XXV vs GC60

[Martlet]

I've had both dealers out to my place, and neither had bad things to say about the other. The Harman dealer said the GC60 may deal with low quality pellets better do to the agitator rod, but he also said this may be a bad year to buy a stove and after surveying my house suggested what I believe to be a poor location to put it.

My wife prefers the look of the GC60 better and the Regency dealer said it's quieter than the XXV, but I've heard good things about the XXV quality.

Pros and cons from anyone who has used either would be appreciated. A search on this site seems to bring up people posting things wrong, but I'm wondering if others own them but just have nothing bad to post about.

 

[jim2074]

I am going on my second year of an XXV. Great stove and the wife likes the looks of it. What is most important is your dealer. I have a great dealer who responds asap when there is a problem. We really like the XXV. Only problem I have had is a noisy blower and the dealer replaced right away.

 

[smwilliamson]

What I really like about all Harman stoves, there are separate controls for blower speed and heat range. You can turn the heat up and the blower down. The Regency, as you turn up the heat, the room blower increases and its a really powerful blower, so you hear it. The XXV is a better build. Glass stays cleaner on the Regency. If you are going to have vertical rise in the house for the vent, the XXV is true center up the back, the Regency is left of center and never really looks true center no matter what you do. Additionally, the hopper sets way back so the vertical pipe upward is rather orphaned. The XXV comes standard with mirror glass which I'm not a fan of. XXV is way easier to clean in the front but harder in the back and visa versa for the Regency. The Regency isn't a true black, it's kinda a grayish black and does not come in an enamel finish.confused yet?

 

[smwilliamson]

I've had both dealers out to my place, and neither had bad things to say about the other. The Harman dealer said the GC60 may deal with low quality pellets better do to the agitator rod, but he also said this may be a bad year to buy a stove and after surveying my house suggested what I believe to be a poor location to put it.

My wife prefers the look of the GC60 better and the Regency dealer said it's quieter than the XXV, but I've heard good things about the XXV quality.

Pros and cons from anyone who has used either would be appreciated. A search on this site seems to bring up people posting things wrong, but I'm wondering if others own them but just have nothing bad to post about.

The regency is not quieter at all heat levels.

 

[stovelark]

Martlet- welcome. Both stoves are good heaters, the regency is built by Sherwood (Enviro). The original blower for those stoves was very quiet, but didn't move enough air and the blower had to be updated. Its still fairly quiet, but is not whisper quiet. Both of these stoves are quality units, do you have a preference?? Both should heat nicely upwards to 1500-2000 sqft for you.

 

[Don2222]

Hello
The reason the GC-60 did not move enough air is do to the lower trip point of the hi limit snap disc. It keeps popping! A safety feature so the stove shuts down in case the room blower dies. Most stoves have a 250 deg trip point but Enviro firmly sets theirs in all the stoves to 200 deg so the heat coming out will not be as hot as the Harman. Enviro has a few engineering designs that I disagree with but they are good stoves. Harman does not use snap discs and the XXV does not have a high wattage igniter and air pump to start burning corn like the GC-60. If you will be burning multi-fuels and also need the agitator and agitator motor, the extra apparatus to maintain maybe worth it. If you only burn pellets the Harman XXV burns them very well. Also the Special design of the Harman sealed auger bearing is far superior to the generic bronze bearing that Enviro uses. I have never seen a Harman auger bearing go bad but have replaced quite a few Enviro bearings. The GC-60 has many more parts and Enviro parts seem to be more costly. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Martlet]

Great information. I appreciate it.

 

[Martlet]

What I really like about all Harman stoves, there are separate controls for blower speed and heat range. You can turn the heat up and the blower down. The Regency, as you turn up the heat, the room blower increases and its a really powerful blower, so you hear it. The XXV is a better build. Glass stays cleaner on the Regency. If you are going to have vertical rise in the house for the vent, the XXV is true center up the back, the Regency is left of center and never really looks true center no matter what you do. Additionally, the hopper sets way back so the vertical pipe upward is rather orphaned. The XXV comes standard with mirror glass which I'm not a fan of. XXV is way easier to clean in the front but harder in the back and visa versa for the Regency. The Regency isn't a true black, it's kinda a grayish black and does not come in an enamel finish.confused yet?

Very confused.

 

[smwilliamson]

Hello
The reason the GC-60 did not move enough air is do to the lower trip point of the hi limit snap disc. It keeps popping! A safety feature so the stove shuts down in case the room blower dies. Most stoves have a 250 deg trip point but Enviro firmly sets theirs in all the stoves to 200 deg so the heat coming out will not be as hot as the Harman. Enviro has a few engineering designs that I disagree with but they are good stoves. Harman does not use snap discs and the XXV does not have a high wattage igniter and air pump to start burning corn like the GC-60. If you will be burning multi-fuels and also need the agitator and agitator motor, the extra apparatus to maintain maybe worth it. If you only burn pellets the Harman XXV burns them very well. Also the Special design of the Harman sealed auger bearing is far superior to the generic bronze bearing that Enviro uses. I have never seen a Harman auger bearing go bad but have replaced quite a few Enviro bearings. The GC-60 has many more parts and Enviro parts seem to be more costly. Just my 2 cents.

The heat coming out is not as hot as a Harman because the lim t switch is a lower temp threshold? Poppycock. It depends on where the switch is located. The limit switches were popping because the cast aluminum frame of the old blower was getting so hot that the frame would sag and cause the blower to spin slower because it would fall out of alignment.

 

[Don2222]

The heat coming out is not as hot as a Harman because the lim t switch is a lower temp threshold? Poppycock. It depends on where the switch is located. The limit switches were popping because the cast aluminum frame of the old blower was getting so hot that the frame would sag and cause the blower to spin slower because it would fall out of alignment.

Either way it would put out more heat like a Harman if was made with heavy guage steel like a Harman. The Limit switch is a bi-metal switch that opens when the temperature is above 200 degs not because something is out of alignment. If it had a 250 deg set point and was strong, then it would not be a problem. An upgraded blower that puts out more CFM is not the best fix! IMHO One of my customers had an older Enviro Empress and then purchased a new one with the upgraded blower and complained it was not putting out the same heat the old Enviro did! Do you still sell Enviros?

 

[stovelark]

Hey Don- worked on, cleaned and sold a lot of Empresses the past 8 or 9 years- never heard that about an Empress. The Windsor had a couple of issues, the door design and some flaky Motherboards, but I believe even it used the same style blower as the current model?? The M55 original blower just wasn't moving enough air that led to over temps, but the present blower seems ok.

 

[Don2222]

Hey Don- worked on, cleaned and sold a lot of Empresses the past 8 or 9 years- never heard that about an Empress. The Windsor had a couple of issues, the door design and some flaky Motherboards, but I believe even it used the same style blower as the current model?? The M55 original blower just wasn't moving enough air that led to over temps, but the present blower seems ok.

Yes but over temp for Enviros is over 200 Degs and most other stoves it is 250 Degs. That is quite a difference. If the 200 deg switch was changed to 250 deg would that be a better solution?
Remember the purpose of the snap switch is to shut the stove down if the convection blower fails. Putting a higher CFM convection blower in the stove, puts more air thru the stove and lowers the heat output. My female customer was the only customer that had both the older Empress and the new one and she could feel the difference. She was disappointed with the heat output of the new one even though the hi limit never popped. Women can feel heat more than I can so I believe her and it makes sense too.
Also a Harman is built to run without the convection blower running! Very few stoves are made that way! ! !

 

[Martlet]

The Harman dealer just emailed me and said he'd drop the price more and throw in a ton of pellets. That puts the two stoves at about the same price. The Harman may even be a little cheaper since I have to pull my own permit, but I'm getting the free pellets.

 

[Don2222]

The Harman dealer just emailed me and said he'd drop the price more and throw in a ton of pellets. That puts the two stoves at about the same price. The Harman may even be a little cheaper since I have to pull my own permit, but I'm getting the free pellets.

Cool!

 

[smwilliamson]

Don, we aren't even talking about the empress we are talking about the M55 and regency gc60 builds. I've worked on hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these machines. They actually still make the old syle blower for the M55 steel stove which actually never had much of an over heat problem. That blower moved enough air but was just made with an inferior cast alloy to support the use and placement. bi metal switch or not had no bearing on the over heat problem. That was a symptom of the underlying problem...the blower went out of alignment and started spinning slower. To get back to the OP, the XXV also had blower issues last year and I have replaced many under warranty. They were buzzing at lower speeds. The old one was a Fasco and is now replaced with the Accentra FS blower which is an EMB though all new units still come with the Fasco blower. Some buzz some don't.

 

[smwilliamson]

Either way it would put out more heat like a Harman if was made with heavy guage steel like a Harman. The Limit switch is a bi-metal switch that opens when the temperature is above 200 degs not because something is out of alignment. If it had a 250 deg set point and was strong, then it would not be a problem. An upgraded blower that puts out more CFM is not the best fix! IMHO One of my customers had an older Enviro Empress and then purchased a new one with the upgraded blower and complained it was not putting out the same heat the old Enviro did! Do you still sell Enviros?

The blower for the Empress and the Windsor has always been the same on both the insert and the FS. There is no "upgrade" for the blower. Control boards changed but Kndont think the voltage to the blower has. Don't listen to your customer when they tell you stuff like that. Don't be rude, yeah listen but be smart enough to understand that it's not the stoves' fault.

 

[smwilliamson]

Yes but over temp for Enviros is over 200 Degs and most other stoves it is 250 Degs. That is quite a difference. If the 200 deg switch was changed to 250 deg would that be a better solution?
Remember the purpose of the snap switch is to shut the stove down if the convection blower fails. Putting a higher CFM convection blower in the stove, puts more air thru the stove and lowers the heat output. My female customer was the only customer that had both the older Empress and the new one and she could feel the difference. She was disappointed with the heat output of the new one even though the hi limit never popped. Women can feel heat more than I can so I believe her and it makes sense too.
Also a Harman is built to run without the convection blower running! Very few stoves are made that way! ! !

Many stoves are built to run without the convection blower, including the Enviro mini, meridian, EF series, and the Evolution, all still used 200 degree snap discs and did not overheat. Your logic is not supported. Harman can only run without the blower when used in "summer romance" mode and most customers don't know how to do that anyway. Manual mode, stove temp, temp dial below 5.

 

[Martlet]

Assuming the two stoves are roughly equal in price, which would you get and why? You're obviously far more knowledgable than I.

 

[Don2222]

Thanks Scott for the detailed information and not being rude yourself! You are right about the blowers but I still do not like the lower 200 deg set point on the snap disk. Just my opinion.

 

[stovelark]

Hi Don, thanks for info. I think with their placements on the stoves though, the 200 deg over temp works fine. As we know, a clean, maintained stove usually does its job. I thought the convex blowers hadn't changed for the Empress (thanks Scott).

Martlet- Both will serve you well, but if the Harman is the better deal, I'd lean that way. There is no perfect stove, some will prefer some over others, I like Enviros cause I'm familiar with them. Same with Quadrafires, I'm familiar with them. I would say percentage-wise, Harman makes a superlative stove, most people are very happy with them. Take care.

 

[Martlet]

Thanks. Upon reviewing, they're actually about equal when you add in the pellets.

 

[crizpynutz]

I know nothing like Don or Scott here, but I did get a GC60 last year and I loved it. My house is a 2,200 sq ft colonial. The family room between the garage and kitchen had a little trouble maintaining a decent temp on the colder days and although the temp at the top of the stairs was only about 1-2 degrees lower than the middle of the first floor, I did notice some trouble cycling heat into the far corners of the bedrooms.

I'm going to try using a couple small circulator fans to see if I can move a little more heat around, especially upstairs where the heat seems to reach, but can't quite get into the rooms as well as I'd like.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001D1J9H0...UTF8&colid=3RSYE3NX12TG&coliid=I135KUFOJREOYB

Bottom line, I had a few moments after purchase where I wished I'd chosen Harman, mostly because everyone speaks so highly of them, but so far, my GC60 has made me very happy. A few people even said, "why did you buy that? you should've bought a Harman" which made me feel like I made a mistake. I don't feel that way anymore, we love our stove. The blower does get louder as you turn up the heat (which i expected), but we don't mind, it's not awful or anything - maybe don't put it in the TV room if you get one though. My wife loved the heat from it and I really felt it pushed that 2,000 sq ft mark pretty easily. I burned mostly hammers last year as I was late to the game getting it installed and my local Agway sold them. This year as you can see in my sig I'm trying a few different pellets. Cleaning has been easy including the glass window - I used the stove top cleaner and it came off very easily:

http://www.amazon.com/COOK-CLEAN-20-Clean-Cream/dp/B00009W39B/ref=sr_1_5?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1436277801&sr=1-5&keywords=glass stove top cleaner

Just two lincolns from a newer, less informed owner.

 

[quietcorner dad]

Martlet,

You can learn about my experience with the M55 at
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...chimney-m-55-other-stuff.143588/#post-1938099

you may have to scroll up to my original post.

(I think you already know that the M55 is not that different from Regency GC60 except superficial looks, i.e., its the MC55 but made for Regency with some minor changes…others more expert than I have explained the difference somewhere on this board.)

I suspect the GC60 would have a better looking flame than the XXV, but the XXV is a great looking stove also IMHO.
After-installation support can be important, so if you can get any sense or evidence re: who would do a better job honoring a warrantee or helping you troubleshoot by phone, you could try to feel that out or ask for references. I think it is already a good sign that your two installers were not trying to bad mouth each other's product...

best wishes!

tom

 

[Don2222]

Hello
What I like about the GC-60 is that you can add an Internet TStat
See my Wi-Fi install pics on a Hampton GC-60. The Lowes Iris Internet TStat also works well too
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/enviro-ecobee-eb-stat-02-install-pics.125728/

 

[stovelark]

crizpy, Tom Just like to add- have cleaned and installed many different stoves, there are a lot of good stoves out there. I just happen to prefer Enviro and Quadrafire because I know them well. Of course the Harmans are great stoves too. I think the important thing to know and remember is both are high quality units. (Enviro makes Regency's pellet stoves for them) Good luck with yours.