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Cat vs Non-cat

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Beno, Mar 6, 2007.

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  1. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    No, I think your right. I went through about 4 cord with the Homestead give or take, and it's looking like close to 3 this year with the Fireview. Which is about 1/4 less wood.

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  2. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    So with that said would you agree that a 380° light off temp on a cat is a moot point ?

    I think its one thing to have a stove running along and even being around coal stage and be 300° surface temp but again this whole debate on light off temp isn't really doing anybody any good on real world heating.

    And Todd , there is nothing wrong with trying to get every bit of energy out of your wood and stove. I noticed a big difference on my non-cat stove between 1 year , 2 year and 4 years seasoned wood. Actually i get a lot more secondary burn with 1 and 2 year seasoned wood then i do with 4 years seasoned wood. So whats better ? dont know but thats how the stove changes between woods and it burns about the same amount per year.(with adjustment per the user) The wood is going to make such a big difference on how a stove runs ya just have to learn to let the stove teach you how it wants to run .
  3. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    You won't find it on their site. I asked one of the techs why they use the EPA numbers, and he stated that there too many variables and no standard in cordwood testing so they just went with the EPA number. But he did say the fireview has been tested at 77-80%
  4. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    I agree, Once lit off it burns and temps rise. I'm still learning on this stove and thanks to all you guys for helping.
  5. TMonter

    TMonter Minister of Fire

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    I think the techs were likely overstating efficiency on cordwood. Theoretical efficiency of wood at 18% moisture content and a flue gas temperature of 300 is right at 81% with no unburnt carbon or other losses.
  6. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    I think this statement says it best with cat vs cat , stove vs stove , wood vs wood and user vs user.

    It would be hard as he(( to come up with any set standard per how one stove performs with all the variables.
  7. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Well, I failed. I have to retake Wood Burning 101. It ain't near as cold here as where any of you guys are and by the end of March I will have torched six cords. One for the little dude in the office and the same old five for the house that the old pre-EPA stove burned. Lot warmer in the house than before though.

    As far as cats go, I just feed the one the wife has. And dream of throwing the little a-hole into the non-cat stoves.
  8. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    You know your numbers ,Ya bought a Husqvarna 372XP , your a purity smart feller TMonter , now if you would of only bought a PE Summit we might of had to call you a GOD . ;-P
  9. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Thats why its called a non cat stove. Ya need to find someone with a CAT stove BB.

    *********************** :lol: *************************
  10. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Maybe less wood consumed, but with a much milder beginning to winter. This may be a wash folks. The main advantages of the cat that I can see are longer burn times and evener output over an extended burn time.
  11. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Refresh my memory BG , what cat stoves have longer burn times over non cat stoves? ( not a baited question ) From what i have seen they both have stove models with real long burn times.

    The blaze king is still in question but has a larger than normal fire box but was stated already that even with long burn times the output would be so low when its cold out side you would freeze so thats kinda out the door.
  12. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    im so glad i didnt get sucked into this one. I hope you boys are having a jolly good time :)
  13. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Longer burn times is a relative term here. I was comparing to my non-cat. Not the super PE.
  14. Gunner

    Gunner New Member

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    Ding, Ding, Ding Begreen wins....pack up your stoves boys, the game is over.
  15. TMonter

    TMonter Minister of Fire

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    Well PE doesn't have a dealer close to me here and I got a heck of a deal on my 3100i ($1200). Plus I figured with Quadrafire less than 2 hours away if the stove ever failed warranty service would be easier....

    Nobody's perfect I guess %-P
  16. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    the 3100i rocks.
  17. DriftWood

    DriftWood Minister of Fire

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    OT ; Is it the back claws or the hair balls you like so much. Lots of SPCA out there BB, careful what you say on line. A cat stove could get you into to the court house!
  18. TMonter

    TMonter Minister of Fire

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    So far it's been an excellent stove. Been using it 3 seasons now

    8+ hour burn times on Tamarack, good heat output, good control over the fire. My only complaint is the dirty glass because of no airwash system and the location of the chimney outlet.
  19. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Well is there a court stove that can get you into a cathouse ? ..................

    I know , that was bad. :sick:

    As for no local dealer on Pacific Energy stove , well thats where Tom comes in with the chimney sweep on line web site.

    Shipping cost is there but with his low price it comes out about the same as local , actually it would of been $75. less if i had bought from chimneysweeponline then my local .

    The Summit Wood Fireplace Insert
    http://chimneysweeponline.com/pacsumin.htm

    The Summit Classic Wood Stove
    http://chimneysweeponline.com/pacsumc.htm

    The Summit Wood Stove
    http://chimneysweeponline.com/pacsumm.htm
  20. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Hard to have a lot of dealers when the make so few stoves. Did you know in two weeks at CFM plant in VT they make more stoves than PE year total?

    If one looked at manufactures stove sales in USA PE is not in the top 10. But there is only 18 manufactures

    There are no dealers in MA RI VT CT NH ME NJ PA DE MD VA. WV One is listed in KY
    No wonder so many members can't purchase one. No delers no dealer support and we are talking almost the eniter east coast here quite a bit of population ignored by PE

    So making recomendations to people that live in these states is a bit foolish .particularly without dealer support. Maybe you PE supporters should get real
  21. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Damn Elk ! Calm down. Post the information your yapping about. web link ? Something besides hot air. Show us your list buddy .

    And BTW ole' Elker ...........

    Attached Files:

  22. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    Pacific Energy dealers in:

    Alabama
    Alaska
    Arizona
    Arkansas
    California
    Colorado
    Connecticut
    Delaware
    Florida
    Georgia
    Hawaii
    Idaho
    Illinois
    Indiana
    Iowa
    Kansas
    Kentucky
    Louisiana
    Main
    Maryland
    Massachusetts
    Michigan
    Minnesota
    Mississippi
    Missouri
    Montana
    Nebraska
    Nevada
    New Hampshire
    New Jersey
    New Mexico
    New York
    North Carolina
    North Dakota
    Ohio
    Oklahoma
    Oregon
    Pennsylvania
    Rhoda Island
    South Carolina
    South Dakota
    Tennessee
    Texas
    Utah
    Vermont
    Virginia
    Washington
    West Virginia
    Wisconsin
    and
    Wyoming

    Just to cover your list:
    There is 4 in Vermont , 15 in Main , 3 in Rhoda Island , 3 in Connecticut ,
    18 in New Hampshire , 5 in New Jersey , 14 in Pennsylvania , 3 in Delaware ,3 in Maryland ,
    5 in Virginia , 9 in West Virginia , 11 in Kentucky , 74 in California ,41 in Washington and 20 in Nebraska .............

    I think that about cover your posted list Elk . And thats just the dealers that are listed as the town and there are more then one in some , there are many more on your posted few states mentioned that are not listed.

    Anymore smoke blowing Elk ? NO ............?
  23. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    The last 2 or 3 winters have been just as mild around these parts. So I don't think it made much difference.
  24. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Yes, it's a regional thing. For us, this year was a bit colder, especially Dec/Jan. March has been normal, though we did set a record earlier in the week.
  25. mikeathens

    mikeathens New Member

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    I'll chime in with my opinion - not gospel, by my observations: LESS WOOD USE WITH A CAT STOVE vs. a non-cat. I don't have hard numbers, but think about it: Take two stoves rated at 55,000 Btu/hr. The cat stove typically burns surface temp of 500 F, chimney connector surface 200 F. The non-cat burns surface temp 500 F and chimney surface temp of 450 F. The cat stove is emitting 1.5 g/hr, the non-cat 1.8 g/hr. Looking at the g/hr rating, I agree - not much difference in wood use, maybe a few splits per year. But look at the energy wasted to the atmosphere. BIG DIFFERENCE. Running 24 hr/day for 30 days, assuming equal gas flow rate of 5cfm (I don't know what's normal, so default 5 cfm, seems resonable):

    Non-cat:

    Air R = 53.3 ft lb/lb *R
    Air density @ 100 F (I know I'm off a little, but humor me) = 0.0749 lb/cf

    So...

    (53.3 ft lb/lb *R) X (959.7 *R) X (0.0749 lb/cf) X (5 cfm) = 19156.43 ft lb/min = 24.6 Btu/min

    at a 24 hr/day burn and 30 day/month, that's 1,062,720 Btu/month, or about 0.05 cord of green ash equivalent up the chimney(assume 20 MMBtu/cord green ash).

    Cat:

    Use the same values, except use 659.67 *R (200 F); you have 16.92 Btu/min, or 0.037 cord of green ash equivalent up the chimney per month.

    Looking at a 5 month burn period at full bore, that's .25 cord for non-cat, .185 cord for cat.

    about a 25% difference up the chimney.
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