Cat Stove Classroom

[rogerandbridget]

My personal record for burn time starting with an established coal bed loaded with 4 Home Fire Prest logs, burned down to a point where there were enough coals to re start w/o paper and small sticks......and precious little smoke? 17.5 hours. This belonged to Pacific Energy's Summit insert with the extended burn technology........GO P.E.!!
I believe this is a sign that I need a life!....lol!

 

[certified106]

B) Why do we even NEED one;

Ease of operation. Light the stove in the Fall, fill it up all the way every time, burn it at whatever rate is appropriate for the heat you need. 24+ hour burn cycles make a 7 month continuous burn a lot more convenient.

Huh, that kind of sounds like what I do with my stove. Light it in the fall and burn to what ever setting makes my house comfortable for 24 hours a day untill spring time arrives or it's to hot to burn a stove.

 

[begreen]

My personal record for burn time starting with an established coal bed loaded with 4 Home Fire Prest logs, burned down to a point where there were enough coals to re start w/o paper and small sticks......and precious little smoke? 17.5 hours. This belonged to Pacific Energy's Summit insert with the extended burn technology........GO P.E.!!
I believe this is a sign that I need a life!....lol!

I haven't tried HomeFires in a big stove yet. Sounds like this winter may be time for a revisit.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I believe this is a sign that I need a life!....lol!

You're posting on a forum dedicated to burning wood. You're doomed.

 

[SolarAndWood]

B) Why do we even NEED one;

Ease of operation. Light the stove in the Fall, fill it up all the way every time, burn it at whatever rate is appropriate for the heat you need. 24+ hour burn cycles make a 7 month continuous burn a lot more convenient.

Huh, that kind of sounds like what I do with my stove. Light it in the fall and burn to what ever setting makes my house comfortable for 24 hours a day untill spring time arrives or it's to hot to burn a stove.

You are telling me you put wood in your steel firebox, light it and it keeps your house warm too? I wish my non-cat steel stove did that :coolsmirk: It is a different game. I wouldn't dare load my non-cat to the gills in October yet I load the even bigger cat stove to the top every time. It gets lilt once a year unless we are gone for more than three days and there is never a need to "build a small fire in a bigger stove".

The downside is the non-cat fire is hands down a helluva lot nicer to look at. I would have had an Equinox instead of the BKK in the living room if our sole buying criteria wasn't heating.

 

[certified106]

B) Why do we even NEED one;

Ease of operation. Light the stove in the Fall, fill it up all the way every time, burn it at whatever rate is appropriate for the heat you need. 24+ hour burn cycles make a 7 month continuous burn a lot more convenient.

Huh, that kind of sounds like what I do with my stove. Light it in the fall and burn to what ever setting makes my house comfortable for 24 hours a day untill spring time arrives or it's to hot to burn a stove.

You are telling me you put wood in your steel firebox, light it and it keeps your house warm too? I wish my non-cat steel stove did that :coolsmirk: It is a different game. I wouldn't dare load my non-cat to the gills in October yet I load the even bigger cat stove to the top every time. It gets lilt once a year unless we are gone for more than three days and there is never a need to "build a small fire in a bigger stove".

The downside is the non-cat fire is hands down a helluva lot nicer to look at. I would have had an Equinox instead of the BKK in the living room if our sole buying criteria wasn't heating.

You are kind of missing the point that I was making which is most people on this site would say that they heat there house 24 hours a day 7 days a week with our wood stoves and it isn't exclusive to you. Well either that or a lot of people on here don't realize they have been freezing to death in the winter.

If it makes you any happier and you sleep better at night I will concede the your 3 day burn times in your BK do blow any stove I have ever had out of the water. Just thought that I would add that my sole buying criteria for my stove was to heat my house. You can rest assured that I didn't buy and move a 600lb piece of cast iron and steel into my living room to look at or set plants on.

 

[SolarAndWood]

It's all good certified, my apologies if you thought my intention was to say that non-cats make good planters. There are many ways to get the job done and every one of our situations, experiences and preferences are different.

Incidentally, the T6 was on our short list as well.

 

[daleeper]

You can rest assured that I didn't buy and move a 600lb piece of cast iron and steel into my living room to look at or set plants on.

What amazes me is that some people do.

 

[mhrischuk]

http://www.getdieselpower.com/misc/funny/fedup.gif

 

[begreen]

I build a fire when I need it. It's easy and quick. With our cool summer we've had a few of small fires, even in July. I have no problem lighting up a small fire with a few splits in it. In the fall I kind of enjoy the ritual. By March it starts getting old. But that's what the heatpump is for. It's clean and convenient and I don't even have to dial up the fire. It does that all by itself.

 

[North of 60]

What is a Cat stove anyways?

 

[BrotherBart]

What is a Cat stove anyways?

One of them hard to regulate and expensive to maintain old technology stoves. ;-)

 

[BrowningBAR]

What is a Cat stove anyways?

One of them hard to regulate and expensive to maintain old technology stoves. ;-)

I've got one of those!

 

[North of 60]

What is a Cat stove anyways?

One of them hard to regulate and expensive to maintain old technology stoves. ;-)

OK, Thanks BB. Got the hard facts now so I will stay away from them dang things.
Cheers

 

[stoveguy2esw]

the thing to understand in the "cat V/S non-cat" debate is this;

they are different both have advantages and disadvantages.

cat stoves generally are longer burning, but slower to react. they tend to be more involved in maintaining though not horribly so. their best feature stupidly long burn times. achilles heel, they dont do small fires very well at all. good, they are a steadier performer , usually you dont see runaways or spikes with them as you do with non-cats, bad , they are a bit more involved to operate (ie closing bypass too soo and such) also bad , cats are expensive and they do wear out though with proper use and goob burning habits they will last for upwards of a decade in a lot of cases. i personally burned an englander 24-ac for 13 years without having to replace the cat (i did finally replace it to test out a different type of cat at that point but the applied ceramis cat i had in her was still fully operable with minimal wear)

non cats best point is that you get the ease of operation of a traditional stove with modern efficiency. clean glass, and relatively long burn times as well. down side is they tend to spike unless you stay on top of them when firing or reloading until the coaling stage is well underway. they tend to be less maintenance intensive and they give the option of burning a small fire which a cat stove really doesnt like to do.


all in all, ive been in the business on the manufacturing side for close to 20 years and grew up with englander stoves from one of the first hundred that was built by the company's founder(that i loaded as a child) to the pellet stove i run at home today. ive burned cat stoves , non cats and pre epa units, seen them evolve into todays modern units. ive said this to give some weight to what im saying now; both types of stoves are perfectly fine in what they do, both have good and not as good points. what it boils down to is this one isnt necessarily better than the other, its personal preference to the features of the type.

 

[North of 60]

Ya done good stoveguy. Best explanation yet to date. Have Soupy post this on his fridge will ya.
This should be posted every time this Cat crap comes up.

Cheers.

 

[mhrischuk]

The way I read all of this is you try and choose the one that fits in best with the way you want to burn. I guess that makes the 2 in 1 units the best of both worlds.

 

[BrotherBart]

I guess that makes the 2 in 1 units the best of both worlds.

And the most complicated. And for right now the least known element. KISS has never been more important than in wood stoves.

They may be the greatest thing since sliced bread but we need to know how they work in that cold thing called "the real world". One of VC's problems was always "over engineering" their stoves and trying to have the latest and greatest trick.

Looks like folks like BK and Woodstock have the answer with cat stoves. And a bunch with the non-cats. As to this hybrid stuff, we shall see.

 

[Todd]

the thing to understand in the "cat V/S non-cat" debate is this;

they are different both have advantages and disadvantages.

cat stoves generally are longer burning, but slower to react. they tend to be more involved in maintaining though not horribly so. their best feature stupidly long burn times. achilles heel, they dont do small fires very well at all. good, they are a steadier performer , usually you dont see runaways or spikes with them as you do with non-cats, bad , they are a bit more involved to operate (ie closing bypass too soo and such) also bad , cats are expensive and they do wear out though with proper use and goob burning habits they will last for upwards of a decade in a lot of cases. i personally burned an englander 24-ac for 13 years without having to replace the cat (i did finally replace it to test out a different type of cat at that point but the applied ceramis cat i had in her was still fully operable with minimal wear)

non cats best point is that you get the ease of operation of a traditional stove with modern efficiency. clean glass, and relatively long burn times as well. down side is they tend to spike unless you stay on top of them when firing or reloading until the coaling stage is well underway. they tend to be less maintenance intensive and they give the option of burning a small fire which a cat stove really doesnt like to do.


all in all, ive been in the business on the manufacturing side for close to 20 years and grew up with englander stoves from one of the first hundred that was built by the company's founder(that i loaded as a child) to the pellet stove i run at home today. ive burned cat stoves , non cats and pre epa units, seen them evolve into todays modern units. ive said this to give some weight to what im saying now; both types of stoves are perfectly fine in what they do, both have good and not as good points. what it boils down to is this one isnt necessarily better than the other, its personal preference to the features of the type.

Why do you think cat stoves don't do well with small fires? Small take the chill off fires with 2 or 3 splits burn nice and clean for me. I never had problems with mine but I usually burn at least half or full loads and regulated the heat output with the air setting. I would think non cats would have problems with smaller fires because they need to get that fire box temp up to that magic 1100 degree mark to establish a clean secondary burn?

 

[BrotherBart]

I would think non cats would have problems with smaller fires because they need to get that fire box temp up to that magic 1100 degree mark to establish a clean secondary burn?

Which is a big mis-conception about non-cats. I burn small fires in the 30 all of the time without smoke, creosote or dragons attacking me in my sleep. Everybody is stuck on this thing of having to have a raging fire in a non-cat and taking pics of their secondary burn. It just don't have to work that way.

I suspect that most people's first experience with a non-cat is before they figure out that they need dry wood. That is how it worked with me. The people on this site back in 2005 had me convinced I had to have the firebox looking like the fires of hell or I would crap up my chimney. Fortunately I didn't fall for that too long. Though I did scare the hell out of myself with stove top temps a few times. And started burning for the heat I needed in the house and viola, no creosote, no smoke and my 401K didn't tank.

 

[Danno77]

I would think non cats would have problems with smaller fires because they need to get that fire box temp up to that magic 1100 degree mark to establish a clean secondary burn?

Which is a big mis-conception about non-cats. I burn small fires in the 30 all of the time without smoke, creosote or dragons attacking me in my sleep. Everybody is stuck on this thing of having to have a raging fire in a non-cat and taking pics of their secondary burn. It just don't have to work that way.

I suspect that most people's first experience with a non-cat is before they figure out that they need dry wood. That is how it worked with me. The people on this site back in 2005 had me convinced I had to have the firebox looking like the fires of hell or I would crap up my chimney. Fortunately I didn't fall for that too long. Though I did scare the hell out of myself with stove top temps a few times. And started burning for the heat I needed in the house and viola, no creosote, no smoke and my 401K didn't tank.

This slightly confirms what I've been thinking about small fires in a non-cat. You don't need to have the STOVE hot, you need to have the FIRE hot. Fully engulfed three splits will burn just fine and not put out as much (heat) as a fully engulfed firebox full, right? That small fire also would not be smoking, i'd magine. Not sure how that equates to cat stoves, especially if you don't engage the cat. Also don't know how that equates to getting secondaries going...

 

[BrotherBart]

The secondary air picks up the strays in a small fire without a 'light show'

 

[Todd]

I guess it all depends on how you build a fire. If you throw 3 large wet splits on top of some kindling it's going to smoulder in either stove. Smaller fires burn better with smaller dry splits.

 

[BrotherBart]

The main challenge in my 30 is that I have hellious draft and if I don't pack it tight with a full load and I allow too much air space then it is heading for the moon temp wise. Which may not be a problem with a cat stove. Physics being what it is I can't imagine that but maybe it is.

 

[certified106]

I would think non cats would have problems with smaller fires because they need to get that fire box temp up to that magic 1100 degree mark to establish a clean secondary burn?

Which is a big mis-conception about non-cats. I burn small fires in the 30 all of the time without smoke, creosote or dragons attacking me in my sleep. Everybody is stuck on this thing of having to have a raging fire in a non-cat and taking pics of their secondary burn. It just don't have to work that way.

I suspect that most people's first experience with a non-cat is before they figure out that they need dry wood. That is how it worked with me. The people on this site back in 2005 had me convinced I had to have the firebox looking like the fires of hell or I would crap up my chimney. Fortunately I didn't fall for that too long. Though I did scare the hell out of myself with stove top temps a few times. And started burning for the heat I needed in the house and viola, no creosote, no smoke and my 401K didn't tank.

When I originally started burning in the T6 I was floored by how quickly the secondary combustion started up as I was expecting to have a roaring fire to keep this thing going however I have found the oppostie to be true in fact I can burn 3 split loads that burn cleanly and they wouldn't even have had my cat warmed up in the previous stove.