A little bummed over the new stove.

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What I like about the top down method is how fast it kick starts the draft with a large firebox stove. Pile in the small stuff, toss the bows on top, light them and close the door and away it goes. Using Super Cedars this winter worked almost as well because of how hot they burn. But top down is still the king for getting the sucker going from cold in a hurry.
 
I've had much fewer problems since switching away from paper or fatwood to the wax/sawdust (like supercedars) type starter - they stay lit for longer, seem to heat the flue quicker, don't do out when slightly starved of oxygen, and most times I can shut the door almost straight away... I've only had one fire that needed extra blocks ( I use two 1" square blocks). You local hardware store will probably have something similar.

I do also try to do NS/EW stacks to light.
 
oldspark said:
Yes that is the temps for here right now and I more or less started it the way you suggested except for the super cedar, (wife has been burning as long as me) so the fact it takes you a few minutes to get it going makes me think maybe it will just be that way, afther the fire had burt down the new small splits took right off.
Click to expand...

Oldspark, can you describe the flue system in detail? I am wondering if that might be compounding the issue. Is it 6" round? Interior or exterior?

Though it sounds like a normal warm weather start in which case it will almost start itself in the winter with good dry kindling and splits. Starting draft in mild weather can be wimpy when the difference between interior and exterior temps is close. Come winter, when burning 24/7 this becomes a non-issue. There usually will be enough coals and strong enough draft for the fire to start up quickly, often without needing to have the door open.

But for cold start shoulder season burning, expect to have the door ajar for 5-10 minutes. This is when SuperCedars are great to have around for fast lazy starting and/or balky kindling. I would recommend contacting Thomas for a free sample. I was skeptical at first, but now am sold.
 
oldspark, I start my Spectrum exactly as BeGreen describes, except that as soon as I light the tinder (crumbled single sheets of newspaper) I close the stove door. As soon as I close the door the flame is drawn forcefully toward the back of the stove by the combination of chimney draw and an unobstructed OAK. The total length of chimney described in my signature is 18.5' in a straight line from the floor of the firebox to the top of the chimney. My only reason for mentioning this is to explain that not all EPA phase II stoves are difficult to start even when atmospheric conditions are not the best.

PE specifies a 6" diameter chimney system for their Summit. You indicate your chimney is approx 7.5" diameter and 18' tall. Its height seems to be okay but I wonder if the chimney has too large a diameter for an efficient draw for a stove which burns best with a 6" diameter chimney. The larger chimney seems to have been just right for your older stove because it burned so well all those years.

You certainly seem to have enough experience to start a process of elimination to solve the problem. Don't give up on the Summit just yet. It, and all other stoves in the Pacific Energy line are efficient burners and effective space heaters. Their stoves have made thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of owners very happy. I am optomistic yours will soon have you within that satisfied group.

Best wishes, John_M

For the record, I have no financial or other interest in the Pacific Energy company or any of their dealers or distributers.
 
Ah, I missed the chimney details, thanks for repeating them John.
 
Every thing I have read about the chimney size says it is fine, in fact there are some PE owners on this forum with bigger chimneys than mine and they work fine. There are many more people than me that have the start up slow thing, my old stove had a 8 inch flue out of the stove and the 7 1/4 round flue worked fine for it no matter what the weather conditions, in fact there was a slight leak around the flue and it still worked like a champ, I do not have that leak any more with the new set up so the chimney draws better than it did before, like I said the draft when I opened up the door blew out the fire once so the draft should be fine.
 
I really struggled with this on my former stove. Was suggested my chimney was not correct, wood not correct, something other than the stove doesn't breathe well. Get a slow fire started, it struggles, crack the door and the load bursts into flames. Close the door I sat and watched the fire slowly whimper out, and that was with fire starters, too. Didn't matter what I used. So, I started putting a small hair dryer under the stove and fed air into the box. Raging fires. Turn it off, watch the load die out and so, crack the door and wait ridiculously long periods of time for the fire to build in strength, smoking away. Drove me crazy. My chimney is 8". Bought a 6"liner which barely squeezed into it, so the actual diameter is less than 8". No improvement to write home about. I gave up.

Changed stoves, same set up, zero problems starting the stove even with the temps in the low 50s outside. Why? The new stove has no long channels for air to travel through. Direct in at the door, direct in on the secondaries.

I'm certainly not saying all Phase 2 noncat stoves suffer this problem, but many do. It's common sense in the overall design.
 
oldspark said:
Every thing I have read about the chimney size says it is fine, in fact there are some PE owners on this forum with bigger chimneys than mine and they work fine. There are many more people than me that have the start up slow thing, my old stove had a 8 inch flue out of the stove and the 7 1/4 round flue worked fine for it no matter what the weather conditions, in fact there was a slight leak around the flue and it still worked like a champ, I do not have that leak any more with the new set up so the chimney draws better than it did before, like I said the draft when I opened up the door blew out the fire once so the draft should be fine.
Click to expand...

This is a tough time of year to start with a different stove. For certain, the new stove is not going to burn like the old stove. It's not realistic to expect that. Don't get bummed out over having the door cracked open to start the burn. This too will pass as the weather gets colder. But that is not a bad thing. You will get used to burning the new stove and should find it a real joy for cleaner burning, more heat/less wood consumed, simple, ease of use and a great fireview.
 
REF1 said:
I really struggled with this on my former stove. Was suggested my chimney was not correct, wood not correct, something other than the stove doesn't breathe well. Get a slow fire started, it struggles, crack the door and the load bursts into flames. Close the door I sat and watched the fire slowly whimper out, and that was with fire starters, too. Didn't matter what I used. So, I started putting a small hair dryer under the stove and fed air into the box. Raging fires. Turn it off, watch the load die out and so, crack the door and wait ridiculously long periods of time for the fire to build in strength, smoking away. Drove me crazy. My chimney is 8". Bought a 6"liner which barely squeezed into it, so the actual diameter is less than 8". No improvement to write home about. I gave up.

Changed stoves, same set up, zero problems starting the stove even with the temps in the low 50s outside. Why? The new stove has no long channels for air to travel through. Direct in at the door, direct in on the secondaries.

I'm certainly not saying all Phase 2 noncat stoves suffer this problem, but many do. It's common sense in the overall design.
Click to expand...
Now thats interesting, what was your old stove and the new one, the forced air induction was something I was going to try, it seems to work fine after I get it going, I am glad you posted as I felt my set up should work. Your experience should be put in the archives and noted by all who are looking into a nw stove.
 
BeGreen said:
oldspark said:
Every thing I have read about the chimney size says it is fine, in fact there are some PE owners on this forum with bigger chimneys than mine and they work fine. There are many more people than me that have the start up slow thing, my old stove had a 8 inch flue out of the stove and the 7 1/4 round flue worked fine for it no matter what the weather conditions, in fact there was a slight leak around the flue and it still worked like a champ, I do not have that leak any more with the new set up so the chimney draws better than it did before, like I said the draft when I opened up the door blew out the fire once so the draft should be fine.
Click to expand...

This is a tough time of year to start with a different stove. For certain, the new stove is not going to burn like the old stove. It's not realistic to expect that. Don't get bummed out over having the door cracked open to start the burn. This too will pass as the weather gets colder. But that is not a bad thing. You will get used to burning the new stove and should find it a real joy for cleaner burning, more heat/less wood consumed, simple, ease of use and a great fireview.
Click to expand...
I wanted to get the stove a little earlier (long story) but did not work out, I am going to use as much kindling and paper as the lady in the video and crack the door tomorrow morning, I kept shutting the door right away but I will wait a minute or two next time. Windows open in the morning and seeing what I can do, it is a neat stove and love the window.
 
Sounds weird but top down actually works better with the door closed. Just about the time you think the paper is crapping out, the stuff under it takes off. With the door open you are just sending cool air up the pipe.

I shocked and amazed the neighbors a couple of days ago starting my outdoor concrete block grill top down. And there ain't no draft with that sucker. Just wide open straight up to the sky. Big dry splits on the bottom, kindling on the top and a bunch of bows. One match and off to the races and didn't smoke up the yard.
 
oldspark said:
I wanted to get the stove a little earlier (long story) but did not work out, I am going to use as much kindling and paper as the lady in the video and crack the door tomorrow morning, I kept shutting the door right away but I will wait a minute or two next time. Windows open in the morning and seeing what I can do, it is a neat stove and love the window.
Click to expand...

Wait 5 to 10 minutes before closing the door tight. I usually make coffee during this time. It doesn't need to be open a lot, maybe just a 1/2". And experiment. You will be with this stove for quite a while, so try out different methods like the top down burn again. This is like going back to school for some refresher courses. It's ok to make mistakes and have some not so great fire starts. Eventually you will hit the groove and have a method that works well for you and your setup. Just don't expect it to burn like the old Nahsua, this is a completely different stove.
 
Because of this thread, and the fact that it is fifty outside headed for the low thirties tonight, I just started up the 30-NC. The poor man's Summit. Door closed from the git go. Same firebox size. At twenty minutes it is kicking 525 on the stove top.

Time to learn the way to start fires in a EPA stove bro. Took me a while too. It ain't the same as the old ones but it is worth it.
 
BrotherBart said:
Because of this thread, and the fact that it is fifty outside headed for the low thirties tonight, I just started up the 30-NC. The poor man's Summit. Door closed from the git go. Same firebox size. At twenty minutes it is kicking 525 on the stove top.

Time to learn the way to start fires in a EPA stove bro. Took me a while too. It ain't the same as the old ones but it is worth it.
Click to expand...
Well I can try it just like the video but I am starting to think there are several varibles to this and what works for some may not work for all, with out this site I would be tearing my hair out so a learning we will go.
 
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