I have home in Southern California in the desert so it does get mildly cold in winter. Last year I spent over 2200 on my heating bill which was central heater ran off propane and out of that 2200 I spent 1700 in just the winter months. Price of propane per gallon is about 4.50 in winter. I am thinking it has to be cheaper to heat my house with wood burning stove. My house is 1500 sqft and open floor plan I am looking into the regency h2100 because it's only one that will fit in my tiny fireplace. After install It will cost me 3600 is it worth the cost? Any advice suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks
Will wood stove save me money
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If you can save $1000+ per year on propane it will eventually pay for itself, another thing to keep in mind, wood heat is a nicer heat, warms your bones, much better than baseboard or hot air. Have to factor wood into the equation too. Can you install a hearth mounted free stander in front of your fireplace? If you can do that you may be able to get a bigger stove.
According to my rough calculations you used a bit less than 400 gallons of propane, that equates to about 30 million BTU. You can get that from 2 cords of wood. Let's say 1 cord of wood would cost you $250 for a total of $500 per winter. That would give you a fuel cost saving of $1200 per winter at your stated price of propane. If you can scrounge free wood you would only have fuel (gasoline, oil) cost but chainsaw, splitter and other gear will certainly be another investment. If you stick with woodburning and are willing to put in the labor you will come out ahead after a few years.
The H2100 is a bit small for overnight burns. What are the dimensions of your fireplace? How tall is your chimney and do you know its inner dimensions?
The H2100 is a bit small for overnight burns. What are the dimensions of your fireplace? How tall is your chimney and do you know its inner dimensions?
Not sure on chimney single story house built in 1990 though. But fireplace height is 19 width is 30 depth is 14 1/2 and inside width is 20 1/2 . But so far from what you guys are saying it will be way cheaper in long run. And I will buy my firewood in bulk several cords at time with my parents to get better price.
Charles1981
Minister of Fire
Short answer almost certainly.
Long answer: You can buy processed wood, and still save money but not as much. You can buy unprocessed wood and process it yourself (cut it, split it, stack it) and save more money but the work is quiet substantial. You can also scrounge your own wood and save the most amount of money but that can add harvesting standing trees, hauling wood, needing a truck and often times trailer to haul...
In the long answer are many variables that cost money as well - equipment, gas, time, effort ect.
But "almost" certainly you would save money on propane, but there are always variables that occur sometimes that can frustrate situations. House Insulation, Draft, Stove Size, Installation concerns, Dry vs Wet wood, access to wood, ect.
Long answer: You can buy processed wood, and still save money but not as much. You can buy unprocessed wood and process it yourself (cut it, split it, stack it) and save more money but the work is quiet substantial. You can also scrounge your own wood and save the most amount of money but that can add harvesting standing trees, hauling wood, needing a truck and often times trailer to haul...
In the long answer are many variables that cost money as well - equipment, gas, time, effort ect.
But "almost" certainly you would save money on propane, but there are always variables that occur sometimes that can frustrate situations. House Insulation, Draft, Stove Size, Installation concerns, Dry vs Wet wood, access to wood, ect.
That is small. Is that a masonry or a zero clearance fireplace? Can you post a picture?
![[Hearth.com] Will wood stove save me money](/talk/data/attachments/139/139637-893d965d9479f628de7fc4bc47df153a.jpg?hash=qUTyFlDL2R)
bluedogz
Minister of Fire
I asked the same questions once...
I found that a wood stove did save me quite a lot, but I had to WANT to. I say this because wood heat is a bit more complex than "flip a switch and walk away." Not only do you need to obtain the wood, but you need to obtain the correct type of DRY wood- if you get serious you'll find yourself eyeballing chainsaws, axes, splitters, and tractors.
Once you get established, the savings over your propane use can be significant. Just be careful what you wish for.
I found that a wood stove did save me quite a lot, but I had to WANT to. I say this because wood heat is a bit more complex than "flip a switch and walk away." Not only do you need to obtain the wood, but you need to obtain the correct type of DRY wood- if you get serious you'll find yourself eyeballing chainsaws, axes, splitters, and tractors.
Once you get established, the savings over your propane use can be significant. Just be careful what you wish for.
I can't tell for sure with my old man eyes but that looks like a pre-fab zero clearance deal . You would not want to put a wood stove in that they tell me.
That looks like a prefab fireplace. Does it have a stainless steel pipe in a chase as a chimney? We have discussion here on a regular basis whether you can put an insert in such a fireplace. Most likely the manual/manufacturer of the fireplace will say that the unit is not approved for putting an insert in. However, some insert manufacturers approve their units for use in a zero clearance fireplace. It is certainly a grey area and your local building code/inspector and your home insurance may be ok with it or not.
I feel the best and a safe way of using that fireplace would be to put a freestanding rear-vented stove in front of the fireplace and run an insulated liner in the existing chimney. A small catalytic stove like the Woodstock Keystone would be perfect considering your low heating load. The final result would look similar to this:
![[Hearth.com] Will wood stove save me money](/talk/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.woodpellets.com%2Fimages%2Fappliances%2FWoodstock_Soapstone_Keystone_Wood_Stove_PD.jpg&hash=255baadec28d3cbd7071a57e64a9b6f1 "[Hearth.com] Will wood stove save me money")
How high is the lintel up from the floor? How deep is the hearth (non-combustible floor)? Is that a wood mantel or is it non-combustible?
I feel the best and a safe way of using that fireplace would be to put a freestanding rear-vented stove in front of the fireplace and run an insulated liner in the existing chimney. A small catalytic stove like the Woodstock Keystone would be perfect considering your low heating load. The final result would look similar to this:
How high is the lintel up from the floor? How deep is the hearth (non-combustible floor)? Is that a wood mantel or is it non-combustible?
This is a zero-clearance fireplace. We need to see if it is approved for installation of an insert in order to find a match. What is the make and model? (on tag on inside frame)
Yaa i dont plan to actually get into the cutting my own trees and and splitting the wood but i will be payig about 200 per cord of pure oak that has been seasoned for 1 year. my parents have older style wood burning stove and they use this wood and it seems to get very hot. i just hope the stove i get will heat my whole house
my mantel is wood. the hearth is 18 inches. not to sure what lintel is sorry i googled it but didnt help. And yes it has stainless steel pipe running uip through chimney.
The hearth would need to be extended quite a bit and with the mantel being wood you will need to make sure you have enough rear-clearance. The Keystone needs 15" with rear heat-shield. What you need to measure is the height of the fireplace opening from the floor to know if the rear-exhaust pipe of the stove will fit underneath. Of course, all that assumes you would be ok with installing a hearth-mounted stove.
"...Southern California in the desert so it does get mildly cold in winter. Last year I spent over 2200 on my heating bill..."
That sounds like a great deal of money on heat in a warm climate. I am wondering if your $3600 would be better spent on careful filling of air infiltration points?
That sounds like a great deal of money on heat in a warm climate. I am wondering if your $3600 would be better spent on careful filling of air infiltration points?
in winter its about 35 at night at cold times but house has great insulation just propane so expensive. so do you think the original stove i was looking at wont work for my fireplace or its just not big enough the regency h2100
bluedogz
Minister of Fire
Grisu did the math above, which suggests that your insulation may not be as great as you think. Regardless of how expensive propane is per gallon, you used a certain number of units, which is a function of your insulation, not your fuel.
Enzo's Dad
Feeling the Heat
Poindexter
Minister of Fire
I agree with the consensus you have a zero clearance stove. A shockingly thin sheetmetal box with some refractory on the inside.
good news:
1) they _usually_ require a straight shot chimney from the firebox. Once that thing is out you should be able to run a stove chimney through both your interior ceiling and roofing without having to use any elbows. You will have to adjust the shingles a bit for the new chimney flashing, and you'll need to patch the drywall on the interior ceiling. It should otherwise be a smal-dunk install. You shouldn't have to cut a rafter and put in purlins to make a hole in the roof framing straight up from the hole in the ground floor ceiling below, it should already be done.
Considerations:
1. I encourage you to find a BTU calculator online. US Forestry service has one, and I think connecticut dot gov has one online as well. What I encourage you to do is figure out for yourself how many BTUs of propane you bought (I think someone did that for you above already) - and then look carefully at how much money you can "save" by switching to wood - and then look carefully at both how much "work" you have to do to save the cash and your startup cost - new chimney install and new woodstove, and be confident of how much "less" you will spending on wood.
I live in an area with lots and lots of trees. Plenty of wood cutters in competition with each other. A cord of wood for me in May and June is priced just barely above the price of the fuel to go get it. I am not willing to work as cheap as those guys so it is often economical for me to have green wood delivered that I just stack and season myself. FWIW my local math is with #2 fuel oil at $3.85/ gallon a cord of good local firewood (birch at 20M btu / cord, and 95cf of it) is "worth" $510. BTU per BTU. If I have to spend $510 for a cord of wood delivered I might as well have the oil delivered and not fool with splitting and stacking and seasoning and then carrying the whole cord in the house and up the stairs and then carry the ashes back out....
2. Keep it real. Then you got to look at the BTU calculator and figure out how many feet of wood are in "a cord". In general a pro wood cutter puts about 75cf in "a cord" expecting thats once it is split and stacked it will fill a 128cf box. Engineering tables expect 85cf of wood to be stacked inside the 128cf box. When a forester stacks wood into a 125cf box s/he can fit 95 cf of wood in there. None of them are "right" or "wrong", it just is. But if you base your math on 95cf of wood per cord and the pro brings 75cf and charges you the same $200 your numbers aren'g going to work.
3. What are your other options? Given your climate I ass/u/me passive and active solar are both _possibilities_ for your location. Every solar system i have looked at has a really high startup cost - and thus a long payback period, but you at least have sunlight. What about pellets? Just asking. Your startup and install cost could be lower, even significantly lower than going with a cord wood stove where your zero clearance fireplace is now. How expensive are pellets for you on the BTU calculator? You might could run a pellet chimney up your existing zero cleanace chimney, or even put a pellet stove in a different room in your house. For me pellets at $7.00 per bag are as expensive as fuel oil. At $3.50 per bag pellets are about the same as cordwood but less hassle.
FWIW the first year I burnt wood I "saved" almost but not quite enough to pay myself back for taking out a zero clearance unit and putting in a new double wall chimeny. I had the chimney installed by pros but did all the demolition and drywall repair myself. I had to burn seven cords of wood to get there.
good news:
1) they _usually_ require a straight shot chimney from the firebox. Once that thing is out you should be able to run a stove chimney through both your interior ceiling and roofing without having to use any elbows. You will have to adjust the shingles a bit for the new chimney flashing, and you'll need to patch the drywall on the interior ceiling. It should otherwise be a smal-dunk install. You shouldn't have to cut a rafter and put in purlins to make a hole in the roof framing straight up from the hole in the ground floor ceiling below, it should already be done.
Considerations:
1. I encourage you to find a BTU calculator online. US Forestry service has one, and I think connecticut dot gov has one online as well. What I encourage you to do is figure out for yourself how many BTUs of propane you bought (I think someone did that for you above already) - and then look carefully at how much money you can "save" by switching to wood - and then look carefully at both how much "work" you have to do to save the cash and your startup cost - new chimney install and new woodstove, and be confident of how much "less" you will spending on wood.
I live in an area with lots and lots of trees. Plenty of wood cutters in competition with each other. A cord of wood for me in May and June is priced just barely above the price of the fuel to go get it. I am not willing to work as cheap as those guys so it is often economical for me to have green wood delivered that I just stack and season myself. FWIW my local math is with #2 fuel oil at $3.85/ gallon a cord of good local firewood (birch at 20M btu / cord, and 95cf of it) is "worth" $510. BTU per BTU. If I have to spend $510 for a cord of wood delivered I might as well have the oil delivered and not fool with splitting and stacking and seasoning and then carrying the whole cord in the house and up the stairs and then carry the ashes back out....
2. Keep it real. Then you got to look at the BTU calculator and figure out how many feet of wood are in "a cord". In general a pro wood cutter puts about 75cf in "a cord" expecting thats once it is split and stacked it will fill a 128cf box. Engineering tables expect 85cf of wood to be stacked inside the 128cf box. When a forester stacks wood into a 125cf box s/he can fit 95 cf of wood in there. None of them are "right" or "wrong", it just is. But if you base your math on 95cf of wood per cord and the pro brings 75cf and charges you the same $200 your numbers aren'g going to work.
3. What are your other options? Given your climate I ass/u/me passive and active solar are both _possibilities_ for your location. Every solar system i have looked at has a really high startup cost - and thus a long payback period, but you at least have sunlight. What about pellets? Just asking. Your startup and install cost could be lower, even significantly lower than going with a cord wood stove where your zero clearance fireplace is now. How expensive are pellets for you on the BTU calculator? You might could run a pellet chimney up your existing zero cleanace chimney, or even put a pellet stove in a different room in your house. For me pellets at $7.00 per bag are as expensive as fuel oil. At $3.50 per bag pellets are about the same as cordwood but less hassle.
FWIW the first year I burnt wood I "saved" almost but not quite enough to pay myself back for taking out a zero clearance unit and putting in a new double wall chimeny. I had the chimney installed by pros but did all the demolition and drywall repair myself. I had to burn seven cords of wood to get there.
Mellery
Member
Hello! We have the Regency H2100 for the same reason .. size of our tiny prefab fireplace and sq ft (1550). We live in Northern Cali and have mild winters. We used the only certified, licensed chimney and wood stove install guy within 200 miles to confirm we could use this model safely and install it. (After the dealer and mfg said it was good to go in our set up.) Better safe than sorry to us.
Our fireplace is on a stone wall, floor to ceiling and quite wide. The stone wall has a small, quiet fan in the bottom on either side and vents up to circulate the warm air out. So the stone keeps the home warm for hours if the fire goes out. I can't really tell what's surrounding your fireplace? Either way, husband or I are always up at some point in the night and will reload wood then. If you sleep all night, it might be a problem for you as you won't get all-night burns. But we come pretty close and those rare nights neither of us wake, there are plenty of coals to get the fire going again quickly. Every morning we take out ash to create more room in the firebox for the wood. We use a small steel, hand shovel and bucket and then take that outside since you don't want hot ash sitting in your home. Once the ash cools, you dispose of it.
Where is your fireplace located in your home? Good stuff if it's in the middle.
We love our stove and the big glass, viewing area of the fire. It's the radiant and convective heat together that, to us is so warm it's priceless. This heat warms to the bone, so comfy! But also warms the walls, the floors, the furniture, everything. Not just the air like furnaces. We have a propane furnace also and don't use it anymore except for hot water and do fill it in the summer (2.20 gallon).
It does take time to operate and keep it going. We work from home so this isn't an issue for us. It also takes time to learn how to use it but all wood stoves have a learning curve.
Cons: The convective air moving out the top of the unit creates a fine dust that has to be cleaned up off the floor and furniture and stuff in the stove room. All inserts create this fine dust, I believe. Since there are no ducts, vents and giant blower, you'll have to figure how to move the warm air around your home to the different rooms, even if you use the blower that comes with the stove. Little fan at the end of the house blowing colder air into the stove room works for us. We use a tiny fan like computers have. Small, quiet and very effective. The firebox isn't the biggest on the market, so more reloads. We prefer our bedrooms cool/cold for sleeping - love it that way!
Money wise, it will probably take us another 2-3 years to get our initial investment back (stove, install, wood, taking down walls to create an open-concept, etc). So the longer it holds up well after that point, the better our investment. I have to say if it died today, I'd go buy another
I like it that much. It's a whole life thing lol so cozy and good for the soul. I actually look forward to winter so we can burn.
Once you get the procedure for wood-burning down, it's a lot easier. But it still takes time. Not just push a button and get heat.
Our fireplace is on a stone wall, floor to ceiling and quite wide. The stone wall has a small, quiet fan in the bottom on either side and vents up to circulate the warm air out. So the stone keeps the home warm for hours if the fire goes out. I can't really tell what's surrounding your fireplace? Either way, husband or I are always up at some point in the night and will reload wood then. If you sleep all night, it might be a problem for you as you won't get all-night burns. But we come pretty close and those rare nights neither of us wake, there are plenty of coals to get the fire going again quickly. Every morning we take out ash to create more room in the firebox for the wood. We use a small steel, hand shovel and bucket and then take that outside since you don't want hot ash sitting in your home. Once the ash cools, you dispose of it.
Where is your fireplace located in your home? Good stuff if it's in the middle.
We love our stove and the big glass, viewing area of the fire. It's the radiant and convective heat together that, to us is so warm it's priceless. This heat warms to the bone, so comfy! But also warms the walls, the floors, the furniture, everything. Not just the air like furnaces. We have a propane furnace also and don't use it anymore except for hot water and do fill it in the summer (2.20 gallon).
It does take time to operate and keep it going. We work from home so this isn't an issue for us. It also takes time to learn how to use it but all wood stoves have a learning curve.
Cons: The convective air moving out the top of the unit creates a fine dust that has to be cleaned up off the floor and furniture and stuff in the stove room. All inserts create this fine dust, I believe. Since there are no ducts, vents and giant blower, you'll have to figure how to move the warm air around your home to the different rooms, even if you use the blower that comes with the stove. Little fan at the end of the house blowing colder air into the stove room works for us. We use a tiny fan like computers have. Small, quiet and very effective. The firebox isn't the biggest on the market, so more reloads. We prefer our bedrooms cool/cold for sleeping - love it that way!
Money wise, it will probably take us another 2-3 years to get our initial investment back (stove, install, wood, taking down walls to create an open-concept, etc). So the longer it holds up well after that point, the better our investment. I have to say if it died today, I'd go buy another
I like it that much. It's a whole life thing lol so cozy and good for the soul. I actually look forward to winter so we can burn.Once you get the procedure for wood-burning down, it's a lot easier. But it still takes time. Not just push a button and get heat.
I would like to say that unless you get approval in writing from the manufatcurer of the prefab unit and the chimney that it is ok to put an insert and liner in their units it is not a good idea and mellery what type of certification did your chimney guy have because if it was csia he should not have done that install it goes against the recommendations of csia and violates their code of ethics. That is how i feel others feel differently but i do know that csia one of the biggest chimney safety organizations in the country has the same position on the subject.
That hearth heater is not really an insert but more like a leg-less stove that sits right in front of the fireplace. What it needs is a hearth with a r-value of 1.1 and 1.5" thick. Not sure what the OP has.
The has been hashed over enough. If the stove mfg lists the ZC as acceptable for their insert, diligence and suitability has been done. CSIA is not recommending this because their lawyers said so, not because they have investigated and found high risk.
Here, once again, is the specific response I got from CSIA:
The CSIA position currently is that it is not appropriate. The listing for the insert is global and suggests that it was not specifically tested in that fireplace. There are many liability issues associated with this type of installation that CSIA does not wish to embrace at this time.
You'll note that they say suggests. There are insert companies that don't suggest, they specify specific brands of ZC fireplaces as acceptable. CSIA doesn't want to take a position because their lawyers said don't do it. Not because it is unsafe. They are making a false assumption, that all inserts globally allow them to be installed in ZC fireplaces. That is absolutely incorrect. They might be careful before Travis's lawyers start knocking on their doors.
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