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advice on a fisher installation

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by kjsnooks, Sep 20, 2007.

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  1. kjsnooks

    kjsnooks New Member

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    Hi there. I just picked up a fisher stove. I believe its the mama bear version. It has dbl doors with a vent knob on each door. I am wondering if i intall the stove with 18" clearance from the wall if that will be sufficient. I live in a dbl wide home. The stove is almost new the people who sold it used it once or twice is all and due to being to close to the wall w/o any durok behind it, started scorching the wall. I paid 75$ for the stove the pipe the chimney and the double/triple? insulated pipe to go through the roof. I feel like i got a good deal and would love to make this work as my propane bill this winter will be around 1000$ and i can go to the mountians and bring home enough wood to last several winters for 300$. Where im at our forest program lets us pay about 10$ a cord and we go harvest the dead trees. I grew up witha fire place but when the parents moved we went propane. now six years after being married im excited to get back to good cheap heat. Also any advice with this stove would be wonderful installation wise or anything you have to offer.
    Thanks in advance!!

    Jacob

    p.s. sorry for the run ons and i hope no one is confused. Also im going to install it this weekend if i can so i look forward to your help.

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  2. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    for starters, when you say , "double wide home , are you referring to a mobile home? if so , you need to makesure that the stove you have is rated for a mobile home , im not thinking it is as there is not adaptation for outside combustion air. also , 18 inches for the stove to combustible wall clearance (unless the unit is equipped with a heat shield) is not nearly enough. more like 30 inches. as for pipe , the pipe you will need to use is "class A 2100 degree rated flue pipe some is triple wall some is insulated double wall , but it must have the class a rating for 2100 degree. inside the structure coming off the stove single wall may be used if pipe has at least 18 inches clearance to combustibles, if closer clearance is needed double wall or shielded pipe will allow to get closer, but at best 6 inches is as close as the piep can be with double wall.

    all this said , i urge you to ensure if you have a mobile home to research further before installing this unit because i feel pretty confident that the unit is NOT approved for mobile home and if so should not be installed.
  3. kjsnooks

    kjsnooks New Member

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    It is a mobile home. What do you mean by adaptor for outside combustion air?? Like I said i dont know a lot about it yet. I do know a friend who has a stove in his mobile home maybe he would have the adaptor. As for rules my county does not have any as far as emissions and such. Like i said i really wana make this work so if i have to get an adaptor of some kind im willing. as for the heat shield it does not have one but that is not to say i cant get one for it. And thanks for posting so quick as i need to make a decision by this weekend i have already had an offer on it for 150$ and if it cant work for me ill let it go (with much sadness)
  4. kjsnooks

    kjsnooks New Member

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    one more thing ill mention. im putting up a nonflamable sheet behind. I cant remember the name but is is mixed with cement and is fire retardant if that makes a difference for the clearance needed. The thought of lining the wall behind in brick has also crossed our mind to reduce the clearance needed.
  5. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    i think your best be is to accept the 100% profit and put it toward a mobile home rated EPA unit , you will get much more out of your wood and you will have a unit that is safe for mobile homes, we make a couple of them and there are several more out there on the market. the outside air thing isnt so much for emmissions per se as it is safety , mobile home approved units are sealed systems and do not draw "house air" were it me , i'd see about turning a quick profit on the stove , although i'd hang on to the pipe if its class a though as its expensive stuff. let me know if i can help you more on requirements for mobile home installations i'd be happy to help
  6. nshif

    nshif New Member

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    I have the same stove in my shop. surrounded by building block on an outside wall. I rarely use it except when Im down there in the winter. I wouldnt install it in my house period. Its a good OLD stove but eats wood faster than a forest fire.
  7. kjsnooks

    kjsnooks New Member

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    cool thanks for the info so far guys. one more question, how can i tell if its class a pipe?

    thanks again

    Jacob
  8. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    First of all We have not established if that fisher was one of the ones manufactured after 1979 .It may not even be listed The ones I have seen have generic NFPA clearances 36" to walls
    I do know that it can't be installed in a Mobile home. It never had provisions of outside air feeds. I don't even know if it is a safe to place it on the floor it weighs near 500 lbs.

    Really there are so many unknowns and so many potential code issues No one here can advise a safe installation even you vent pipe in not identified yet as correct for use.

    I suggest you start a new post that deals with stoves your home size and mobile home installations. I don't think anyone want to advise you or help you make a life threatening mistake.

    I am willing to help you in any other way but this is not a plan I want any part of nor should you
  9. hearthtools

    hearthtools Moderator Emeritus

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    and as far as I know with all Mobil homes you have to use Close Clearance Double wall pipe from the stove to the ceiling.
  10. kjsnooks

    kjsnooks New Member

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    what does the outside air feed do that are so important. not being doubtful but want to make an informed as much as possible decision. When i contacted the county officials and insurance company neither mentioned that they both told me at least 18" from the wall. They are not fire place experts either though. As to the wieght its is definatly not a problem. I had a 125 gallon salt water aquarium on my floor the tank alone weighed 300 lbs then add 200 for the rock i put in plust the 80 gallons of water after the rock and coral and lastly the stand wich was 150 by itself. I have no doubt about the stove as when me and a friend lifted it it was not comparable to the tank full of rock. If heat by the wall is an issue im not opposed to placing double layers of durok all around it and i could look for a heat shield as well. Again not trying to be argumentitive just looking for a cheaper way to heat the house this winter. I dont have the grand i need to buy all the propane it takes, and do not have the money for a new stove, this one cost me 75$ for the stove pipe chimney and all. One more question i need to know, as i will put in a stove even if its not this one (next year i will make more money so i can get ont then), is on the inside of the house where the chimney goes up through the roof do i need anything there or just let the chimney go through. One person i talked to said i needed a box around the pipe another said that is just to cover the hole in the ceiling. I wont have the hole as i have a friend who used to build houses, and he has a tool to cut a cirlce just slightly bigger than the pipe so there will be no gap to speak of.

    thanks for your help i was hesitant to post and join as in the past i have never got answers, this site is awsome about helping.

    thanks
    Jacob
  11. North of 60

    North of 60 Minister of Fire

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    Jacob I left you a message on Do I need a permit thread. Your comments are scaring me. I think you should look up some stove models. EPA ones, Download an install manual to under stand your over your head. Hope someone else can reply to strengthen this. Help includes being safe. Hope a veteran here can explain it better and type faster than I can. Its getting late so helpfully you can get some replies. Every one here means well. Just like you probably do. Good luck.
  12. Gooserider

    Gooserider Mod Emeritus

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    Jacob, the stuff I've been reading makes me think you are wanting to get into contention for a "Darwin Award" - it may be from your lack of knowledge, but there are reasons why every poster in this thread has been advising you against installing this stove... You should NOT install that stove this weekend, instead you should spend it reading some of the past threads on this board, and some of the various "how-to" articles to get a better feel for what you should be doing. Currently it seems like every post you make gives me another reason to cringe at the bad / dangerous ideas you have - I'd address them, but you have so many it's not practical to list them all...

    To start with, mobile homes are built very differently from standard homes, in many ways much lighter, and in ways that make them easier to set on fire. For this reason, a stove that may be reasonably safe in a conventional construction house would NOT be safe in a mobile home. For this reason, current codes REQUIRE that any stove being installed in a mobile home have a specific listing giving a certification that the stove can be safely installed in a mobile home, and listing any additional requirements for making that installation.

    Another aspect is that mobile homes are usually built "tighter" than conventional homes, with less air infiltration - this means that the stove must be DESIGNED to be equipped with an "Outside Air Kit" or "OAK" and installed using it. These kits are stove specific, not something you can retrofit.

    Because mobile homes are lower, there are special requirements on the way the stack is constructed in order to ensure that you have proper draft - one of the requirements for a mobile home listing is that the stove needs to work with a shorter than average chimney.

    Weight is part of it, also the way the heat is put out, the direction the heat is sent in, the clearance requirements, and so on.

    On the plus side, there are benefits to getting a newer mobile home approved stove...

    1. Modern stoves are MUCH more efficient, because of their less polluting design they get more heat out of the wood by burning the smoke you normally send up the chimney. A modern stove will typically burn about 1/3 less wood for the same amount of heat.

    2. Because they are sending less smoke up the chimney, they build up less creosote in the chimney, which means you don't need to clean them as often, and have a lower risk of chimney fires.

    3. Modern stoves tend to have bigger windows in their doors, and airwash systems to keep them clean, so you not only get heat, but you get to watch the fire as well.

    4. Typically stoves that are approved for mobile homes come with (or offer as options) shields and other design features to GREATLY reduce your required clearances, especially if you do PROPERLY designed and built wall protection systems - this can really help get the stove out of the middle of your room.

    5. IIRC, the Fisher stoves put out a huge amount of heat when they were burning - and went through wood in a hurry doing it. I suspect that this would be to big of a stove for your mobile home eve if it were approved. Most mobile home approved stoves are somewhat smaller, and have more appropriate heat outputs.

    You may be able to find a modern stove in a good used deal, but even if not, they aren't that horribly expensive - I believe the smaller Englander models, which are high quality stoves at a very good price, are under a grand for the mobile home approved models.

    Please learn before you burn - so you don't burn UP!

    Gooserider
  13. nshif

    nshif New Member

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    In case jacob is still looking just saw this in my Quad manual and this is for a modern stove

    NOTE: This installation must conform with local codes. In the
    absence of local codes you must comply with the UL1482,
    (UM) 84-HUD and NPFA211 in the U.S.A. and the ULC S627
    and CAN/CSA-B365 Installation Codes in Canada.

    UM 84 HUD deals with mobile home installs.
  14. kjsnooks

    kjsnooks New Member

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    nshif

    im still looking and pouring over everything in can in this site. Where can i look up those codes. I found some information on the NASD site about proper installation with the rules for clearance and chimney height, type of pipe, and type of noncombustable material required.

    And thanks again for your honest responses

    Jacob
  15. backpack09

    backpack09 Minister of Fire

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  16. nshif

    nshif New Member

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    Jacob
    I have that exact stove as I stated earlier but its in a shop building and only used when I am present and compleatly shut down when Im not.
    It is NOT 84 HUD certified and should Not be installed in a mobile home. This thing will put out a ton of heat which is very hard to regulate. Even with NFPA max clearances it will be too close to anything.
    I worked in the mobile home industry for many years and have seen the results of fires in them. With everything being surrounded by metal they act like a giant fire box. Never saw one that wasnt totaly gutted. Sell it now for a profit and get a MH approved stove and install it by the manufs specs and youll live longer.
  17. kjsnooks

    kjsnooks New Member

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    well sounds like ill have to go with a different stove next year then. Thanks for all the info guys!

    Jacob
  18. kjsnooks

    kjsnooks New Member

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    One more thing a friend brought up when i told him about this post so as to no confusion. Its a dbl wide manufactured home on foundation. He was confused about the post saying with all the metal. If this makes a difference please let me know before I sell the stove. I dont have metal in my house except the steel beams in the flooring. No matter what stove i put in hud approved or not im cutting out the sheetrock to replace it with durok then an inch gap then more durok with brick in front. If this sounds ok to do with a hud stove let me know please.

    Jacob
  19. nshif

    nshif New Member

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    Well it really doesnt matter if its metal or not if its a mobile it needs to match 84 HUD, When you find a stove that is MH approved the installation manual will tell you exactly what you need for wall and floor protection as well as venting and outside air.
  20. backpack09

    backpack09 Minister of Fire

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    Clarification on your home.

    A timber framed manufactured home that sits on a concrete foundation or crawl space is NOT a mobile home and should not be fall under such requirements.

    A mobile home (as far as I know) is a home that is NOT on a foundation, and could be "moved" with the help of a big truck and a set of wheels.

    I can be wrong tho...

    Either way, it sounds like you understand where we are coming from. Good luck with stove hunting.... It can be a bear.
  21. kjsnooks

    kjsnooks New Member

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    Backpack09

    Now im really confused lol!

    If my home does not fall under the requirements of a mobile home is this stove safe to install with the proper non combustibles around or under? Im not trying to be stupid, but i do realize i should have researched before i bought. In the end i may have to just find a way to pay for propane and start over :(
  22. Dunadan

    Dunadan New Member

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    Hopefully I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you're planning to install this stove even with what everyone here has posted.

    Yes, I know, in multiple posts you've said you'll just sell it if you need to, but then you throw in a question about what you would need to do IF it were an approved stove or WHEN you get an approved stove.

    Again, hopefully I'm wrong, but if not, as mentioned before, you'll be a finalist in the running for the Darwin award, assuming you're still around.
  23. Gibbonboy

    Gibbonboy New Member

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    Regardless of whether the DW is actually "mobile" or not, the stove is unlisted, correct? If so, it doesn't matter how big the house is, you can't install it anyway. Sucks that you can't burn wood this year, I can really relate to the frustration. I wouldn't want to pay for propane or oil either. Best advice is to find a reasonably-priced stove, either used or new, that is mobile-home approved, whether or not your house is actually a "mobile home". You'll be safer and certainly use less wood. I have a big Fisher sitting in my brother-in-law's garage now, don't know what to do with it other than scrap. Shame, it's actually in good shape, but the design of stoves has evolved light years beyond those "airtight" stoves.

    I put my wood furnace on layaway, really put a crimp on me for a while, but I got to burn wood instead of oil last year, so I ended up saving lots in the long run. Keep your eyes peeled, and let everybody know that you're on the hunt for a woodstove, something will come along.
  24. nshif

    nshif New Member

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    Now this could get confusing,,,,,
    Here in Ca all mobile homes must go on a permanant foundation. as well as " premanufacutured homes. Not sure how that applies to park set ups.
    But if it still has a steel frame under it its a mobile. See if it has a sticker on it (perhaps near the front door or main power panel) and has a HUD approval. if so HUD standards apply.
    Even if you put that thing in its not listed and falls into the NFPA default CTC of I beleive 36" with the depth of the stove at 2' + and a hearth coverage of at least 16" Now 18" from the front thats sticking out into the room over 6'
  25. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    All of the Fischer bear family that I ever saw were UL listed to UL 1482 but they required 36" to 42" rear clearance and 36" on the sides with 16" in front with 16 inches of floor protection on all sides under that listing. That stove should have the UL label on it and back then those labels listed all of the clearance information.

    Of course they weren't listed or approved for manufactured housing.

    It has appeared all along that Jason was gonna install that stove one way or another. The $150 would go a long way toward a used manufactured housing/mobile home approved stove.
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