Yeah, a vegan diet is much better for the planet...

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Your gut symbiont must be hurting pretty bad without any digestible food,
Quite the opposite, The meat I eat is being nearly fully digested, there is very little residue left to pass. Fiber is not digestible. Have you ever wondered why your gut tries to get rid of it as fast as it can? It doesn't belong there and it is an irritant. That's why so many people have IBS, and when they try the carnivore way of eating, their IBS is cured. Humans only have a small remnant of a cecum, your appendix. The cecum stores fiber until bacteria break it down into fatty acids. We evolved to eat meat and fat, we no longer needed our cecum, so it shrank into the tiny appendix, which can no longer ferment fiber. The primary reason I switched to carnivore is to avoid cancer. I have the BRACA1 gene mutation. Cancer is a metabolic and mitochondria disease. Plant defense chemicals and inflammation from carbs/insulin damage our cellular mitochondria, which leads to damage and mutation. Cancer cells can only get energy from fermenting glycogen. If I am in ketosis, there is only a small amount of glycogen available in my blood, not enough to feed the cancer cells, they will starve and shrink. Many stage 4 cancer patients have shrunk their tumors to undetectable using the carnivore way of eating. Thomas Seyfried's book "Cancer as a Metabolic Disease" reevaluates the origins of cancer based on the latest research findings and several decades of studies exploring the defects in tumor cell energy metabolism.2 He presents an alternative origin of cancer based on the theories of Otto Warburg, wherein cancer is viewed as a disease of cellular metabolic dysfunction due to damaged mitochondria. Seyfried elaborates on a non-toxic mode of treatment, the ketogenic diet, which capitalizes on the inability of the damaged cancer cell mitochondria to metabolize ketones, thus starving them while maintaining healthy cells.1 The book addresses controversies related to the origins of cancer and provides solutions to cancer management and prevention.0 As for methane, This planet has been inhabited with ruminant animals for millions of years. Bison, deer, elk, goats, sheep, many of the heard animals in Africa, all making methane the whole time. Why is that in the last few years it has become a problem? Maybe we should look at other parts of our lifestyle such as jetting across the country any time we please to see a friend or go on a weekend getaway. driving 10's of thousands of miles a year, burning coal and gas to generate electricity when nuclear plants create no co2. My last thoughts are this, if you are experiencing any autoimmune disease, IBS, arthritis, type 1 or 2 diabetes, give carnivore a 30 day trial, what could it hurt? All type 2 diabetics are cured when they eliminate carbs. Type 1 can reduce their insulin dose. You may have a couple weeks of adapting with symptoms such as diarrhea, or keto flu, but once you are adapted, you will feel the positive impacts on your physical and mental health. This is my last response to this trolling thread. It is the first time I have expressed my views online on my way of eating, and frankly, it has consumed too much of my time and interfered with my sleep last night.
 
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Fiber is not digestible by our organs, but that is not the case for a healthy population of lactobacillus in your lower GIT. IBS is a symptom of an imbalanced git, not caused by plants directly.

Methane from wild animals is a drop in the bucket compared to how many cows there are on the planet now compared to wild ruminants at any time in the past.

Humans are not obligate carnivores, like a wolf, and even those still eat a very significant amount of plant foods. Even felines eat some plant foods, meat is not 100% of their diet.

I'm not advocating a vegan or vegetarian diet, I eat meat. I'm agreeing with some others that the high meat western diet, or a pure carnivorous diet, is both bad for public health and the environment. However, it's mostly an issue with beef. Small ruminants and poultry do not have anywhere near the methane emissions of beef cattle.

I also agree that there is loads of waste and poor lifestyle choices affecting climate change, but individual consumers do not contribute a huge amount of emissions compared to industry and the top 1% of the wealth holders.
 
Stress has a lot to do with IBS. Most of our immune system activity is in the gut. Stress can do a lot to reduce immunity.

"Certain problems are more common in people with IBS. Experts think these problems may play a role in causing IBS. These problems include:
  • stressful or difficult early life events, such as physical or sexual abuse
  • certain mental disorders, such as depression NIH external link, anxiety NIH external link, and somatic symptom disorder NIH external link
  • bacterial infections in your digestive tract
  • small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, an increase in the number or a change in the type of bacteria in your small intestine
  • food intolerances or sensitivities, in which certain foods cause digestive symptoms
Research suggests that genes may make some people more likely to develop IBS."

 
"How do doctors treat IBS?
Doctors may treat irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) by recommending changes in what you eat and other lifestyle changes, medicines, probiotics, and mental health therapies. You may have to try a few treatments to see what works best for you. Your doctor can help you find the right treatment plan.

Changes to what you eat and other lifestyle changes​

Changes in what you eat may help treat your symptoms. Your doctor may recommend trying one of the following changes:
  • eat more fiber
  • avoid gluten
  • follow a special eating plan called the low FODMAP diet
Read more about eating, diet, and nutrition for IBS.

Research suggests that other lifestyle changes may help IBS symptoms, including
  • increasing your physical activity
  • reducing stressful life situations as much as possible
  • getting enough sleep"

FWIW, fatty meats are a known IBS trigger.
 
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As much as worrying over the ethics of eating meat is a big "don't care" for me, I did prefer reading about that over IBS. !!!

As to the ethics, we as a society really need to do something about food waste, before I'll feel any inclination to worry about my own personal at-home meat consumption. Seems people are sweating the details, while missing the big picture, in this regard.
 
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As much as worrying over the ethics of eating meat is a big "don't care" for me, I did prefer reading about that over IBS. !!!

As to the ethics, we as a society really need to do something about food waste, before I'll feel any inclination to worry about my own personal at-home meat consumption. Seems people are sweating the details, while missing the big picture, in this regard.
I try to bring up the 30% of food production that goes to waste. I disagree about trying to be more ethical.
 
I'll stay with my carnivore diet. I can't imagine eating vegetables or grain ever again. The gas, bloating IBS it caused me is gone, Drinking fruit and vegetable smoothies and eating raw carrots, whole wheat bread, gave me immense foul smelling gas and unpredictable bm's. Eating just meat has eliminated that. My body is telling me it loves this way of eating by absorbing over half of the meat I eat. poop doesn't even smell, seriously, and almost no gas. Plenty of non vegan biased studies out there showing those global warming effects from meat production are way off, especially regenerative farms that actually sequester more co2 than they generate. Just remember that whether or not an animal eats a plant, that plant will decompose and create co2. How much global warming have the Canada wildfires created?

I"m really glad you are getting a positive benefit from your diet. IBS is rough, and can be triggered by all kinds of foods, same with autoimmune diseases.

I wouldn't generalize that all IBS is caused by plant foods, nor that a carnivore diet would cure everyone. In reality, the normal diet contains a vast array of ingredients, and it can be really difficult to figure out what is causing some symptom. The easiest way is an elimination diet, where you eliminate everything but a pretty short list of foods... and more often than not, you feel better. Zillions of examples out there for folks feeling better after going more meat OR more plant based diets. A 100 years ago there was a clinic that could cure most folks diabetes by just forcing them to live on white rice for several months!

We've discussed WOP and regenerative farming quite a bit. WOP is a heavily funded project by General Mills, and their PR materials made a lot of out there claims about CO2 sequestration. The project leaders eventually submitted a scientific paper for peer review, and got it published, with MUCH reduced claims about CO2 sequestration, and they walked back their PR claims around the same time. BUt somehow the idea of livestock being a huge carbon sink has lived on in social media.

So, the science establishment says WOP is not able to sustainably sink carbon. Nor is its productivity and cost at a level where it could be scaled in a significant way.

The scientific establishment and the FDA (and its counterparts around the world) say that eating more (or entirely) plant based is healthy.

Are they all 'vegan biased'? Is this some sort of conspiracy? Who is paying for that? Big Veg? The broccoli farmers of america?

Seems more likely that the enormous, hugely wealthy food companies (like General Mills) that are selling mountains of junk food (and processed meat products) to us that we all agree is making us sicker... and who have hired an army of tobacco lawyers, scientific shills and journalists... they might be trying to muddy the waters, just as the tobacco companies and coal companies and oil companies did, using the same tactics.

That said, its a free country, and you can eat carnivore if you want. There are plenty of scientific studies out there showing that such a diet has an increased risk of mortality from multiple causes, but you could have different genetics somehow. If your doctor thinks you are fine, rock on.
 
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Quite the opposite, The meat I eat is being nearly fully digested, there is very little residue left to pass. Fiber is not digestible. Have you ever wondered why your gut tries to get rid of it as fast as it can? It doesn't belong there and it is an irritant. That's why so many people have IBS, and when they try the carnivore way of eating, their IBS is cured. Humans only have a small remnant of a cecum, your appendix. The cecum stores fiber until bacteria break it down into fatty acids. We evolved to eat meat and fat, we no longer needed our cecum, so it shrank into the tiny appendix, which can no longer ferment fiber.

The human digestive tract is anatomically very similar to that of the other great apes, that are primarily herbivorous. Chimps eat a small amount of animal protein, when they can get it. The major difference is humans have adaptations for better digesting starches.

Hunter gatherers also eat very small amounts of animal protein, less than folks eating the typical american diet. In general, they eat a lot of carbs, in particular, starches. They typically eat up to 100 grams of fiber per day.

Analysis of fossilized human poop from around the world suggests that ancient humans ALSO ate a lot of fiber, up to 100 g per day. Researchers found animal bones around campsites, and obv concluded that the humans ate animals, but whether the bones were collected in a month, or a decade is difficult to tell... and all that veg and tubers they ate didn't leave any bones!

The primary reason I switched to carnivore is to avoid cancer. I have the BRACA1 gene mutation. Cancer is a metabolic and mitochondria disease. Plant defense chemicals and inflammation from carbs/insulin damage our cellular mitochondria, which leads to damage and mutation. Cancer cells can only get energy from fermenting glycogen. If I am in ketosis, there is only a small amount of glycogen available in my blood, not enough to feed the cancer cells, they will starve and shrink. Many stage 4 cancer patients have shrunk their tumors to undetectable using the carnivore way of eating. Thomas Seyfried's book "Cancer as a Metabolic Disease" reevaluates the origins of cancer based on the latest research findings and several decades of studies exploring the defects in tumor cell energy metabolism.2 He presents an alternative origin of cancer based on the theories of Otto Warburg, wherein cancer is viewed as a disease of cellular metabolic dysfunction due to damaged mitochondria. Seyfried elaborates on a non-toxic mode of treatment, the ketogenic diet, which capitalizes on the inability of the damaged cancer cell mitochondria to metabolize ketones, thus starving them while maintaining healthy cells.1 The book addresses controversies related to the origins of cancer and provides solutions to cancer management and prevention.0

Cancer is many different diseases, the rate of cancers now is a bit lower than the in 20th century, but still higher than pre-industrial. I have not seen any peer reviewed studies that show cancer regression due to carnivore diets. I have heard similar anecdotal stories about plant based diets and fasting causing cancer regression, but I don't care for anecdotes. Eating meat (esp processed meat) and low fiber diets are associated with colon cancer. Dairy consumption (esp in adolescence) is associated with prostate cancer. Both major killers.

Mitochondria are complicated and there are lots of current papers about them, and keeping them healthy. I have never seen anything about carnivore diet and mitchondria.

As for methane, This planet has been inhabited with ruminant animals for millions of years. Bison, deer, elk, goats, sheep, many of the heard animals in Africa, all making methane the whole time. Why is that in the last few years it has become a problem? Maybe we should look at other parts of our lifestyle such as jetting across the country any time we please to see a friend or go on a weekend getaway. driving 10's of thousands of miles a year, burning coal and gas to generate electricity when nuclear plants create no co2.

The number of ruminant animals on the planet now is a multiple of the number that existed before humans. The vision of those huge buffalo herds centuries ago? We have far more meat on the hoof now in feedlots than back then. The amount of methane in the atmosphere is much higher now than 100 years ago. There are many sources, including leaks from nat gas production, and rice cultivation, not just animal ag.

My last thoughts are this, if you are experiencing any autoimmune disease, IBS, arthritis, type 1 or 2 diabetes, give carnivore a 30 day trial, what could it hurt? All type 2 diabetics are cured when they eliminate carbs. Type 1 can reduce their insulin dose. You may have a couple weeks of adapting with symptoms such as diarrhea, or keto flu, but once you are adapted, you will feel the positive impacts on your physical and mental health. This is my last response to this trolling thread. It is the first time I have expressed my views online on my way of eating, and frankly, it has consumed too much of my time and interfered with my sleep last night.

Elimination diets help lots of people with lots of diseases. The trick is finding an elimination diet (or a weight loss diet) that is sustainable for YOU, that is, you can eat it forever. The carnivore or keto or vegan folks will all claim that their diet is more sustainable than the others. But you can argue that any healthy diet you find that you can live on be happy is the right one for you. I think it is important to talk to your doctor, and have blood work done, but if your doctor is happy, then go for it.

Sorry you think I'm trolling you.
 
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Seems more likely that the enormous, hugely wealthy food companies (like General Mills) that are selling mountains of junk food (and processed meat products) to us that we all agree is making us sicker... and who have hired an army of tobacco lawyers, scientific shills and journalists... they might be trying to muddy the waters, just as the tobacco companies and coal companies and oil companies did, using the same tactics.
No. It seems more likely that "hugely wealthy" government agencies who employee "scientific shills" and influence "journalists" might be trying to "muddy the waters"
 
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No. It seems more likely that "hugely wealthy" government agencies who employee "scientific shills" and influence "journalists" might be trying to "muddy the waters"
OK, what is their motivation? The govt subsidizes meat and dairy production through the USDA. The govt also pays for a lot of our healthcare. Do they want us overweight and sick? I"m not seeing it.

More to the point, the dietary recommendations from the govt haven't really changed over the last 50 years... so, I guess this is a very long term conspiracy to push people to eat more veggies? By both parties?
 
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Funny how all this craziness really got going since 2020. And it’s really crazy.
It's been going this whole time. In 2020 a lot of people suddenly had the time to pay attention to things happening around them.
 
No. It seems more likely that "hugely wealthy" government agencies who employee "scientific shills" and influence "journalists" might be trying to "muddy the waters"
Show me a government employee that is compensated in a similar fashion to a food industry executive, without taking lobbyist money. There are no "hugely wealthy" government agencies, aside from the DoD.
 
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Vege here but actually now a pescatarian as I do eat salmon now. Have been eating Vege for 30+ yrs and my weight now is the same as i was in my twenties. Last checkup was excellent based on the doc and as I get closer to 60, I think the diet works well for me. Bottom line is I won’t preach on what people should or should not eat but agriculture and especially cattle farming has been proven to be bad for the planet, at least the way it’s done today.
 
OK, what is their motivation? The govt subsidizes meat and dairy production through the USDA. The govt also pays for a lot of our healthcare. Do they want us overweight and sick? I"m not seeing it.

More to the point, the dietary recommendations from the govt haven't really changed over the last 50 years... so, I guess this is a very long term conspiracy to push people to eat more veggies? By both parties?
Woodgeek - you keep posting diatribes and links to articles that support your diatribes. I'll keep reminding others that there's more to critical thinking than internet articles.

The interpretation of "facts" changes over time but some treat these interpretations as gospel. What we think is a fact today might be proven wrong tomorrow. History consistently proves that.
 
Show me a government employee that is compensated in a similar fashion to a good industry executive, without taking lobbyist money. There are no "hugely wealthy" government agencies, aside from the DoD.
Lol. :)

No. I won't compare the paycheck of a government employee to the CEO of company x.
 
Lol. :)

No. I won't compare the paycheck of a government employee to the CEO of company x.
Indeed, because your arguments are all kind of just based on anecdotes and industry lobbying. So most of the "internet articles" being posted are actually peer reviewed scholarly journal articles that are printed on real paper in real journals. Many of which are archived by the National Institute of Health, among other independent collections.
 
Indeed, because your arguments are all kind of just based on anecdotes and industry lobbying. So most of the "internet articles" being posted are actually peer reviewed scholarly journal articles that are printed on real paper in real journals. Many of which are archived by the National Institute of Health, among other independent collections.
And many of the interpretations of the facts contained in those articles will change over time.
 
And many of the interpretations of the facts contained in those articles will change over time.
You mean like the oil company data from the 60's that accurately predicted current global warming trends? Woodgeek brings up the fact that all of the big industries use the same scientists and publicists, which can be traced back to Herbert Schmertz at Mobil oil. The primary goal of these industries is to create doubt in consumers. They don't have to do anything else, like disprove anything or provide credible evidence. It's funny how folks demand more evidence than has already been provided for theories that go against the meat, fossil fuel, tobacco, etc. industries, but ask for almost nothing in favor of said industries.
 
You mean like the oil company data from the 60's that accurately predicted current global warming trends? Woodgeek brings up the fact that all of the big industries use the same scientists and publicists, which can be traced back to Herbert Schmertz at Mobile oil. The primary goal of these industries is to create doubt in consumers. They don't have to do anything else, like disprove anything or provide credible evidence. It's funny how folks demand more evidence than has already been provided for theories that go against the meat, fossil fuel, tobacco, etc. industries, but ask for almost nothing in favor of said industries.
As long as your bias against private corps is balanced by bias against government, then we can all agree.

The issue we butt our heads against is that it isn't on this forum.

I'm not a fan of EITHER side running unchecked.
 
As long as your bias against private corps is balanced by bias against government, then we can all agree.

The issue we butt our heads against is that it isn't on this forum.

I'm not a fan of EITHER side running unchecked.

The thing I'm missing here is the scientific method. Science is not perfect (bc scientists aren't perfect), and peer review makes mistakes. But that said, science is self-correcting, and the best strategy for arriving at truth for improving the human condition that we have. Better than journalism. Better than social media.

The articles I post are peer reviewed, large studies in good journals. These are flagship science publications. They reinforce and agree with and expand upon a raft of earlier peer reviewed studies.

If you don't think science is any different than an internet article, then I guess we're done.

While science does evolve, the science around nutrition re what is a healthy diet has not changed very much in the last 50 years. Mostly plants and whole foods. Meat in moderation (which is a few (3-4 oz) servings a week, not per day). Also called the mediterranean diet. Its within spitting distance of a whole foods vegan diet.

Keto and low carb diets have been around for 100 years, and get 'rediscovered' in popular culture every couple decades, when someone writes a book. They have consistently been shown in scientific studies to be great quick weight loss diets over the course of a year or two (with all the health benefits that weight loss has), but have been found to be unhealthy compared to other diets that achieve the same wight loss over time. The 'rediscovery' occurs bc their gurus (like Atkins) have a bad habit of dying young.
 
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If you don't think science is any different than an internet article, then I guess we're done.
Then I guess we're done.

Because science once believed the sun orbited the Earth.

And please, help us save the planet by not using so much electricity on your replies.

Sheesh . . .
 
Then I guess we're done.

Because science once believed the sun orbited the Earth.

And please, help us save the planet by not using so much electricity on your replies.

Sheesh . . .
That was not science, that was western religious doctrine. The Greek philosopher Aristarchus discussed the earth rotating around the sun in 230 BC. Then Aristotle messed things up.
 
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That was not science, that was western religious doctrine. The Greek philosopher Aristarchus discussed the earth rotating around the sun in 230 BC. Then Aristotle messed things up.

:)

I'm pretty sure some folks on this board understand my point.
 
:)

I'm pretty sure some folks on this board understand my point.

I don't. Yeah, there are 'paradigm shifts' and revolutions in science. We learn about them in school. As I said that is how science is 'self-correcting'.

But it seems you are implying
(1) that the fact that paradigm shifts occur means we shouldn't put any stock in the science we have, bc it could all get thrown out tomorrow. OR
(2) that every rando that writes a book about a new diet and says 'this is a new paradigm' should be believed.

In reality, paradigms gets shifted VERY rarely. And they are usually actual incremental improvements... like Newtons' theory (gravity) of planetary orbits getting replaced with Einstein's theory (geodesics on curved space time), and the new model makes extremely similar predictions to the old one.

Kinda like the hypothesis cholesterol causes heart attacks... being replaced with a hypothesis that LDL cholesterol causes heart attacks... being replaced with 'the LDL particles tagged with an ApoB protein' cause heart attacks. All different paradigms, but each just adding detail to the previous ones. And each step occurs after dozens of peer reviewed papers over a decade of work, replicated by many labs around the world using the best scientific methods.

Versus some rando writes a book that says 'cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease' and 'its my new paradigm!' and going on Joe Rogan. And folks say 'hey, paradigm shifts happen in science, so this seems plausible'

What is your point exactly?
 
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