A couple more Garns going in......

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heaterman

Minister of Fire
Hearth Supporter
Oct 16, 2007
3,374
Falmouth, Michigan
I delivered these 2000's, which will be numbers 3 and 4 for this guy last week. He has an older 1450 heating his house and a 1900 currently providing process heat for his application. The 2 new ones will power an expansion of production at his facility. There are a number of interesting things about this job that I thought would be good to share.

I'll start out by describing what's going on at this place. The facility is in Southeast Ohio near Marietta and they recycle wood pallets, taking them in from all over the Easten US. The pallets are all taken apart, broken pieces are discarded and then re-nailed with new braces or slats as needed. Because they come from all over the place, and given the restrictions on moving wood and lumber due to insects, they have to be "sterilized" or de-bugged before they can be moved back out. The "debugging" is done with heat. In short.....they cook the little critters. Each load goes into the "building" shown in the picture with the blue tarp hanging halfway down. (This particular building is actually a converted semi trailer. The new Garns will be used for another building to be constructed yet)
Once in the debugging building, they drill a hole in four pallets, spaced evenly throughout the load and insert a thermocouple into each. The 1900 is piped directly to a monster water/air heating coil that is about 7 feet wide and 18" tall, having 8 rows of coils in it. The fans behind this coil will move about 6-7,000 cfm at a very high velocity....blow your hair back velocity.. I have no idea what the capability of the coil is but the owner of the pallet facility says they fire the old Garn flat out when they run it. They fabbed up a "duct" that runs full length of the structure to the loading door area. It has openings at 1/3 and 2/3 also, along with manually adjustable shutters to balance airflow front to back. The blue curtain hanging halfway down keeps the heat from short circuiting back to the ceiling mounted coil. You can see the thermocouple lead hanging out of the pallets on the left. The pallets themselves have to be brought to 140* internal temp and held there for a half hour. The half hour time does not start until the last thermocouple hits the magic number. You can imagine the btu's needed to bring that many tons of wood up to 140*.

A question that I hear frequently is, does a Garn have to be in a heated building? Simple answer, no it does not. The building these two went into is insulated but has no auxiliary heat in it. It measures about 20' front to back and maybe 18' side to side with a 12 foot ceiling. He constructed it out of recycled lumber and used steel panels and simply put batt insulation in the walls. If he had those two up at 180* with no load on them, he could probably shut the door and it would be 2-3 weeks before they got down to critical temps even in the middle of winter.

The second thing is how he addressed the issue of a very uneven floor. As you can see from the picture, he constructed a base made from steel I-beam to compensate for the slope in the concrete. The new Garn building was erected over what used to be outside storage area and it was sloped for drainage. So he adapted to the given circumstances. I thought his approach to insulating under the Garns was unique and worth sharing. He simply took pieces of plywood and cut them to fit on the rails of the I-beam and then placed R-19 batts on top of that. There is probably 6" of slope from the front left corner to the back right corner of the slab and the base he constructed compensates for that.
The additional benefit is that the loading door of the Garns is about 9" higher than normal. This puts everything up at a level where bending over is not required.

Another issue that usually comes up when burning scrap lumber is the size of the fuel itself. Dry pallet slats are not much more than kindling and when you throw a bunch into a wood burner that moves combustion air at the velocity of a Garn, a person can wind up with severe overheating of the steel in the firebox not exposed to water. They address that problem by simply stacking the "fine" stuff so it presents a burn surface similar to a full log rather than a bunch of little pieces of kindling. He learned this after cracking the air collar on the 1900. The fuel for the Garns is palletized .....go figure.... and brought into the Garn building via fork lift. (now that's how to handle a burn load of a few hundred pounds a day!) The slats are mixed with the bulkier stuff you see in the picture and stacked in there pretty densely.

He is not using a plate HX even though there is an elevation change from the Garn's to the coil. He simply designed his piping so he could do a very effective air purge and then sealed it up. Once that is done the pump selected simply has to circulate the water and not provide additional "lift". This allows the actual temperature of the water in the Garn to hit the coil and eliminates the typical temp drop across a plate HX.

Fire away if you have questions.
 

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With a Garn, do you think you could get away with feeding it a good bed of clean dry wood chips and then throwing a layer of decent size splits over the top to compress the chips? My thought is you could get away with say 75% of your fuel coming in the form of chips while still having the option of going all cord wood as opposed to something like the bioburner where you are locked in.
 
SolarAndWood said:
With a Garn, do you think you could get away with feeding it a good bed of clean dry wood chips and then throwing a layer of decent size splits over the top to compress the chips? My thought is you could get away with say 75% of your fuel coming in the form of chips while still having the option of going all cord wood as opposed to something like the bioburner where you are locked in.

I wouldn't recommend it. At least not at that ratio. If a guy had a load of cordwood in it that was 50% burned down you could maybe get away with throwing a bucket full on top of the wood and letting it burn but you'd get a lot of embers going all the way through the exhaust. The air volume moving through a Garn is not the same as normal wood burner. Once the chips got burned down a bit and lost some mass I think you'd hear all kinds of stuff rattling through the blower wheel. Probably not a good practice no matter what.
 
Thanks Heaterman. Do you know of any gasifiers that will do this? Or are the biomass/pellet style boilers essentially mutually exclusive from the wood gasifiers?
 
Steve, what did you do with the cracked air collar? Weld it, replace it, leave it, or...?

Did stacking the wood sideways remove the necessity for the fire brick or a 2x4?

I ask this because unfortunately I have been in a walker for five weeks after surgery to both of my feet. I have not been able to go outside the house. I cheated the other day when my wife was not looking and snuck out with the walker to the boiler room to find a crack in the front of the ring above the inlet. My wife had gotten into some limb wood that I had not realized was stored in the woodshed and had loaded it without a brick. I am sure it was puffing a while. The wood is about 14% moisture. she is now using the firebrick on every load as I will not let her use the chop saw to cut up 2x4's or 2x6's.

Attached is a photo a neighbor took of the limb wood in the trailer and stacked in the woodshed and one of the crack.
 

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That wood looks a lot like my normal supply.

Perhaps something for a new thread, but I can see a new splitter is in my future. I have been looking at the Impact Splitters but of course they are 24" max, ideal for the stove but not so good for the Garns.

But a 36" Hydraulic is not cheap.

Just wondered what most people did.
 
David, I use a 24" splitter. It will split 25.75" max. This does not seem to be to small in my 2000 after I leave space in front of the intake and room before the refractory so I do not damage the liner. I can still comfortably load 175# of 15-20% mostly hard maple.

The pieces I was more referring to that my wife used were like what is stacked in the right bin. If the wood in the trailer was pine, I would also have to worry about puffing as it ignites so easily. If I loaded all the smaller round hardwood on top of the trailer I would also have problems without a brick.
 
George: I hope you are feeling better! Wow, that crack is right along the weld? Does the door still seal tightly across the "face" with the split? Do you feel any air blowing out along the gasket? Looks like a big crack. I guess the air collar overheated and warped "outwards" somewhat? I've felt the air collar get pretty hot along the bottom section before......is it obvious why the bottom section would get so much hotter than the top? Is the stainless shield and "ceramic" liner in place across the front? I can't see it in the picture. Do you ever have coals/fire right up across the front?

Puffing is one thing....but I guess it is obvious to me why this would get so hot here. There's still a huge amount of air blowing through...is there ignition of woodgas within the air collar? Wouldn't think it hot enough nor possible for gas to migrate into this area...with the blower going...

Hope your back on your feet soon!
 
I am feeling better Bruce. They pull the steel pins out of my toes next Monday. I will be down to the boiler without sneaking out very soon.

I cannot go down to the boiler but I do not think the crack is on a weld. The photo may be misleading. The door was sealing when I was down there and discovered it. Phyllis said that it is sealing and no smoke is visible.

The shield is on the door, is that what you mean? There is also a shield inside the chamber along the bottom of the ring where the air enters the chamber.
 

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Sorry to hear you're laid up Sawyer. That is the pits.

The crack in that particular location on the air collar is due to extremely high temperatures right up against it. Usually generated by a large load of smallish diameter wood that is either stacked right in front of the air collar or else falls right by it as the fire digests the load.

It has little, if any consequence in the life expectancy or the operation of the Garn. I ran across one that was cracked not only on the bottom but also on the top. It turned out that the user was filling the firebox with short pieces of wood, stacked sideways. That exposes a large area of the fuel to the air flow and turns the pile into something more like a forge rather than a wood burner. Temperatures equal to what normally occur in the secondary chamber on a Garn were being generated right on the face of the collar. It literally melts the steel.

As far as what to do about it......The common fix is to simply drill a hole at the end of the crack and then weld it. You can check with the guys at the factory on this but I'm pretty sure this will be what they recommend. The crack has no impact on the integrity of the Garn water jacket nor does it affect operation in any way. I saw an old one (circa mid 1980's) that the owner said had been cracked for many, many years. He never did anything about it and just revised his loading habits to keep the wood a little further back in the firebox.
 
SolarAndWood said:
Thanks Heaterman. Do you know of any gasifiers that will do this? Or are the biomass/pellet style boilers essentially mutually exclusive from the wood gasifiers?

I don't know of any right off the top of my head. The firebox/grate design is totally different for chips vs cordwood so a boiler able to do both would just about have to have a separate firebox for each fuel in order to work correctly.
 
AH, thanks for the updated picture George....now it is very clear. I thought the weld had opened from the front flange to the colar "box", but I see now it is just the usual "ring" around the front plate from the "tadpole" gasket on the door. I was refering to the thin shield inside right around the bottom air inlet. Yes, it doesn't seem that this crack would really matter....just a small amount of air would leave it. My only thought would be to try and keep ashes out of fallign in the crack, into the air collar.

Glad your healing up well! I've known a few who had feet surgery, and they always have felt better once those pins are out! I can't imagine what it feels like to "drag" the end of the pin on something....much worse than the dentist drill! :)
 
this sould have no effect on the operation of the garn , because it is behind the door seal, or should i say inside the door seal. the problems with huffing at a perticular stage is lack of air. ( period ) when it gets to huffing real good just open the door a little and it will quit. problem fixed. now just think, a little more air and wala, no more huff&puff;. works perfect on mine, but may not on yours.
 
Here's a couple pictures of the one that was being loaded with the wood sideways. As you can see, it split in the middle of the cut out for the air inlet which of course is the weakest point. The heat here was so intense that some of the metal had actually melted on the edge of the crack. This was at the top of the air collar so you can imagine how much wood was in there........I think the owner told me he was getting nearly 60* rise per one load of wood.

Excuse the fuzzy cell phone pics and please ignore the big ugly sucker in the lower part of the picture. ;)
 

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Steve....I've been getting 55-60 swings nearly every burn lately. This is with my 1500 chamber filled up quite a bit....not stuffed, but likely 80%. 24" splits. Soft maple, cherry, and ash primarily....sometimes a bit of red oak. Should we back off a bit? Seems like I've been burning just about 2:15 or so on the digital timer to get this swing....
 
bpirger said:
Steve....I've been getting 55-60 swings nearly every burn lately. This is with my 1500 chamber filled up quite a bit....not stuffed, but likely 80%. 24" splits. Soft maple, cherry, and ash primarily....sometimes a bit of red oak. Should we back off a bit? Seems like I've been burning just about 2:15 or so on the digital timer to get this swing....

No I think you're fine with that on a 1500. This guy has a 2000 and jumping that much water by 60+* is almost a million btu. Combustion chamber is the same size in both so that's a real jag of wood in the beastie.
 
heaterman said:
bpirger said:
Steve....I've been getting 55-60 swings nearly every burn lately. This is with my 1500 chamber filled up quite a bit....not stuffed, but likely 80%. 24" splits. Soft maple, cherry, and ash primarily....sometimes a bit of red oak. Should we back off a bit? Seems like I've been burning just about 2:15 or so on the digital timer to get this swing....

No I think you're fine with that on a 1500. This guy has a 2000 and jumping that much water by 60+* is almost a million btu. Combustion chamber is the same size in both so that's a real jag of wood in the beastie.

Steve, I get 55-60 degrees gain in temperature on 150# of 15% MC hard maple, 24" lengths. With load @ 4.75 gpm DeltaT of 22*.

Am I overloading? If I am I would rather change my habits.

When I was doing these calculations I was getting a clean burn without puffing. Peak flue temp 490*, 1 hour-5 minutes into the burn. I was down to 310*, 1 hour-45 minutes into the burn. In this example the start time was 9:50am, ending at 12:35 pm, flue temp 165*.
 
I'd say that you're about perfect there Sawyer. 50-60* is not out of the ordinary on a 2000 with the fuel you describe. The cracking issue in the unit referenced above was brought about by the way the unit was being loaded and the type of wood being burned. Mixed hard and soft wood, very dry, mostly smallish splits and stacked in sideways.
Those parameters caused the entire load of fuel to ignite at once rather than "burn through" from front to back which made tremendous heat in the firebox itself. From the looks of it I would have to guess that the whole combustion chamber was in secondary burn mode which would normally occur only in the refractory chamber....Pretty obvious that it was because of the melting observed on the air inlet steel.

All in all, it wasn't and isn't a big deal if that crack is there or not. I don't see any way that it would effect the integrity of the water jacket or possibly cause a scenario where one would have to discontinue operation of the unit. The owner hired a guy to come in a weld it up and forwarded the bill to Garn.
 
Thanks Steve, I will drill a hole to stop the crack and grind it clean. I will then invite my neighbor to come over and demonstrate his welding skills.
 
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