Alderlea draft issue

[Tone]

Installed the new Alderlea T5 yesterday and it looks really nice. Too bad it isn't burning so well. At first I thought it was poor draft due air leaks in the connector pipe since smoke was coming out of the joints. I sealed them up with furnace cement and no more smoke from the pipe. I can't seem to get a good draft unless the door is open but then smoke pours out through that. Even with the air control all the way to the left (open), it doesn't seem to be getting enough air into the firebox.

The air control works to close off the air even more so I guess that's working okay. What else can I check on the stove to make sure that the stove isn't the problem.

The chimney set up is 4 1/2' of 6" connector pipe to a 6-8" increaser at the ceiling support and about 7' of 8" thru the attic class A Amerivent chimney.

This might be too short or maybe the increase in diameter is slowing down the draft. The old smoke dragon with 8" pipe all through did alright with it. To add a 4' length of 8" galvanized Amerivent chimney to the existing setup is about $300.

For not much more I can probably replace the whole chimney with SS 6" class A.

Any suggestions?

 

[Hogwildz]

Installed the new Alderlea T5 yesterday and it looks really nice. Too bad it isn't burning so well. At first I thought it was poor draft due air leaks in the connector pipe since smoke was coming out of the joints. I sealed them up with furnace cement and no more smoke from the pipe. I can't seem to get a good draft unless the door is open but then smoke pours out through that. Even with the air control all the way to the left (open), it doesn't seem to be getting enough air into the firebox.

The air control works to close off the air even more so I guess that's working okay. What else can I check on the stove to make sure that the stove isn't the problem.

The chimney set up is 4 1/2' of 6" connector pipe to a 6-8" increaser at the ceiling support and about 7' of 8" thru the attic class A Amerivent chimney.

This might be too short or maybe the increase in diameter is slowing down the draft. The old smoke dragon with 8" pipe all through did alright with it. To add a 4' length of 8" galvanized Amerivent chimney to the existing setup is about $300.

For not much more I can probably replace the whole chimney with SS 6" class A.

Any suggestions?

So you have 11-1/2' of chimney? For best performance you need about 15'. Add the fact you went from 6" to 8" (why), you just decreased the draft there.
Too short, get rid of the 8" and go 6" all the way up, add another 4' pc and see how that flows. The old smoke dragon called for 8" pipe I am assuming. The Alerlea calls for 6" does it not? Do you have a damper in the pipe that might be closed? Is the air intake on the back unobstructed?

 

[Corey]

You're definitely on to something, Hog. Plus, looking at the weather, Long Island has been having lows in the 30-40F range, so the draft would definitely improve with cooler and drier air. I've got 13' coming out of ol' smoky and I can definitely tell an improvement when the cooler temps come in. But, usually when the temps are in the 30-40 range, it's time to light one fire, let it burn out, then come back hours later and light another - so there isn't a lot of door flapping anyway.

 

[Hogwildz]

I have the opposite problem, close to 30' of chimney and the sucker drafts too good. Better too good than not good enough though. Its been getting fairly cold here along the mountain. Had snow flurrys yesterday. At 30-40's he should have some kind of decent draft. Now in the 50's I could see this problem.

 

[webbie]

Definitely a draft problem. Replacing and extending sounds like the best bet for the money since you will have a new chimney instead of an old one.

 

[Hogwildz]

And Craig has a nice Extend a Flue for ya

 

[Tone]

The salesman said the 8" chimney would be fine. It seems I'll have to replace and lengthen. I don't see anything obstructing the airway, although a don't really know what to look for. There wasn't anything in the exit hole and I can't see very much from inside the firebox.

When switching to 6" chimney, what's the best way to downsize the hole in the roof?

Thanks

 

[jtp10181]

You may be able to keep the same roof flashing and just get an over-sized storm collar, otherwise just get a 6" roof flashing and it should cover the old hole unless someone went nuts with a sawzall.

 

[webbie]

The salesman said the 8" chimney would be fine. It seems I'll have to replace and lengthen. I don't see anything obstructing the airway, although a don't really know what to look for. There wasn't anything in the exit hole and I can't see very much from inside the firebox.

When switching to 6" chimney, what's the best way to downsize the hole in the roof?

Thanks

I would not blame the salesperson too much - if your downdraft defiant worked, it would be normal to assume that an updraft stove (PE is not known for draft problems) would work.

As far as the hole, if your existing flashing is in good shape, you might be able to graft the new one onto it...and thereby avoid some work. Rivets and butyl should do a heck of a job.

 

[elkimmeg]

Sometimes the easy solution is not advised. Get a new boot flange with the pipe and weave it into your shingles correctly this caulking advice may work but down the line is it worth loosing your ceiling when it leaks or you have a full snow load on the roof an6 it leaks? Use the entire new kit system don't try to half ask it. You will be better in the long run

What about adding a section up there first to see if that solves your problem? Then you do not have to deal with flashing support boxes and filling in around holes?

 

[begreen]

I'm with Elk here. First thing I would try is adding 3 ft of pipe to see if that made a big difference. Ask the dealer if they have a used or dented section that they would let you try out before buying.

 

[Tone]

The existing chimney is Amerivent brand. The only dealer I can find is Woodmanspartsplus.com. A three foot section of galvanized 8" class A pipe is over $300 with the shipping. The original chimney has some rust on it and isn't new. I'd hate to put good money into bad and not be sure it's going to solve the problem.

Do you think that I can stick a piece of 8" stove pipe up there just to see if it fixes the situation?

If I do go with a new chimney, Dura Vent is available at Home Depot and Super Vent at Lowes and is cheaper at about $400 for the through the ceiling kit and 11' of pipe. I have heat fab 22g single wall stove pipe. I read somewhere that the Duravent is the only chimney that will withstand a chimney fire without needing replacement. Is it really better and worth the extra money?

 

[begreen]

Ouch, ok, plan B. If the roof is safe to work on, then I'd probably try a 3-4' length of 8" of black stove pipe (or galvanized, whatever is least). When it's clear and calm outside, remove the flue cap, jam the crimped end of the test pipe in the flue for a temporary test. Be sure it's a solid fit, you don't want it to fall out while testing. Then fire up the stove. If the flue draws a lot better, then you can make an informed decision for a permanent solution. Just be sure to let the stove cool down, remove the pipe and replace the cap after the test is done.

As far as replacement pipe, if you are keeping the flue short, I think you'll want double wall instead of single wall on the inside of the house. The reason is to keep the interior of the flue as hot as possible for better draft. But I would still plan on putting in at least the minimum required length of flue per the stove manual.

 

[webbie]

The existing chimney is Amerivent brand. The only dealer I can find is Woodmanspartsplus.com. A three foot section of galvanized 8" class A pipe is over $300 with the shipping. The original chimney has some rust on it and isn't new. I'd hate to put good money into bad and not be sure it's going to solve the problem.

Do you think that I can stick a piece of 8" stove pipe up there just to see if it fixes the situation?

If I do go with a new chimney, Dura Vent is available at Home Depot and Super Vent at Lowes and is cheaper at about $400 for the through the ceiling kit and 11' of pipe. I have heat fab 22g single wall stove pipe. I read somewhere that the Duravent is the only chimney that will withstand a chimney fire without needing replacement. Is it really better and worth the extra money?

You could check with Amerivent - they probably sell to some plumbing and heating showrooms near you and it might be much less. Also, as BG says....on a relatively warm (over 45) day, you could stick a piece of 3 or 4 foot single wall galv up there for a few hours and see if it makes a big dif.

 

[Todd]

What about sliding a piece of 6" flex liner down the 8" chimney?

 

[Tone]

I'm going to try the stove pipe test tomorrow. I thought about the liner option too, but I think that I still need more height on the existing chimney. I heard somewhere (here?) at least 15' of pipe from the stove is needed. Also I don't know how many more years the old chimney has left. It's galvanized not stainless and has some rust.

I've been checking some prices. ventingpipe.com is where I bought the stovepipe. They were much cheaper than the stove dealer. The prices I stated above for Lowe's above are about half of what ventingpipe.com charges. I wonder if the stuff is old stock and the prices haven't been updated. $66.70 per 3' section of 6" SS class A pipe seems like a bargain unless there is something I'm missing.

Thanks everyone

 

[Hogwildz]

What about sliding a piece of 6" flex liner down the 8" chimney?

Not a bad idea, but he still won't get the height needed if it is indeed a height issue. 4 foot or so of flex sticking out the top would look like something from cat in the hat in whoville

 

[begreen]

Keep us posted.

FYI - from the T5 manual - Minimum system height is 15 feet (4.6 m) (measured from base of appliance).

 

[Tone]

So my daughter happened to find two 2' sections of chimney for the existing setup in the attic while looking for Christmas stuff. I connected them and the draft has definitely improved. Getting a fire still isn't easy but is doable without too much smoke coming in.

While reviewing the manual, there is mention of removing a 4" knockout from the ash box assembly if using room air combustion. This is a little note that I didn't notice earlier. Anyway I don't see any knockout and there aren't any diagrams or additional instructions.

Anyone know something about this?

 

[Gunner]

may be diff on the alderleas but the steel freestanders the kockout is in the back left corner...can be seen in Roospikes film loop(pic 5+6)
http://www.filmloop.com/cgi-bin/bv/.../BwhZTKqKJkmn4Tw4Lsq3R&flash=1&extAds=1&px=FL

 

[Tone]

I found the knockout. Its on the bottom in the back of the ash pan. I'm not sure why it doesn't come already knocked out since it seems to have to be removed for both outside and inside air setups. It's not going to be easy to knock it out now since there is only a few inches between it and the hearth. I'm thinking maybe a small car jack will do it.

 

[Tone]

The knockout is out and everything is working fine.

Thanks for all the help.

The stack coming out of the roof in the front of my house really does look like "whoville" or worse getto!

I'll post pics tomorrow of the beautiful stove and the butt ugly chimney.

 

[Hogwildz]

HAHAHA Congrats man. As long as its safe & working properly, who cares how it looks. Whoville, lmao, I have this picture in my head of a flex liner about 10' out of the top and all twisted and curved

Timmy said Jimmy
look up at that roof.
Out of the chimney
twirly, twisty & whirling.
That looks kind of funny
boy what a goof.

 

[Tone]

This is the ugly but functional stack.
I saw chimney paint on a web site but it said it was for stainless steel chimneys. Anyone know if it will work on galvanized?

 

[Gooserider]

Looks functional to me, but I think you might want to put a set of guy wires or braces on it. I'm not sure just what the specs are on the height for them, but I think you are at the point where they'd be a good idea.

Gooserider