Zero-tolerance Insert Options.?

[Tyler]

I have an existing insert in my home. 1700 sq ft brick ranch. Insert is centrally located.

The hearth is brick but is zero-tolerance. Has a sheet metal box deal that goes up into a cone and attaches to pipe.

My existing insert is an old Appalacian that is missing a few parts. But the blower works.

Wanting to replace it with something more efficient and maybe longer burn times.

What are my options?
Hearth opening dimensions are 30" wide and 23" tall. Depth is at least 24".

 

[webby3650]

Many people on here have a bad opinion of inserts in prefab zero clearance fireplaces. There are several units on the market that are approved for this type of install. I have done several Lopi 1750's in prefabs, its a good fit most of the time.
Do you already have an insulated liner in there? Its a must in this situation. Have you considered a freestanding hearthstove instead of an insert?

 

[Tyler]

Do you already have an insulated liner in there? Its a must in this situation. Have you considered a freestanding hearthstove instead of an insert?

Yea I have a liner already installed. I put everything in new about 1.5years ago when I completely remodeled my house. The only thing original is the sheet metal box that transitions into the cone part. It used to have the old style triple wall pipe that was 16" then 12" then 8". All inside of each other.

My hearth only comes out maybe 16-20" as you can see from the picture. I realize zero tolerance is not the best option but I couldn't change it when I did my remodel.

Is Lopi 1750 my only option? Thank you

 

[Tyler]

I wouldn't mind sitting a stove on my hearth if there was one that would fit?

 

[Nick Mystic]

Tyler, your hearth looks very similar to mine, except in my setup my fireplace and chimney are all masonry and brick. For clarification, are you saying that you are presently running a 6" stainless steel flex liner inside your old triple wall pipe flue?

My hearth extension is two bricks wide, the same as yours, measuring 17". I placed a Jotul F600 on the extension, which needed just under 17" for the legs. However, this stove sticks out in the back, so you have to be able to slide the stove into the fireplace opening about six inches. I slid my stove back far enough that the rear legs would rest inside the fireplace so that the extension wouldn't have to carry the full weight of the stove. With your smaller opening and low top dimension your choice of stoves it going to be much more limited. For example, my F600 needs a 33" tall opening. You might be able find a freestanding stove that comes with a short leg kit, but 23" sounds awfully low for fitting a freestander in front of opening. Good Luck.

 

[Grisu]

If the height of your fireplace opening measured from the hearth is really only 23" then I am not sure if you can fit any stove with a decent size under it. The Regency H2100 would be the only option I can think of but that has only a 1.6 cu ft firebox. Nevertheless, have you measured the actual fireplace opening by pulling the surround of the insert? Given the depth that you stated I have the feeling it will be taller than 23".

As for whether it is code-compliant to put an insert into a ZC fireplace see this very recent discussion here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/will-wood-stove-save-me-money.131599/#post-1769980 and the following pages. In essence, it is a grey area and it may be best to ask your local building inspector and to check with your home insurance.

How did the Appalachian work for you? Was it able to heat the house? Do you know its firebox size?

 

[Tyler]

I took out the old style triple wall completely. Then I put in the double-wall stainless pipe. (I think dura-vent). The stove pipe place sold me a thimble to attach from the cone to the new pipe. I don't have brick going up my "chimney". Only brick is what you see in the picture.

 

[Tyler]

How did the Appalachian work for you? Was it able to heat the house? Do you know its firebox size?

It works alright just an older stove and can't seem to get it to remain constant. Could be partially a non-seasoned wood problem. It really was only able to hear my living room(14x14) and the kitchen (14x20). Just had a hard time moving heat thru the house. I have an air return for my furnace above the stove to help circulate the heat. The fire box is 12" deepx 12" tall x 16" wide. So 1.6 cu ft??

 

[begreen]

Are you totally sure this is a ZC fireplace? We can't tell with the old insert in place. I'm wondering if there is a change that it might be a Superior or Heatilator heatform unit? If so that's a different animal. If it has a metal floor it most likely is a ZC unit.

 

[KB007]

More pictures with the sheet metal surround off would probably help. With that depth I'd be trying really hard to fit a free standing stove on the hearth with either a rear or top exit.

 

[Tyler]

Are you totally sure this is a ZC fireplace? We can't tell with the old insert in place. I'm wondering if there is a change that it might be a Superior or Heatilator heatform unit? If so that's a different animal. If it has a metal floor it most likely is a ZC unit.
View attachment 139782

It looks like the picture and yes the floor is metal. Is this good or bad? I'll try to pull the insert out and take pictures. But I do know it has a handle to open and close damper.

My cone is more of a true cone and is more circular and less square.

 

[begreen]

If the floor is metal and raised then it stands a good chance at being a ZC. If so, there should be a make and model number on the manufacturer tag on the ZC's front frame side or bottom.

 

[Tyler]

If the floor is metal and raised then it stands a good chance at being a ZC. If so, there should be a make and model number on the manufacturer tag on the ZC's front frame side or bottom.

It is for sure metal and raised because when I was remodeling I seen that the original installer put bricks underneath it to support the back of it. When I had stove out before last winter I didn't see a tag on it anywhere

 

[begreen]

There almost always is a small tag somewhere on the front frame perimeter.

 

[bholler]

I am sorry to say that if it is a zero clearance unit and you took off the original chimney and from the sound of it removed the interior refractory panels there is no way it is acceptable to put an insert in it. I am against inserts in prefabs in general but with the fact that you modified the zc box already i dont think even the guys that support inserts in zc units will say it is ok

 

[begreen]

Upgraded class A pipe with a ss new liner is not a liability. I am not reading about removing refractory panels. Eyes must be getting tired.

 

[Tyler]

There almost always is a small tag somewhere on the front frame perimeter.

I'll look and see

 

[bholler]

He said that it was a metal floor which i wont say was never done but i havnt seen it which is why i said it sounds like but really we need a model number to know anything. And unless the fireplace said it was ok to use a class a it is a modification that is not allowed by any of the stove manufacturers instructions or the zc manufacturers instructions.

 

[Tyler]

I am sorry to say that if it is a zero clearance unit and you took off the original chimney and from the sound of it removed the interior refractory panels there is no way it is acceptable to put an insert in it. I am against inserts in prefabs in general but with the fact that you modified the zc box already i dont think even the guys that support inserts in zc units will say it is ok

Refractory panels? Mine looks just like the picture that "begreen" posted. Who mentioned refractory panels?

The original chimney was old style triple wall pipe attached to the top of the cone. I just replaced it with the stainless steel double wall pipe like you would go through An attic

 

[bholler]

That is why we need to know the model number almost all zeroclearance units have refactory panels inside but we still dont know about yours. The picture bg posted is of a metal firebox that would be built into a masonry fire box. The reason we dont think that is what you have is because yours has a metal floor which is not normal for that type of unit. If it is a prefab zero clearance unit it would have a list of chimneys that you can use with it if you used something else that is not allowed by code the ul listing or the manufacturers instuctions. But this is all speculation without knowing what unit you have. I didn't necessarily think you took out the panels but some one may have previously we need to know what you have to know if there were supposed to be ones there like most other zc units.

 

[Grisu]

I think some pictures of the fireplace with the surround off or even the insert pulled out would be very helpful. Otherwise, we would need to continue a lot of speculation and second-guessing.

 

[bholler]

Yes i agree grisu Another question is is the insert connected to the class a chimney directly?

 

[webby3650]

I could see the class A conversion being an issue too. Most units have a gap around the flue collar on the fireplace that's open to the cooling wall of the pipe. Now that the air cooled pipe is gone, the outer jacket on the fireplace won't have cool air circulating around it.