold of it more easily.

Sorry about the sideways image, not sure how to load it straight. My file shows it straight.

 

[esscontracting]

Got my new Progress Hybrid installed yesterday. Ya gotta love it when a plan comes together, as it went quite smoothly. I spent a bunch of time rigging up ramps, made a platform to transition from the entryway to the raised hearth in our sunken living room without having to go down and back up. Rented Home Depot’s largest appliance dolly, and had three helpers.

I’ve had two fires so far, and yesterday for the first fire I let it get up to 400 F with the thermometer placed on the cover over what would otherwise be the top flue exit. Lots of stink to burn off, lucky me it was over 50 degrees in Feb and we could open the windows. For today’s fire I let it get up to 500 F, and much less smell, so I think we’re over that issue.

Lots of plusses with this stove compared to our old 20 yr old VC Defiant (already sold for $200, multiple calls from interested parties):
· I’m super impressed with how easy and clean it burns, haven’t seen any visible smoke from my chimney.
· Catalytic mode seems to work very well, although I don’t have a cat thermometer to measure temps to tell when it’s active. Love how easy it is to access the catalyst for cleaning or replacement.
· View of the fire is really outstanding, especially fun to see the secondary air igniting the smoke through the pattern of small holes in the ceiling.
· I’ve found that for my chimney and draft I’m able to set the air control on the lowest setting, get a good burn, and no back puffing or soot on the glass. Wondering if in cold weather with stronger draft I may need to install a chimney damper to prevent it burning too hot even at the lowest setting.
· The way the stove holds heat is noticeably better than my old stove, definitely a plus! I’m looking forward to a cold snap, so I can experience the heat output and efficiency.
· Love the giant ash drawer.
· And last but not least the stove is gorgeous in our living room!

The top loading of the old VC is still hard to beat in my mind, compared to side or front loading. But on the other hand, no need to move my water kettle when loading, and no debris on the top of the stove.

In the interest of continuous improvement, there are a few minor things which could easily make this terrific stove even better:
· First, there is no means of leveling the stove. I’m on an irregular limestone slab hearth, which isn’t perfectly flat, and I’m wondering how I can raise up the front about ¼”. The reason is the tip is just enough for the side load door not to stay open, which is annoying. Looking for any clever ideas on what to put under the feet. I’m half considering having them drilled and tapped, but doesn’t look like there’s a lot of casting to do that. My old stove had a leveler bolt on each foot.
· Second, there isn’t any way I can see other than gloves to be able to operate the bypass control when it’s hot. I don’t see how the current fall away handle would engage it, but seems like it would be simple to design it so that it would have features to engage the bypass control as well as the loading door.
· Last, the lifting tab on the top center stone aligns almost perfectly with the tab which is used to lift the cast iron top beneath the stone. Therefore, when the stove is hot and you want to flip up the stone to put something on the griddle, you have to use a screwdriver or something narrow to separate the two tabs to where you can get your gloved finger under the stone’s tab. If the stone’s tab were 1/8” longer you could catch hold of it more easily.

Sorry about the sideways image, not sure how to load it straight. My file shows it straight.

View attachment 223681

You could get pieces of sheet metal to help shim each individual leg

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[weatherguy]

Get some kind of shim for the leg. You should be able to lift the top middle stone piece by using the gold tab, it protrudes slightly from the tab underneath. Not sure if I'm explaining it well but you don't need any tools to lift it, I do mine all the time.
Congrats on the install, that was the most daunting task for me, but once it's on your hearth it's a beautiful thing and that baby will give you some heat when you need it.

 

[edyit]

looks very nice! for leveling the legs you should be able to get some 1/4" flat stock steel and be able to cut it to fit under the legs so it's not noticeable.

 

[John Kuhn]

Get some kind of shim for the leg. You should be able to lift the top middle stone piece by using the gold tab, it protrudes slightly from the tab underneath. Not sure if I'm explaining it well but you don't need any tools to lift it, I do mine all the time.
Congrats on the install, that was the most daunting task for me, but once it's on your hearth it's a beautiful thing and that baby will give you some heat when you need it.

On mine the gold tab for the stone does not protrude enough past the tab for the iron part that I can grab it with gloves on. No big deal if the stove is cold and not wearing gloves, but difficult with gloves unless you get separation by prying with something.

 

[John Kuhn]

looks very nice! for leveling the legs you should be able to get some 1/4" flat stock steel and be able to cut it to fit under the legs so it's not noticeable.

Thanks, that's what I'm thinking as well. Thought there might be something better looking or more clever out there, but flat stock should work.

 

[KennyK]

looks very nice! for leveling the legs you should be able to get some 1/4" flat stock steel and be able to cut it to fit under the legs so it's not noticeable.

Looks beautiful, and love your detailed description!

My hearth slopes down a fair amount and I needed to level the front legs quite a bit. The chimney company that did the install said that I could use washers, but as I didn't have any on hand, they suggested using quarters saying that they work great. My stove is a lot smaller than yours, but over the past couple months, the quarters have worked great (I've got about an extra $2.50 into the stove!), are barely noticeable (and when you do look closely, they look cool), and are a good size to adjust to the specific height needed as you can just add and take away to get everything level. Also, no sharp edges. More knowledgeable people here you may feel this is not the best approach, but I thought I would put it out there.

 

[Rearscreen]

Second, there isn’t any way I can see other than gloves to be able to operate the bypass control when it’s hot. I don’t see how the current fall away handle would engage it, but seems like it would be simple to design it so that it would have features to engage the bypass control as well as the loading door.

That's the latest in proper cat engage temperature technology. Feel O' Flip it's called. If it burns, time to flip!

 

[trguitar]

Nice install. You are going to love the stove. I just use a pot holder when touching the bypass. When the stove cools to below 200 I can often grab it with my hands.

 

[weatherguy]

On mine the gold tab for the stone does not protrude enough past the tab for the iron part that I can grab it with gloves on. No big deal if the stove is cold and not wearing gloves, but difficult with gloves unless you get separation by prying with something.

Slide the middle piece forward a tad, there's some wiggle room on where you place it. Sounds like yours it too far back

 

[John Kuhn]

Slide the middle piece forward a tad, there's some wiggle room on where you place it. Sounds like yours it too far back

So I sent an email to WS yesterday to share my various observations and questions, and of course today I had a response back, very impressive for customer service!

In a nutshell, they've considered different leg adjustment methods but have not settled on one they're completely comfortable with. Regarding the lifting of the center stone, it turns out the stove came with a tool for that. It looks a little like a metal ice scraper, and I thought it was for scraping ashes through the grate, but it's for prying up all three stones. On the center one, of course it easily fits between the two tabs or elsewhere on the stone.. Lastly, regarding the bypass control, there was a plan to change it, but an issue came up at the last minute, and they had to stick with the brass knob for now.

I bought some thick washers to put under the legs, will jack it up this evening and try them out. Man, that stove sure burns nice. Today after burning the startup wood, around 6:30 a.m. I loaded it with four or five decent sized pieces of wood, probably 3/4 full, and it put on a beautiful display of flames for the longest time, both primary and from the secondary air, even at the lowest setting. Stove top temp got up to 550, and I let it go out after that because the house would get too hot (it's near 40 outside). Right now the stove is still warm to the touch, but not sure there is much left for red coals.

I think this hybrid design is excellent, because it seems the secondary air cleans up most of the smoke, capturing more heat, which means less work/heat for the catalyst to deal with. So at least in my mind, that makes it a more robust design.

 

[livetosail]

You could get pieces of sheet metal to help shim each individual leg.

That’s exactly what I did with mine. Worked great. Mine has a metal skirt that hides the shims completely.

By the way, can’t wait to see that beautiful white hearthpad after a full season of use! I installed mine last fall using reddish paving stones, thinking it would handle the soot and ash sprinkles well... now it looks quite dirty. Oh well. Comes with the territory, I guess.


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[John Kuhn]

That’s exactly what I did with mine. Worked great. Mine has a metal skirt that hides the shims completely.

By the way, can’t wait to see that beautiful white hearthpad after a full season of use! I installed mine last fall using reddish paving stones, thinking it would handle the soot and ash sprinkles well... now it looks quite dirty. Oh well. Comes with the territory, I guess.


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Installed two washers under each front foot last night, solved the problem with the door wanting to swing closed. They're not real noticeable and the stove is stable.

Regarding the limestone hearthpad, believe it or not it's had a wood burner on it for 31 years, gets a little dirty sometimes, but my wife seems to know what tricks it takes to get the stains off. Otherwise vacuuming it once a week does the job. By the way, having been a fan of top loading all these years, I see now an advantage of the side loading, and that is hearth and stove top cleanliness. The front area is always clean now, and any wood and ash debris is confined to the little area between the wood bucket and stove. My wife is a convert!

Tried a top down start this morning, and found it to be preferred when there aren't any hot coals left. If like me you don't use much paper, it's much easier to light the paper on top than try and get to it down below. Top down certainly takes much longer to heat up, though, but maybe that's better for the stove anyway.

The other day when there were just a few glowing coals left I put the kindling on those impossibly few coals, built the pile up from there, opened the ash drawer for a few seconds and had a good fire going in no time. I know, I know, not an approved technique!

Tomorrow morning, after four (short) days of burning, I should probably empty the ash drawer, but that's half as often as I used to empty it. Life is good!

 

[John Kuhn]

More experience with my Progress Hybrid:

Had family come over yesterday afternoon, wanted to show it off to them but too warm and sunny outside to burn all day, so I waited till late afternoon to fire it up. Lit a top down fire at 4:30 p.m., got it going nicely, then reloaded probably ~3/4 full or better at 6:30 p.m., and turned it down to the lowest setting after the fresh load was nicely lit. Enjoyed the fire show for awhile, then noticed at 8 p.m. the flames had disappeared and it back puffed a couple of times. Increased the air until the flames came back, and then reset the air to just above the lowest setting, and no back puff recurrence. I'm not sure exactly what combination of coals, draft, and firebox loading brought this on, as it was the first time I've seen it, but easily remedied, and way less sensitive than my old stove.

This morning at 5:30, the stove top temp was still 200 F, scratched around the ashes to find a nice bed of hot coals, reloaded with some smaller pieces plus a large piece, and in a few minutes it was blazing away again. So that was an 11 hr burn without even trying--I'm super happy!

Even burning low to the point that I had a back puff, the glass has stayed perfectly clean. Yesterday before firing it up I showed my sons the easy catalyst access, and noticed that the passageways at the top of the stove in front of the catalyst were perfectly clean, so looks like everything in the stove is getting burned off.

This morning after the fire was going well, and I closed the bypass to catalyst mode, went outside to look at the smokestack, and no visible smoke. The old stove would have had major visible smoke after going to cat mode until the cat and everything else had totally heated up. The cleanliness of the burn on this stove is remarkable in my experience!

 

[Rearscreen]

Yesterday before firing it up I showed my sons the easy catalyst access,

Translation: I'm gradually teaching them how to clean it so I don't have to.

 

[John Kuhn]

Translation: I'm gradually teaching them how to clean it so I don't have to.

Haha, good one!

 

[weatherguy]

They do burn really clean, when I load up it doesn't take long for secondaries to start up, little trick, put some small/med pieces on top of every load and they kick on sooner.

 

[John Kuhn]

They do burn really clean, when I load up it doesn't take long for secondaries to start up, little trick, put some small/med pieces on top of every load and they kick on sooner.

Thanks for sharing that!

 

[John Kuhn]

I'm finding this stove so amazing, had to share this. Overnight low was 17 F, so wanted to burn a bit yesterday evening so the house wouldn't be cold in the morning. Last pieces of wood put in at 6 p.m., maybe half full. This morning just small red coals remaining, so I raked a lot of the ash through the grate to expose the coals, put in some kindling, plus small and medium pieces, opened the ash drawer door for 20 seconds which produced immediate flame, shut the ash drawer, and nice fire going right away with almost no effort. I let that burn down for 2 hrs, then put on three medium pieces, which will be it for the day since it's sunny out. Engaged the cat, went outside to look at my chimney, and zero visible smoke, so remarkable how clean this stove burns, and how easy it is to use.

 

[begreen]

Although it is convenient, I don't think reviving the fire or igniting kindling using the ash pan door would be approved by Woodstock. Any damage done would likely void the warranty. You want to avoid rapid temperature changes with this stove.

From the manual -

Never build a roaring fire in a cold stove. It takes at least 30 minutes to heat the soapstone panels of the Progress. Attempts to reach high temperatures very quickly could result in damage to the cast iron or soapstone parts.

NEVER BURN THE STOVE WITH THE ASH DOOR OPEN!

 

[John Kuhn]

From the manual -
NEVER BURN THE STOVE WITH THE ASH DOOR OPEN!

Right, because if you leave it open you'll destroy the stove. Having it open for a <30 seconds to light off the kindling is not an issue. Ironclad rule: If the door is open, you don't walk away for any reason, and there wouldn't be any reason because it literally takes seconds to get it going.

 

[John Kuhn]

Never build a roaring fire in a cold stove. It takes at least 30 minutes to heat the soapstone panels of the Progress. Attempts to reach high temperatures very quickly could result in damage to the cast iron or soapstone parts.

I totally get that. It's not a roaring fire. It is only a substitution for newspaper, or sitting there smoldering for 15 minutes. The stove still takes 1/2 hr to get up to temp with a normal burn rate.

 

[begreen]

Rapid heating of the grate with forge like temps can crack that area due to the rapid expansion of the metal as compared to the surrounding area. Be careful. 10 seconds may be ok, but 2 minutes is not. If in doubt, give Woodstock a call.

 

[John Kuhn]

Rapid heating of the grate with forge like temps can crack that area due to the rapid expansion of the metal as compared to the surrounding area. Be careful. 10 seconds may be ok, but 2 minutes is not. If in doubt, give Woodstock a call.

Totally agree, and actually think 1 minute would be more than needed, and probably excessive. Very much a common sense thing: As soon as you get ignition you shut the door, you don't wait there watching it become a blowtorch.

 

[edyit]

Very much a common sense thing

unfortunately it's not nearly as common as it should be...