Catalyst vs non-catalyst (I am new to this amazing forum)

[hotprinter]

My borough has a "cash for clunkers" type program for replacing old woodstoves. I qualify (they give you $1500 toward a new high efficiency woodstove and $1000 toward the chimney). I currently use a 30 year old Osburn and like it but it is not efficient at all. I have narrowed it down to the Harman TL300, Blaze king or Pacific Energy. They all use different technologies and I am not familiar with the pros and cons of each. What would be the advantage of a catalytic converter as on the Blaze king? I live in North Pole Alaska and the winters are harsh so we do need a strong heater. Our house is 2 story 1120 sq ft up and down (2240 total). I really like the harman (I like the top load plus the grill and the large ash box). I like the thermostat on the blaze king and I like the combustor on the Pacific. I would appreciate Anyone with any of those stoves commenting as well as info on the various afterburners. Do they all heat well and burn efficiently, it seems like it is hard to compare numbers as they seem to use different formulas in their brochures. Thanks in advance...

 

[BrowningBAR]

My borough has a "cash for clunkers" type program for replacing old woodstoves. I qualify (they give you $1500 toward a new high efficiency woodstove and $1000 toward the chimney). I currently use a 30 year old Osburn and like it but it is not efficient at all. I have narrowed it down to the Harman TL300, Blaze king or Pacific Energy. They all use different technologies and I am not familiar with the pros and cons of each. What would be the advantage of a catalytic converter as on the Blaze king? I live in North Pole Alaska and the winters are harsh so we do need a strong heater. Our house is 2 story 1120 sq ft up and down (2240 total). I really like the harman (I like the top load plus the grill and the large ash box). I like the thermostat on the blaze king and I like the combustor on the Pacific. I would appreciate Anyone with any of those stoves commenting as well as info on the various afterburners. Do they all heat well and burn efficiently, it seems like it is hard to compare numbers as they seem to use different formulas in their brochures. Thanks in advance...

I'm not a fan of the looks of the Blaze King, but if I lived in Alaska and was spotted a $1500 credit, it'd be hard not to go with the Blaze King if this was my purchase. I own three stoves and I am always tending to a fire, but my winter is short and mild compared to Alaska. If I were in Alaska, I would probably want a stove with a huge mouth, burn flexibility, and long burn times. And the Blaze King fits those requirements like no other stove available.

 

[soupy1957]

For "me" .......I've come to appreciate a good size firebox, so that I can burn a true N/S - E/W fire. Some of the stoves out there are too shallow, and don't permit a true N/S layout.

If I had to do it all over again, (and in 30 years, I will), I'd buy a stove with side loading doors, plenty of interior burn room (as stated before) and I MIGHT even consider soapstone sides, (although I understand that they are slow to heat up).

I hear folks in here talk favorably about Cat stoves, and I won't say I don't advise them, but if it was me..........I wouldn't buy one. Just because it's one more "thing" to go wrong, or have to fix and clean.

Spending some additional $$$$'s on a fan system would be a plus for me as well, so that I do everything I can to move the heat around the house. I get fair flow, but not as good as I would like. I have to leave the blower from my forced hot air system, running a long time, to balance things out. It's not the expense of the running of the blower that's a hassle...........it's just the low drone, constantly in the background.


-Soupy1957

 

[raybonz]

For "me" .......I've come to appreciate a good size firebox, so that I can burn a true N/S - E/W fire. Some of the stoves out there are too shallow, and don't permit a true N/S layout.

If I had to do it all over again, (and in 30 years, I will), I'd buy a stove with side loading doors, plenty of interior burn room (as stated before) and I MIGHT even consider soapstone sides, (although I understand that they are slow to heat up).

I hear folks in here talk favorably about Cat stoves, and I won't say I don't advise them, but if it was me..........I wouldn't buy one. Just because it's one more "thing" to go wrong, or have to fix and clean.

Spending some additional $$$$'s on a fan system would be a plus for me as well, so that I do everything I can to move the heat around the house. I get fair flow, but not as good as I would like. I have to leave the blower from my forced hot air system, running a long time, to balance things out. It's not the expense of the running of the blower that's a hassle...........it's just the low drone, constantly in the background.


-Soupy1957

Hi Soupy,
Cat stoves are easy to maintain at least in mine it is.. On this stove I simply lift off the cook top and the cat sits right there.. I vacuum it with a vacuum cleaner with the brush attachment maybe 2 times a year and it takes 5 mins total with no tools required.. The cat lasts many years and last time I paid $135.00 for a Condar at the local stove dealer.. In my opinion the cat is the simplest part of the stove and not one bit complicated... Maybe on some stoves it's a more complex/expensive affair but I am sure we'll get more feedback on your remark..

Ray

 

[soupy1957]

Ray,
I realize that those who HAVE "Cat" stoves like them for the most part. I tried to not "slam" anyone who owns one. I am personally not convinced however, that having one, makes my wood burning simpler. It is (to me) just another piece that can go bad, and need replacement or repair. For me, "less" is better. That's all.
-Steve

 

[defiant3]

I've made a small fortune over the years servicing catalytic stoves. I myself have a P.E. Vista I've been happy with for 5 years. It's simple , efficient, durable. I spend too much time on other people's gear to want to go home and fix my own. I'm familiar with Harmon, good stove. Still, why have moving parts at all? Top load is nice, but trouble free burning and a good night's sleep are better. You are not in the recreational burning catagory, I guess. Consider going with the sure thing.
I've also got an old V.C. defiant in the house that I love, sounds like you're moving on from that kind of thing though. Good luck, and Happy Heating!!

 

[SolarAndWood]

If I were in Alaska, I would probably want a stove with a huge mouth, burn flexibility, and long burn times. And the Blaze King fits those requirements like no other stove available.

That is the same conclusion I came to. Burn flexibility is huge. The stove burns equally well low or high which means you can always load the stove all the way up and let the tstat do its thing whether it is September or January.

 

[leeave96]

My borough has a "cash for clunkers" type program for replacing old woodstoves. I qualify (they give you $1500 toward a new high efficiency woodstove and $1000 toward the chimney). I currently use a 30 year old Osburn and like it but it is not efficient at all. I have narrowed it down to the Harman TL300, Blaze king or Pacific Energy. They all use different technologies and I am not familiar with the pros and cons of each. What would be the advantage of a catalytic converter as on the Blaze king? I live in North Pole Alaska and the winters are harsh so we do need a strong heater. Our house is 2 story 1120 sq ft up and down (2240 total). I really like the harman (I like the top load plus the grill and the large ash box). I like the thermostat on the blaze king and I like the combustor on the Pacific. I would appreciate Anyone with any of those stoves commenting as well as info on the various afterburners. Do they all heat well and burn efficiently, it seems like it is hard to compare numbers as they seem to use different formulas in their brochures. Thanks in advance...

I'm not a fan of the looks of the Blaze King, but if I lived in Alaska and was spotted a $1500 credit, it'd be hard not to go with the Blaze King if this was my purchase. I own three stoves and I am always tending to a fire, but my winter is short and mild compared to Alaska. If I were in Alaska, I would probably want a stove with a huge mouth, burn flexibility, and long burn times. And the Blaze King fits those requirements like no other stove available.

+1

Also, with the cat you can load that huge Blaze King firebox and have a LONG clean lower temperature burn when the temps warm-up a bit.

As to the cat combuster, piece of cake to operate.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[Adios Pantalones]

It's my understanding that the strength of the Cat is that it allows lower, longer burns. That's particularly valuable down south here, maybe not your primary concern at absolute zero temperatures there.

 

[raybonz]

Ray,
I realize that those who HAVE "Cat" stoves like them for the most part. I tried to not "slam" anyone who owns one. I am personally not convinced however, that having one, makes my wood burning simpler. It is (to me) just another piece that can go bad, and need replacement or repair. For me, "less" is better. That's all.
-Steve

Hi Steve,
I didn't take that as a slam at all.. I just wanted to touch on my experience as a long time cat stove user.. There is nothing complicated other than I have a bypass damper (which I believe even secondary burn stoves have) and one extra air inlet for the cat which I move very little. The majority of the cats are around $100.00 and last a good long time.. I'd have to inspect some of the newer cat stoves to see how much more complicated they are which is something I'd like to do.. It would be great if we could visit one place and compare every common stove being sold so we could compare and take notes..

Ray

 

[raybonz]

It's my understanding that the strength of the Cat is that it allows lower, longer burns. That's particularly valuable down south here, maybe not your primary concern at absolute zero temperatures there.

You are absolutely correct as I can choke this stove way down and still burn clean and get long burn times to boot.. If it's really cold this stove is quite capable however it will consume more wood like any stove.. I don't see how people can make a fortune servicing cat stoves as I have only ever bought 2 parts and perhaps 3-4 cats in over 20 years.. Those 2 parts cost $58.00 and $25.00 and the cats are in the $100.00 range and pay for themselves.. I'd like to see more opinions on this subject from other cat stove users..

Ray

 

[SolarAndWood]

I don't see how people can make a fortune servicing cat stoves as I have only ever bought 2 parts and perhaps 3-4 cats in over 20 years.. Those 2 parts cost $58.00 and $25.00 and the cats are in the $100.00 range and pay for themselves.. I'd like to see more opinions on this subject from other cat stove users..

Trying to make a cast iron cat stove with with many seals and expensive parts heat what the marketing literature says it will heat would provide him with a steady revenue stream. That revenue stream has nothing to do with cats in general though.

 

[raybonz]

I don't see how people can make a fortune servicing cat stoves as I have only ever bought 2 parts and perhaps 3-4 cats in over 20 years.. Those 2 parts cost $58.00 and $25.00 and the cats are in the $100.00 range and pay for themselves.. I'd like to see more opinions on this subject from other cat stove users..

Trying to make a cast iron cat stove with with many seals and expensive parts heat what the marketing literature says it will heat would provide him with a steady revenue stream. That revenue stream has nothing to do with cats in general though.

I've read many posts here and it appears to me that certain Vermont Castings stoves are the most expensive to maintain.. The rest of the stoves seem pretty durable and relatively low maintenance.. You build any stove with lots of unprotected refractory material and you're gonna be needing parts..

Ray

 

[SolarAndWood]

No arguments there Ray.

 

[summit]

It's my understanding that the strength of the Cat is that it allows lower, longer burns. That's particularly valuable down south here, maybe not your primary concern at absolute zero temperatures there.

You are absolutely correct as I can choke this stove way down and still burn clean and get long burn times to boot.. If it's really cold this stove is quite capable however it will consume more wood like any stove.. I don't see how people can make a fortune servicing cat stoves as I have only ever bought 2 parts and perhaps 3-4 cats in over 20 years.. Those 2 parts cost $58.00 and $25.00 and the cats are in the $100.00 range and pay for themselves.. I'd like to see more opinions on this subject from other cat stove users..

Ray

Ray: you are indeed in a rare category of Dutchwest owners. Most need frequent repair... we get alot of used stove trade ins and junkers. They all need some sork, usually, but it is the CAT units that always need the most. We also do some rebuilds on stoves for customers. its about a 8 to 1 ratio of CAT to noncat stove owners that come to us to do this. To the OP: the BK would probably do a longer burn, they are an enormous stove. I'm biased, however, and would advise for the PE just due to the simplicity and ease of the 2ndry burn system and also the lack of moving parts. I like the Harman, all the neat extra goodies are great, but it will require a similar maintainence schedule as a CAT stove, and also has a bunch of parts. Have you considered a soapstone stove? The Mansfield would be an ideal fit for someone wanting a simple burn system, but long heat retention....

 

[Backwoods Savage]

My borough has a "cash for clunkers" type program for replacing old woodstoves. I qualify (they give you $1500 toward a new high efficiency woodstove and $1000 toward the chimney). I currently use a 30 year old Osburn and like it but it is not efficient at all. I have narrowed it down to the Harman TL300, Blaze king or Pacific Energy. They all use different technologies and I am not familiar with the pros and cons of each. What would be the advantage of a catalytic converter as on the Blaze king? I live in North Pole Alaska and the winters are harsh so we do need a strong heater. Our house is 2 story 1120 sq ft up and down (2240 total). I really like the harman (I like the top load plus the grill and the large ash box). I like the thermostat on the blaze king and I like the combustor on the Pacific. I would appreciate Anyone with any of those stoves commenting as well as info on the various afterburners. Do they all heat well and burn efficiently, it seems like it is hard to compare numbers as they seem to use different formulas in their brochures. Thanks in advance...

Welcome to the forum hotprinter. It looks like you are getting some serious cold right now!

I think that is a great program they have on replacing the older stoves. I also think once you get one of the newer stoves you will love it the same as we have. I will caution you though that you are best served with the newer stoves to have some really good seasoned wood. Dry is the word and not cut today, burn tomorrow. Not even cut this fall and burn this winter. If you have 2-3 year old wood that is fantastic and you will get more heat from it. For example, when we put in our new soapstone stove we suddenly found we were warmer in the house and burned only half the amount of wood we used to burn in the hold heater! Great benefit.

We have another member on here from the Yukon and I"m hoping he will chime in to give his opinions. I may send him a message to make sure he posts on this. We also have a few other members from Alaska that no doubt will be helping you on this decision.

I will say that the benefits of the cat stove is that you can burn slower for longer burns and not have creosote problems. We are into our 4th year with our cat stove and have cleaned the chimney once. Yet, the non-cat stoves can also be really good.

Good luck.

 

[eujamfh]

I have both a cat and non-cat. They both have their pluses. We use the non-cat more often in the shoulder season to take the chill out. The cat gets going in the cold season. It I were to have only one...in Virginia, I would pick the non-cat. Secondaries burn just as clean, and I like it for quick fires that I let burn out. Also may be because it is closer to the garage and therefore wood source. However, unlike the cat I can not chock it back as much and still get as clean a burn for as long a period.

If I was more north, I would probably get a large cat if I was to have only one. I personally don't see much difference between the two for care. Both require some, but nothing that is so overwhelming that it would sway me one way or another. The key as folks here will point out is the quality - moisture - of the wood.

I would buy a "good" and not cheap stove. I would also get as large a fire box as you can get. Yours will get lots of use and you want it build like a tank. We love our Buck, but you may have a hard time finding them up there. Never owning the two you note, I can't comment on them personally, but there are folks here that can.

Good luck with your decision. Sounds as if the incentives are great...lucky for you!

 

[bogydave]

I replaced my 25 yr+ old BK with a new BK with a "cat".
I have trouble on the warmer days above 25°f keeping the house below 74.
I'm heating 2600 +/- sq ft.
It cranks out plenty of heat (more than old stove), burns less wood than the old stove With longer burn times.
We just went trough a week of 45 & up MPH winds, temps 0 to 15, serious chill factors, house stayed warm
(around 70) .
House has been tighten up allot but still has air leaks & I don't plan on doing more sealing, I kinda like getting
fresh air in the house. I believe "too tight" is unhealthy.
Now the wind quit, (-8 °f) & the house is back to the 70s with 10 to 12 + hour burn times & not running on the highest settings.
Good dry wood is important to efficient burning & good heat output.

I don't know much about other stoves, but I know I am impressed with the new Catalytic BK.
I'm guessing 30 to 40% less wood burned, more heat, cleaner burning, long burn times.
The fans (I got the "fan" kit) are a little noisy but they do help.
The "T-stat" works well.
I got the glass door, I believe it puts out more heat but have no stats to prove it. (Looks cool when burning & I can
see the fire to know if I need/want to "tinker" with it)

No creosote issues like the old stove but some of that may be I'm using better seasoned wood.

There was/is a learning curve learning to use the cat, regulating the "low" heat temps, wood placement, T-stat settings etc..
"High heat" output was easy, "crank it up" with a full load N/S wood & stand back.

I learned this year that birch needs to be 2 year seasoned for a perfect burn.
I mean it is a very noticeable difference, "dry vs almost dry" wood, there is a big difference.

My wife learned that you can't stand as close to the new stove as the old one, it will melt/sing synthetics.

Any of the new designed EPA stove are (IMO) better & more efficient than the older ones.
It was well worth the upgrade for us.
I'm a happy BK owner but probably would be a happy with any of the newer stoves (compared to the older stoves)
It cranks out "heat"

 

[raybonz]

I replaced my 25 yr+ old BK with a new BK with a "cat".
I have trouble on the warmer days above 25°f keeping the house below 74.
I'm heating 2600 +/- sq ft.
It cranks out plenty of heat (more than old stove), burns less wood than the old stove With longer burn times.
We just went trough a week of 45 & up MPH winds, temps 0 to 15, serious chill factors, house stayed warm
(around 70) .
House has been tighten up allot but still has air leaks & I don't plan on doing more sealing, I kinda like getting
fresh air in the house. I believe "too tight" is unhealthy.
Now the wind quit, (-8 °f) & the house is back to the 70s with 10 to 12 + hour burn times & not running on the highest settings.
Good dry wood is important to efficient burning & good heat output.

I don't know much about other stoves, but I know I am impressed with the new Catalytic BK.
I'm guessing 30 to 40% less wood burned, more heat, cleaner burning, long burn times.
The fans (I got the "fan" kit) are a little noisy but they do help.
The "T-stat" works well.
I got the glass door, I believe it puts out more heat but have no stats to prove it. (Looks cool when burning & I can
see the fire to know if I need/want to "tinker" with it)

No creosote issues like the old stove but some of that may be I'm using better seasoned wood.

There was/is a learning curve learning to use the cat, regulating the "low" heat temps, wood placement, T-stat settings etc..
"High heat" output was easy, "crank it up" with a full load N/S wood & stand back.

I learned this year that birch needs to be 2 year seasoned for a perfect burn.
I mean it is a very noticeable difference, "dry vs almost dry" wood, there is a big difference.

My wife learned that you can't stand as close to the new stove as the old one, it will melt/sing synthetics.

Any of the new designed EPA stove are (IMO) better & more efficient than the older ones.
It was well worth the upgrade for us.
I'm a happy BK owner but probably would be a happy with any of the newer stoves (compared to the older stoves)
It cranks out "heat"

Sounds like a great stove for both moderate and high demand heat loads! If I lived up that way I think that would be the best stove overall...

Ray

 

[hotprinter]

I've made a small fortune over the years servicing catalytic stoves. I myself have a P.E. Vista I've been happy with for 5 years. It's simple , efficient, durable. I spend too much time on other people's gear to want to go home and fix my own. I'm familiar with Harmon, good stove. Still, why have moving parts at all? Top load is nice, but trouble free burning and a good night's sleep are better. You are not in the recreational burning catagory, I guess. Consider going with the sure thing.
I've also got an old V.C. defiant in the house that I love, sounds like you're moving on from that kind of thing though. Good luck, and Happy Heating!!

WHAT is the sure thing?

 

[joel95ex]

I would price the replacement element for the cat before I bought one. that being said, I would not buy one because it is one more thing to deal with. and eventually it is another expense when it wears out---not sure how long that is but cats on cars are expensive---not sure how much stove cats are thought.

 

[North of 60]

I would price the replacement element for the cat before I bought one. that being said, I would not buy one because it is one more thing to deal with. and eventually it is another expense when it wears out---not sure how long that is but cats on cars are expensive---not sure how much stove cats are thought.

When I need a 12-15hr burn on spruce and pine and can rely on that for 5yrs now @ 8-10 months 24/7 a year without even removing the CAT and still going strong. House is 2140sq ft. Just got out of -40 weather and was able to keep the OIL off as was home recovering from surgery feeding the stove @ 8hr intervals with the BK princess. I go through about 6-8 cord a year of soft wood. Thats most peoples shoulder season crap. Yes, I can put a price on that..... PRICELESS!
CHEERS!

 

[joel95ex]

shoulder season crap? what's that supposed to mean?

 

[North of 60]

shoulder season crap? what's that supposed to mean?

Thats what the majority of people say softwood is good for. Shoulder seasons. Its their crap wood. I gotta heat with that stuff in a real winter.
Mind you I think our softwood is more dense due to our climate.

 

[cptoneleg]

I wish I had the oportunity to burn, learn and live with all of these great stoves, when I was shopping and studying which stove to purchase I went from Englander , Hearthston , then to Jotul, and had just got into studing on the B K and said $$it its getting cold out need to make up mind. Love my stove but I suggest BK