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Swedishchef
Minister of Fire
Hmmm..I would be a little concerned. That's a nice shiny glaze and not an nice epoxy black paint.
Personally I swept with a sooteater (bottom up) and didn't even look at my cap. Now I am thinking I should have...
Andrew
Personally I swept with a sooteater (bottom up) and didn't even look at my cap. Now I am thinking I should have...
Andrew
Did you look down the pipe at all? Or was this taken with some crazy camera from a long distance?
Well I have been having a drafting problem with my stove so per the advice on here was to check the pipe and cap. So my dad being the only one with a ladder long enough came up and tried climbing up on the roof. I told him if it was icy it wasn't worth it, but he got up and as close as he dared and took this pic for me. From what I am learning that is the worst creosote to have, so I am nervous to burn again. I wished we could have gotten a look down the pipe but I wouldn't want him getting hurt over it.
He seemed to think it was still perfectly fine to burn, and I appreciate his opinion very much, but he has also had 2 chimney fires when he had a stove when I was a kid.
Oh and I do know the cap is silver like what your kind of seeing on the left of the photo. Not a painted cap.
He seemed to think it was still perfectly fine to burn, and I appreciate his opinion very much, but he has also had 2 chimney fires when he had a stove when I was a kid.
Oh and I do know the cap is silver like what your kind of seeing on the left of the photo. Not a painted cap.
This is the coldest spot in the system by far. What I see here is of no concern and certainly should not cause a draft problem. I doubt there is an issue lower in the stack since this doesn't look bad, but without looking down that cannot be ruled out (however unlikely).
Any chance you switched to a different wood pile? Or got down to wood at the bottom of the stack versus the top? I'm wondering if this is a wood and not a draft issue, as that cap certainly does not look restricted.
Any chance you switched to a different wood pile? Or got down to wood at the bottom of the stack versus the top? I'm wondering if this is a wood and not a draft issue, as that cap certainly does not look restricted.
Well no the wood is not that great at all. My health has taken a bad turn for me this last year. I am stuck in the house so being as we no longer have my income I was trying to save us some money on heating. We got some wood from a cottonwood that has been laying in someones field for a bunch of years. So no the wood is not great at all. Infact, when first firing it up it sizzles so I know its wet. Basically I was trying to help save us some money, the stove has had maybe 20 fires in it up until a month ago when I started burning everyday. If saving some money heating will get us a chimney fire though and burn the house down then its not worth it. So that's why I was curious what you thought if I was okay to still burn. And maybe the draft problem is just the wood, but if you don't mind explaining how is that? shouldn't the smoke still get sucked up the chimney?
I'm sorry to hear of the health problems.
I, and most here have at one point or another been forced to burn wood that is not well seasoned. The effects are (as you know) that they can build up creosote in the chimney which may ignite and cause a chimney fire. The problem comes if the chimney fire is large enough to cause damage.
My point is, good burning practices (well seasoned wood, and hot fires, and a by the book installation) mean that the risk is greatly reduced. However, it is still important to do regular inspections and sweeps of the chimney.
If I were in your case, and I knew the chimney and installation were 100% up to par, I'd be doing frequent inspections and cleanings (once per month) and carry on. Not saying this dissolves the concern with a chimney fire, it is ever present for all of us, but it minimizes the risk.
Perhaps if the system cannot be swept easily from the top down that the system could be swept with a soot eater from the bottom up?
The picture of the cap itself that you show is not of concern to me. However, it's not a full inspection so I (nor anyone) am unable to say for sure what's going on with the rest of the setup.
I feel your pain and appreciate your post in efforts to keep things safe. That's priority number one.
I, and most here have at one point or another been forced to burn wood that is not well seasoned. The effects are (as you know) that they can build up creosote in the chimney which may ignite and cause a chimney fire. The problem comes if the chimney fire is large enough to cause damage.
My point is, good burning practices (well seasoned wood, and hot fires, and a by the book installation) mean that the risk is greatly reduced. However, it is still important to do regular inspections and sweeps of the chimney.
If I were in your case, and I knew the chimney and installation were 100% up to par, I'd be doing frequent inspections and cleanings (once per month) and carry on. Not saying this dissolves the concern with a chimney fire, it is ever present for all of us, but it minimizes the risk.
Perhaps if the system cannot be swept easily from the top down that the system could be swept with a soot eater from the bottom up?
The picture of the cap itself that you show is not of concern to me. However, it's not a full inspection so I (nor anyone) am unable to say for sure what's going on with the rest of the setup.
I feel your pain and appreciate your post in efforts to keep things safe. That's priority number one.
Swedishchef
Minister of Fire
I agree with everything Pen mentioned...
I just want to add: burning wood is complicated yet simple...(coming from a scientific mind..)
In order to burn hot, moisture must leave the wood. Lots of moisture prevents the temperature of the stove from rising as most of the heat IN the stove is being used to "boil" the water out of the wood. The more wet the wood, the longer it takes to get the water out, the cooler the temperature in the burn chamber. Cooler temperature due to saturated wood, the gases going up the chimney can condense and form creosote (not just water exists within the wood).
It's a simple principle of physics/chemistry. See the attached graph. It's simply a state change.
Be safe, take care of your health and inspect as often as you can.
All the best,
Andrew
I just want to add: burning wood is complicated yet simple...(coming from a scientific mind..)
In order to burn hot, moisture must leave the wood. Lots of moisture prevents the temperature of the stove from rising as most of the heat IN the stove is being used to "boil" the water out of the wood. The more wet the wood, the longer it takes to get the water out, the cooler the temperature in the burn chamber. Cooler temperature due to saturated wood, the gases going up the chimney can condense and form creosote (not just water exists within the wood).
It's a simple principle of physics/chemistry. See the attached graph. It's simply a state change.
Be safe, take care of your health and inspect as often as you can.
All the best,
Andrew
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Hey thanks for the help guys. I had seen that sooteater today on youtube, it looked pretty neat. But from what I understood that type of creosote is not removed by brushes, only by chemicals. So lets say I were to get a soot eater run it up there monthly and when the roof gets safer we keep looking down it monthly, is that going to do anything to keep the chimney fire from happening or is that slick looking creosote still likely to catch? Also do the chimney logs do anything to help this type of creosote. I have read a lot saying they are no good for the fuzzy stuff but the slick?
Sprinter
Minister of Fire
it's really hard to say what is in the flue just based on the cap. The sooteater is good at lighter material like soot and stage two creosote (the crinkly crunchy stuff). But if what you are building up is stage 3 creosote which is the hard glaze, it isn't going to be adequate no matter how often you use it. However, you really need to inspect the flue before you can determine the extent of the problem, and then do it often. Don't allow the stage 3 creosote to build up if that's what it is. It's dangerous and also difficult to remove.
The creosote logs can be helpful in softening up the hard creosote so that it can be more easily removed, but it's not a cure for a chronic creosote problem.
You may be able to mitigate the creosote buildup problem by using a manufactured product like North Idaho Energy Logs which should be available there (they are in Nevada anyway) to either burn by themselves or as a supplement to the wet cord wood. So far, it doesn't sound like the cottonwood is really burnable yet, although it may be a lot better next season.
The creosote logs can be helpful in softening up the hard creosote so that it can be more easily removed, but it's not a cure for a chronic creosote problem.
You may be able to mitigate the creosote buildup problem by using a manufactured product like North Idaho Energy Logs which should be available there (they are in Nevada anyway) to either burn by themselves or as a supplement to the wet cord wood. So far, it doesn't sound like the cottonwood is really burnable yet, although it may be a lot better next season.
BCC_Burner
Feeling the Heat
Not sure where in Utah you are located, but there is a company in Springville that makes compressed hardwood bricks similar to North Idaho Energy Logs. Pretty sure they sell for about $170/ton and they will deliver them if you're along the Wasatch Front. They won't deliver to my location at this time of year but I am planning to pick some up soon to supplement my wood supply.
Thanks for the pointer BCC. At $170/ton I suspect that these will not be densely compressed like NIELs or HomeFires. But still, this is a good suggestion and much better than soggy cottonwood.
BCC_Burner
Feeling the Heat
I'll be sure to report back on them once I pick mine up and have a chance to burn some. A ton is a full pallet load, which they claim to be equivalent to a cord of wood. I believe they are small though, close to the size of standard bricks. I'm thinking they would be great mixed in with a load of wetter wood, or as a base layer when I'm really packing the stove full for an extended burn or cold snap.
Alright so being as I am not great with computers I took it upon myself to try a youtube video today. It was quite a day, but here it is. The video is from the bottom with the baffles taken out.
And thanks for the info on those hardwood bricks, I am in summit county so close enough. I also remembered today that I have a wood box full of some poplar that's 4 years old. Just a 3x3x4 box maybe if that. I tried some today and it burns much better. Also when taking the baffles out the draft is strong enough when the stove is cold to suck a paper towel off the cross member and suck it up the chimney so that can't be too bad can it? That's why there is a rag over it in the video. First I put a paper towel on it turned around to get the camera and when I looked back it was gone.
Well se what you think?
And thanks for the info on those hardwood bricks, I am in summit county so close enough. I also remembered today that I have a wood box full of some poplar that's 4 years old. Just a 3x3x4 box maybe if that. I tried some today and it burns much better. Also when taking the baffles out the draft is strong enough when the stove is cold to suck a paper towel off the cross member and suck it up the chimney so that can't be too bad can it? That's why there is a rag over it in the video. First I put a paper towel on it turned around to get the camera and when I looked back it was gone.
Well se what you think?
Not too bad considering, though it looks like there may be a little shininess at the top. I would be sure to do a hot fire each morning for about 30 minutes. Then burn regularly. If you can get some of those compressed bricks to mix with the cottonwood that would be a good plan. And bring as much of the wood into the house as is possible. It will dry out faster indoors. Store it in large plastic totes for a week or two and it will lose some of that moisture.
BCC_Burner
Feeling the Heat
One of our big advantages here is that we have lots of lodgepole and other mountain pine species readily available. I got a batch of lodgepole that was a bit on the wet side (around 25% MC), and I've since re-split most of it so no pieces are bigger than roughly 3"x3". I bring these resplit pieces inside and store them a safe distance from the stove in my stove room. I try to give them about 3 weeks of drying time inside, but with as little as 10 days of drying the MC gets down into the upper teens. Small splits and open, loose grained wood dries very fast in a good environment.
That is perhaps more advice for next year than this winter, but try to buy primarily pine if you are going to buy firewood, and buy it as soon as possible (i.e. later this winter). 6 months of Utah summer weather will season all but the biggest pieces of it to the point where it will catch easily and burn clean, and if you get a spring delivery you could go through and re-split those large pieces then.
That is perhaps more advice for next year than this winter, but try to buy primarily pine if you are going to buy firewood, and buy it as soon as possible (i.e. later this winter). 6 months of Utah summer weather will season all but the biggest pieces of it to the point where it will catch easily and burn clean, and if you get a spring delivery you could go through and re-split those large pieces then.
As BG said, from what can be seen, not too bad.
That said, I see nothing there in the video, or from your earlier pics, that would lead one to believe your draft concerns are chimney related. It's the wood making things seem that way. It takes a lot to boil moisture out and the stove will be sluggish in the process. As the moisture boils out, the chimney doesn't get up to temp well and draft like it will when hot. To add to the mix, with wood taking off slowly, the operator has the tendency to open the door and poke at things to try and help, and all this does is let smoke into the house since the chimney isn't drawing well enough to pull things around the baffle.
Now that you know how to remove the baffle, it's time to consider the equipment to be able to clean the chimney yourself from the bottom up.
I've only ever done top down cleanings, so I'm not sure what would be best to recommend for cleaning bottom-up in your case (what is flexible enough) but a post in the gear room might help you to pick the right product.
As of now, I'd burn in what you have and take suggestions of BG and others on getting some wood drier by bringing it indoors and/or mixing in some man-made stove fuel. BUT, sweep that chimney soon, and keep it up often for piece of mind. Once you get some experience sweeping it and seeing what you get out in terms of accumulation, you'll gain experience and in the future be better able to tell if it's time to clean or not.
Again, good on you for trying and keeping things on the straight and narrow.
pen
That said, I see nothing there in the video, or from your earlier pics, that would lead one to believe your draft concerns are chimney related. It's the wood making things seem that way. It takes a lot to boil moisture out and the stove will be sluggish in the process. As the moisture boils out, the chimney doesn't get up to temp well and draft like it will when hot. To add to the mix, with wood taking off slowly, the operator has the tendency to open the door and poke at things to try and help, and all this does is let smoke into the house since the chimney isn't drawing well enough to pull things around the baffle.
Now that you know how to remove the baffle, it's time to consider the equipment to be able to clean the chimney yourself from the bottom up.
I've only ever done top down cleanings, so I'm not sure what would be best to recommend for cleaning bottom-up in your case (what is flexible enough) but a post in the gear room might help you to pick the right product.
As of now, I'd burn in what you have and take suggestions of BG and others on getting some wood drier by bringing it indoors and/or mixing in some man-made stove fuel. BUT, sweep that chimney soon, and keep it up often for piece of mind. Once you get some experience sweeping it and seeing what you get out in terms of accumulation, you'll gain experience and in the future be better able to tell if it's time to clean or not.
Again, good on you for trying and keeping things on the straight and narrow.
pen
Being in Utah you should have plenty of juniper and oak. Both great wood. My friend would bring me a load every year of Utah scrub oak (4-6" diameter). Awesome stuff for over night burns. But juniper is a worthy wood as well. With the dry climate if you cut earlyy in the year it can be ready by winter but a 2 year wait is best. I used to leave mine uncovered all spring and summer as there is not enough rain to worry about. I usually covered by October just so I didn't have to dig through snow to get to it.
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