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Building the MS460: Epilogue - The 2nd Saw

Post in 'The Gear' started by MasterMech, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Y'all were wondering what I was going to do with the 2nd MS460, aka. that pile of parts in the corner of my shop...

    Well here goes. Since used top-ends for the 046/MS460 are going for stupid money on ebay (isn't everything? :p ) I decided to do this up with an aftermarket kit.

    DSC04110.JPG

    Here's what you get in the kit. There was another kit on ebay that gives you even more for less $$ but I was impatient and didn't want to wait for it to ship from Hong Kong.

    DSC04111.JPG

    The gasket/seal kit. Included the reflector foil for behind the muffler, nice touch. The exahust gasket is much thicker and a different material than OEM. The crank seals are double lip seals like the OEM parts. The case gasket is thinner than OEM and as I will show later, not an "exact" fit.

    DSC04112.JPG DSC04113.JPG

    The kit included a dual-port muffler, I really like this one, it has a silencer box in the middle which my OEM Oz muffler does not, so this one should be quieter. It might have an effect on power, but my guess is it will be minimal. Considering you could buy this for $30 separately, it really is a nice piece.

    DSC04123.JPG DSC04124.JPG

    The wrist pin is probably the most obviously different part in the kit. However it fit quite nicely in the piston's bore with the bearing (also included)

    I guess I didn't get a photo of the piston, but other than being 54mm diameter, it looked very close to OEM.

    DSC04126.JPG

    The kit also includes a new decompression valve.


    DSC04114.JPG

    I compared the included Torch spark plug with the NGK and Bosch OEM replacements. The ceramic insulator (external) is a bit longer than the OEM plugs but seemed ok otherwise.

    DSC04125.JPG

    What the heck did they think I was going to do with that? ;lol
    Leftyinthewoods and smokinj like this.

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  2. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    DSC04115.JPG DSC04116.JPG
    Ah yes, the cylinder! Casting quality looks superb although the intake port looks to be off kilter a bit from the OEM jug on the right. The exhaust port is noticeably smaller too.​
    DSC04120.JPG DSC04121.JPG
    The left shot is my index finger in the exhaust port as far as it will go using the old OEM cylinder. The right pic shows the same "test" with the new aftermarket cylinder. Just looking at it, the transfer ports appeared to be a bit smaller on the aftermarket cylinder as well.​
    DSC04117.JPG DSC04118.JPG
    Just checking the cylinder bores to show the new cylinder (left) is a 54mm part and the one on the right is the stock 52mm. I know, this is not an accurate measurement but for comparison purposes, it's good enough. :p
    DSC04122.JPG
    So what did I do with the hole in the crankcase wall? Yup, JB Weld. Came out pretty clean.​
  3. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    What are you lookin to do with this one? Sell it also? If so, a Hearth deal? Or is it gonna hit FleaBay?

    This is my subscription. I loved the detail of your last thread (Full OEM). Looking forward to the Aftermarket model ;)
  4. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    DSC04127.JPG DSC04128.JPG DSC04129.JPG

    As you can see, the case gasket stuck out from the case quite a bit. I trimmed the bits where the cylinder base gasket goes and wound up trimming even more from the top of the case where the reflector foil goes under the muffler.

    DSC04131.JPG

    The piston actually bottoms out about 1mm or so (just going by feel) under the bottom edge of the exhaust port. Makes me wonder if the exhaust port height can be increased by grinding the bottom edge a bit. Or perhaps removing the cylinder base gasket to bump compression a bit.... >>

    DSC04132.JPG

    And there's the long-block assembled. The saw is a bit further along than that now. I will take some more pics once I get it buttoned up but this ain't gonna be a detailed build thread like the original Building The MS460 thread was. Short and sweet to find out if these cheap aftermarket parts are worth buying/using or not.

    One thing I noticed is that the crank seals are very tight compared to the OEM parts. You can feel them drag on the shaft as you turn the engine over. Time will tell if they break in or self destruct!
    smokinj likes this.
  5. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    This one I'd have 2nd thoughts about eBaying just because of the JB weld. No doubt in my mind that the patch is good but you never know about some eBay buyers.....

    If somebody was OK with what was done, and really wanted it, then I might be willing to sell it. Or it could become my personal toy to hot rod and play around with. ::-)
  6. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Im sure a few of us would hash it out with that saw.....

    Me included ;)
  7. Boog

    Boog Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    592
    Loc:
    NE Ohio
    As usual, really nice work there MM. I'd hotrod that one up and run the snot out of it. I don't know about you, but the saws I've done the most work on are the ones that I like to run the best. My "better/newer" saws are all in storage in the basement while my rebuilds/upgrades are getting all the work. Don't be afraid to by stuff from Hong Kong, Dex and I have and it gets here quick, just over 2 weeks for me. Also recently ordered Caber rings from Greece from a vendor one of our NW experts told me about. Incredibly cheap price/shipping and they were here in about 10 days. Just ordered a second set for another saw.
    DexterDay likes this.
  8. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    I'm not afraid to order from Hong Kong but in 2 weeks I'm going to be drowning in a sea of lawn tractors as the season heats up here. Time was of the essence and this kit made it here in 3 days from FL.
    Boog likes this.
  9. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Time for me to get the Dixie Chopper out and get it serviced and ready for another year of Good Times. Tru-Green came last week.for the 1st time this year, so you know its getting close.

    By April 1st last year, I had already cut once and "Plugged" my yard (aerator) and the Ornamental Pear tree were in Full Bloom!
  10. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Yeah, things are proceeding bit slower this year but after next week the weather should let up on us some. But my phone is already ringing off the hook. ::-)
  11. basod

    basod Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    937
    Loc:
    Mount Cheaha Alabama
    How much do you figure will be invested in this project?
  12. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    What kind of answer did you have in mind? ;)

    Between the two saws I could tally up the costs and make one more $$ than the other, even them out, take a loss one and make $$ on the other, etc and so forth.

    I have roughly $600 into both saws but have yet to buy a bar & chain for either one of them. Probably will wind up being about $750 into the pair when I have bought them their own cutting hardware.
  13. basod

    basod Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    937
    Loc:
    Mount Cheaha Alabama
    Sounds fair they seem to be going in the 7bill range.

    I was curious how you happened upon the donors so cheap. Small engine repair sticker shock client?
  14. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    It's amazing what an F550 will do to the value of a saw. ;lol

    The first was a freebie donated by another shop. The 2nd was an ebay deal.
  15. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    Sneak Peek! Here's what the saw looks like now...

    DSC04133.JPG DSC04134.JPG
    Nixon, smokinj and DexterDay like this.
  16. Well I'd break down 475/125.

    I'd bail you out of this saw for 150 :)
    DexterDay likes this.
  17. Freeheat

    Freeheat Minister of Fire

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    West of Cleveland
    Looking good mm
    MasterMech likes this.
  18. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Anderson, Indiana
    MasterMech likes this.
  19. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    You're about a week too late. ;lol
  20. nate379

    nate379 Guest

    Lawn Tractors? I was snowblowing driveways yesterday and this mornign!

    I put one of the dual port mufflers on my saw and I wish there was something inside the thing cause it's pretty darn loud! Myself I don't really care, I wear PPE, but for everyone else that's within a few miles of me cutting, I'm sure they will be loving me!
    Boog likes this.
  21. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    It been snowing here this week too Nate, but warm enough to melt quickly. Possible snow in the forecast for tomorrow night (very little) and then looks to be clear from then on. Pre-season service season for lawn equipment is on tho!
  22. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Messages:
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    Anderson, Indiana

    Looks like 10 inchs here tonight and headed east.
  23. nate379

    nate379 Guest

    I see. Usually is not till mid June when the grass has grown enough to need cutting out here!

  24. MasterMech

    MasterMech Guest

    OK so a quick update for everybody. The saw is a runner, sort of. I'm not happy with the way it's running. I think the carburetor is losing it's adjustment since the limiter tabs have been tampered with and there are no springs on the needles so nothing to keep them from vibrating in or out. I can get it running great and then after a couple minutes it's all wacky again and the needles (particularly the L needle) seem to move on their own. Hard to tell since they are buried in there pretty good with these saws.

    I also had to monkey with the high voltage lead for the ignition system as it wasn't carrying spark to the plug. Got that solved for now, I will most likely wind up replacing that lead in the future.

    After playing with the position of the clutch side crankshaft seal, I was able to get it to seal up perfectly. (Just tapped it in the bearing a bit to give some clearance from the snap ring groove.) The saw holds pressure and vacuum perfectly and pumps out 167 psi on the compression tester. ==c

    The first shortcoming of the aftermarket kit has revealed itself already. The damned decomp valve pops out after every pull! I personally don't need it but sheesh. :rolleyes:

    And I desperately need to get a test log to saw on here. I have virtually no saw-able wood to play with now unless I start cutting splits in half!
  25. You have two 460's and no wood to cut?

    That's just selfish.
    Nixon, DexterDay and MasterMech like this.

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