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Blaze King Ashford is up and running!

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by webby3650, Oct 16, 2013.

  1. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    How loud are the blowers for the BK stoves? Specifically the Princess insert.

    My only experience is with the 30 blower and that bastard seems to be loud even on low. No way would that work in the kitchen.

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  2. jharkin

    jharkin Minister of Fire

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    Having disassembled and reassembled a vc, I can say the castings are not delicate by any means. They may be temperamental to operate but they are not lightweights.... Defiant is over 500lb...
  3. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    I think he meant the design gave the stoves a delicate look.
    jharkin and Joful like this.
  4. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    I didn't think it was noisy. I have never been a fan of blowers, and it didn't bother me. It was never on high though, no need for it. The blowers on the Princess Insert aren't any noisier. I have had a few that rattled, after a little adjustment it went away. The blowers on the PI mount in the left side shroud. They are easily accessible, mounted on a single rubber mounted platform and aren't visible at all. That's a plus!
  5. aansorge

    aansorge Minister of Fire

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    I haven't needed the blower yet on the king. It is keeping my whole house in the 70's and 80's as is but it still only getting down into the 20s so far. It gets a whole lot colder in Minnesota so it's good to hear that the fan seems to really up its output.
  6. aansorge

    aansorge Minister of Fire

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    On thing on the kings blowers....at least on my model, high isn't really loud, but low ain't exactly quiet. I may put a rheostat on mine someday.
  7. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    It comes with a rheostat, do you mean a snap disk?

    Low was nearly silent I thought. I might be comparing it to other units though.
  8. aansorge

    aansorge Minister of Fire

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    It does have a rheostat, but the difference between low and high on mine is not huge. Maybe I have a problem? I did buy it used. My lopi fan would go all the way down to zero if you wanted it to.
  9. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Sounds like you have an issue, it should be a huge difference between high and low.
  10. HotCoals

    HotCoals Minister of Fire

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    Where I'm at it is really rare for me to run the blowers.
    If we were away for a few days I might use them to get the house temp back up.
    That all said they can make your stove actually more efficient by removing heat from the steel so more heat can readily replace that heat.
    See my sig. You won't burn more wood by using them either.
    BrowningBAR and webby3650 like this.
  11. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    I couldn't agree more! :cool:
  12. BKInsert

    BKInsert Member

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    The princes insert blower is not loud at all at lower speeds, I am not sure how sensitive you are to the blower noise, but I can tell you that the blower on the quadrafire insert we had, the 3100i, was louder. The Quadrafire had a standard blade fan where the BK I believe has a different type fan so most likely this is why it is not as loud. I can watch TV without the need to increase the volume due to the fan noise. I can definitely hear it when I concentrate on the noise but otherwise it is not a problem and no one ever complains about it.
  13. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    Interesting. Not sure how sensitive I am to noise, but the 30 blower sounds like a damn hairdryer. On low I have to increase the volume on the TV. On high, the TV has to be screaming.

    Good to hear the BK on low is hardly noticeable.
  14. dznam

    dznam Member

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    See the EPA efficiency, below - nearly identical for the King and the PH. Point being that there's almost no discernable difference in efficiency. Assuming that this efficiency is similar (for both stoves) over the useful output range of the PH, the stoves will use almost the same amount of wood to produce those BTUs. Obviously, the larger firebox of the King will allow proportionately longer burns at those BTU output levels, but burn about the same amount of wood per hour at the same BTU output level. The King can be throttled down below the rate at which the PH can burn (lower consumption rate per hour) and that's a valuable attribute for many burners. The PH's looks, soapstone radiation, customer service and quality ash drawer system are valuable attributes for many burners. To each his own.

    I'm guessing that the Ashford efficiency is actually less than the King's and therefore is probably LESS efficient than the PH, but if that's not true, show us. In any case, for practical purposes, the efficiency of the three stoves below is comparable in my view. They're both great stoves. And yes, I burned a King for a while... and will replace my Jotul 12 with an Ashford when it's time.

    Blaze King's King 1107
    Blaze King's King 1107 catalytic stove recently became the most efficient wood stove on the EPA list with an astonishing 82% reported efficiency, nudging out the Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid by 1%. As more non-cat stoves appear on the EPA list, we will also feature the most efficient non-cat.More information.
    [​IMG]
    September 2012
    Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid
    [​IMG]
    The Woodstock Soapstone Progress Hybrid is the highest efficiency wood stove listed by the EPA at 81%. The Progress is a true hybrid because it combines a catalytic combustor with a secondary combustion system. Combining these two different systems in one wood stove captures a clean and efficient burn throughout the entire burn range.

    A similar hybrid stove, the Cape Cod made by Travis Industries, is listed by the EPA at 80.3%. We featured this stove in our March 2011 newsletter. If you want a very high efficiency stove that saves lots of fuel and have long burn times, these stoves are excellent choices. As cleaner and/or more efficient appear on the EPA stove list, we will feature them here and on our website. More information.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013
  15. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    These Efficiency ratings are a racket! Non of us have test labs in our house and will never see any difference in a stove that burns at 82% or one that burns at 81%! There are so many different ways that a manufacturer uses to get these numbers and so many variables!
    I can tell you this, my Blaze King Ashford has a smaller firebox than my Cape Cod and if I'm running them both, I will pass the Ashford 3 times with a load of wood for the Cod. All the while the Ashford is not only heating more of my house, it's doing it on that 1st load of wood! I can't put an efficiency number on that, but 3 to 1 doesn't look to good for the Cape Cod!
  16. aansorge

    aansorge Minister of Fire

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    One thing a King model has on everybody is this: every time you load a load, efficiency goes way down for about 45 minutes as you try to get going again. Nobody seems to talk about this very much and I think it is about time people recognize the efficiency of a stove is more than about one load of wood, it should be thought of in terms of days. Sure several stoves are equaling the Blaze king efficiency #'s but combine this with the size of the King and the slow and low and I think that over a weeks time it begins to separate itself from the pack.
    HotCoals and webby3650 like this.
  17. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    That's right, a cat stove is it's most efficient on a medium to low setting on the air control. They typically only spend a very short time on high, in fact only 20% on average. So, 80% of time cat stoves are running at their best. Non-cats are their most efficient on med to high and this only happens 20% of time, so 80% of time they aren't doing so good! To my knowledge, there isn't a non-cat stove on the market that actually gives an efficiency rating. If you look at the fine print on the EPA hang tag it will say not tested for efficiency. This means, although they passed the test, the numbers came in lower than the default number that is allowed by the EPA. Blaze King, Woodstock and the Lopi Cape Cod are the only stoves that are publishing actual efficiency ratings to the best of my knowledge.
    Everyone will have to eventually, which means they will need a cat to get this done!:cool:
  18. dznam

    dznam Member

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    The EPA testing protocol is a LOT less capricious than you are insinuating:

    The only way the EPA can test emissions fairly is to burn the same load of fuel in all tests, relative to the size of the firebox being tested (the test loads must be the same size, same weight, same moisture content). To accomplish this, they use milled 2x4's and 4x4's of C-grade Pine, air-dried to 19% - 25% moisture content and nailed together with 3/4" x 1.5" spacers in exactly the same size and shape. These softwood "charges" contain far more airspace, far less wood fiber and far less heat value than a full load of conventional hardwood. Further, the EPA protocol requires testing with the draft control of the stove adjusted to its lowest (smokiest) setting, which is also its lowest BTU output setting. Thus, the heat output recorded by the EPA lab during emissions testing is far lower than could be achieved with a full load of hardwood and a more open draft control (hence the disclaimer). This is true of all woodstoves, but especially evident in woodstoves with larger fireboxes, where the EPA "charge" can leave LOTS of space that could be packed with wood. (Copied from Chimney Sweep Online)

    From Blaze King's own website (admittedly, self serving):

    The true efficiency for a wood stove is the measured efficiency number published by the US EPA on its web site. When comparing efficiencies of different brands you should always compare the EPA measured efficiency. This number is a true reading of how your stove performs in the real world. (From BK website)



    Of course none of us have labs in our houses- that statement is what is called a "red-herring" - it has nothing to do with whether a stove is efficient or not and presents no information to support the discussion of efficiency. The point is that the test represents the only quantitative comparison available and whether you were aware of it or not, it's done under reasonably controlled circumstances to provide some kind of useful, unbiased comparison of efficiency. Without it, we only have seat-of -the pants observations which are made under TRUELY uncontrolled circumstances! I'm not saying that a single burner's seat-of-the-pants observation is without merit - but it's just an N=1 piece of data. Personally, I have a hard time believing that the Cod has only 33% of the efficiency of the Ashford. That would put the Cod at 27% efficiency- not a believable number. Obviously, the testing does not cover all conceivable types of firewood and all burn rates, so it is certainly not the end-all and be-all, but represents a the only reasonable (albeit limited) , quantitative basis on which to judge efficiency.

    I'm glad you agree that 82% vs 81% vs 80% is not differentiable - my point exactly if you read my post.
  19. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    Your big words and long posts don't scare me!;lol
    Keep in mind that you joined a thread about the performance of a Blaze King Ashford.
    BrowningBAR likes this.
  20. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    Ooooohhh boy....
  21. alforit

    alforit Feeling the Heat

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    dznam,

    The Ashford and Cape Cod comparison by Webby is what this website is partly here for . So we can hear real world experiences from woodstove users and make a decision based on comparison and data.. What he is telling you is correct about the Ashford burning longer at its highest efficiency than the Cape Cods highest efficiency .........( The Ashford can burn much longer on its low setting ,which is its highest efficiency range for a much longer time than the Cape Cod can on med/high setting, which is its highest efficiency range. That is a FACT. And is a big difference between cat stoves and secondary burn tube stoves.
    The EPA testing and numbers are just a vague reference point and guideline for consumers... And are based on a SHORT BURN TEST WINDOW....Not the full range of the burn of a full load of wood in a stove........ You seem to be lost in numbers and scientific data research..............There is nothing wrong with that as long as you balance it with real world experience and the variables they present.
    You would be better served to read others experiences and do your own testing.

    Allan
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013
    PapaDave and webby3650 like this.
  22. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    I agree that the efficiency of the stoves in the last few posts are all top of their class and all the same for all intents and purposes. It is fun to poke the woodstock fanboy club with the fact that they are not the most efficient but all are excellent.

    Assuming wood consumption and efficiency is the same is a fine concept and most useful here. So then we come back to real things that matter such as firebox size, burn time, installation clearances, and burn rate flexibility. BK is vastly superior on all of these. Aesthetics is a personal thing and I can't hold that choice against anyone.

    Oh and about customer service... While I have heard that WS is quite good, what I don't see is a WS representative on this site answering questions and contributing. I do see a BK VP speaking up and offering help which many have taken him up on and been very happy. I am not willing to give the edge on CS to WS but I will again say that they are for all intents and purposes, the same. Englander also has representation here and has been responsive.
    webby3650 likes this.
  23. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    He is a wealth of knowledge and a great guy! I'm glad to call him a friend!
  24. Joful

    Joful Minister of Fire

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    I think Woodstock, BK, and Englander all set a very high mark on customer service. I wish I could say the same for others, especially Jotul.

    Before anyone goes claiming that Woodstock doesn't have representation here, please remember they have rideau and Backwoods.
  25. Machria

    Machria Minister of Fire

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    Real life: I know of 2 people who have returned or swapped their Wodstock stoves in after being used for a full season, free of charge, no questions asked. I know of 1 BK stove owner who was not satisfied with his stove as it did not come anywhere close to the performance #'s publisehd, BK and/or the dealer would not take it back.

    Somebody say "Customer Service"?

    Now back to the Ashford. Or better yet, the Chinnook, same firebox right? I actually like the look of the Chinook.

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