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change power companies in PA?

Post in 'The Green Room' started by maverick06, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. Redbarn

    Redbarn Burning Hunk

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
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    Loc:
    SE PA
    Our March Bill arrived this morning.

    The Reliant rate is $0.06889810 per kWh
    The use of 8 decimal places amuses me !

    The Met Ed compare rate is $0.0887

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  2. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

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    SE PA
    New bill arrived, as expected from media reports, my PECO price to compare jumped a penny to 9.61 cents (i.e. not including delivery). My PA wind power (under 24 mo contract) is now 1.16 cents/kWh cheaper than my conventional excelon power. With my thirsty HPs and all electric house, that saves me about $200 AND ~10 tons of CO2 per year. :cool:
    Redbarn likes this.
  3. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    Looks great.

    I just switched (in progress) from Constellation power to ?? a United Airlines connected supplier. I get 12,500 miles, about 1/2 a ticket, so that is worth about $200 on my next flight I don't have to buy. I run a geothermal hp, that's my 20+ year contribution to lowering my electric bill and CO2.
    woodgeek likes this.
  4. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

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    PECO price structure has changed....they dropped their generation a penny (saving me nothing, but making them more competitive) and boosted their distribution by 2 cents. The price of wind power has also climbed (for new customers), but my contract price is still 0.2 cents cheaper than PECO. So, I got 2 mos of decent savings for switching ($40), but am still saving the CO2. Mischief managed.
  5. Laszlo

    Laszlo Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    SE Pennsylvania
    Just got our second bill since our switch to wind. Looks like we lucked out by locking in 36 months at 8.28¢/kWh. We would have made the switch to wind power anyway, even if marginally more expensive--but I certainly won't complain that the last two months were our lowest electric bills in the last 6 years. :cool:

    While the online sign-up was very easy, I was annoyed with PA's requirement of a "16 day rule", which delayed our switch by another month. I submitted my switch request March 3, but apparently not soon enough to affect my March 19 meter reading. As a result, we got a taste of PECO's 9.61¢/kWh rate in April, and had to wait 47 days before starting to pay the reduced price.

    But we saved $13.10 for May (1.33¢/kWh), and now with PECO's shift of costs from generation to distribution, only $3.19 in June. The real savings for us will come in winter with our heat pump in heavy use, and several years down the road when I bet PECO's prices will be much higher. For reference, when they started listing the "Price to Compare" on our bill in 2011, the generation cost was only 3.78¢/kWh... :eek:
    PECO's Price to Compare.png
    woodgeek likes this.
  6. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

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    Ok, I dug through this old post to get info for my contract renewal. After 30 mins of googling, I found that my current supplier (trieagle 'green eagle') was still cheapest for '100% PA windpower', and offered a discount (about 0.6 cents/kWh) to renewing customers.

    That was the good news. The bad news is that the new fixed rate is 10.1 cents/kWh for 36 mos, versus my previous rate of 8.5 cents for the last 24 mos.

    Looks like the price is set by in-state RPS compliance RECs (which are mostly wind), whose costs have gone up $15 (per 1 MWh, or 1.5 cents/kWh) in the last 2 years in PA. When I signed up in 12/2012, they only cost $1, now they are more like $16. I guess they found their customers?

    DOE page: http://apps3.eere.energy.gov/greenpower/markets/certificates.shtml?page=5

    The same outfit sells wind power tied to national wind RECs that are still being priced at $1/MWh (0.1 cent/kWh). No surprise, that power is about 1.5 cents cheaper. I am happy to pay an extra penny to support my instate RE generators, and know they are feeding into my local grid, rather than a saturated (and thus ultra low price) REC market in west texas or iowa.

    Bottom line, I went from 0.5-1 cent cheaper than conventional/Excelon power to ~1 cent more. Oh well, if Laszlo's PECO price trend above holds, I could still end up saving over the 3 year contract term.

    -----------------------------------------------

    While my PA windpower cost went up 10% relative to my contract 2 years ago (including distribution), in the last two years energy retrofits have dropped my BTU heating requirements by 25%, and DIY alterations to my HP controller should increase my SCOP by 25%.

    In oil terms, my 2250 sq ft house would currently require ~500 gallons/yr at 4500 HDD65, and will instead use ~6000 kWh/yr of local windpower costing $900, or the equivalent of $1.80 per gallon HO. Current prices are falling, but are currently $3/gal $2.40/gal in my area. In addition, of course, we are saving ~6-7 tons of CO2 per year (or 13 tons/year relative to pre-retrofit oil usage)

    In EV terms, my fuel cost to go 100 miles is now ~$4.50 with local wind power, versus a Prius getting a seasonal average 45 mpg at (current/local) $2.60 gasoline, which works out to $5.75 / 100miles. So, our EV is saving $125 and roughly 3 tons of CO2/yr relative to a Prius (at 10k miles per year), which is why when they see a Prius on the road the kids like to point and say 'Look, a gas guzzler!'

    And then when I feel too righteous, I fly to Hong Kong on business. ;em
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
  7. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    I continue to shop for the lowest, not cleanest cost. I pay my "share" of CO2 minimization through heating efficiency (And I can still go for all new windows in myh 30 year old house). Not worth looking the name up, but comparing JCP&L compare rate my guaranteed 10 cents a KWH for energy was costing me a ewe bucks over the JCP&L rate so I call JCP&L and told them to switch me back to them. There was not fee, indeed, I then got a telephone call from the 3rd party offering me a $50 check and a continued 10 cent guarantee. I took it, no look at the cost of gas (oil? and Natural gas too?) go down, but I lost again, but my 3rd party agreements (yes I got the $50 check) has no cancellation fee.

    In early November I replaced my 21 year old Water Furnace with a new same brand. I took the hot water option and can say it has even in this mild NJ Nov/Dec been producing at least 95% of my hot water. My hot water heater is electric, resistive. The Water Furnace (geothermal, or ground sourced) runs mostly in Stage I with an effective COP of about 4.5, do there I go again, using 22% as much dirty electricity to heat water as resistive hot water. Again, think I mentioned before, I think I'm getting a high percentage of electricity from nuclear. Yes, the supplier has told me but "in one eye, out the other" in my aging mind.
  8. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

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    The best I found in NJ with this site: http://www.maketheswitchusa.com/energy-company-plans/nj

    was a 10.06 cent/kWh on a fixed 36 mo contract. They think your price to compare at JCP&L is 10.3 cents, so might save you a measly $30/year if your current rate stayed unchanged. But you would be locked in by a $125 cancellation fee.

    But if you were worried your rates would skyrocket, it would be good insurance. ;hm
  9. Laszlo

    Laszlo Member

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    Loc:
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    Here's an update on PECO's pricing month-to-month. Now including the distribution charges, which add on 4-6¢/kWh, and is the only portion of variable pricing we're currently subject to. Through the end of 2012 we had two distribution rates due to a Residential Heating discount that's no longer in place. If the "Electric Off-Peak Service" distribution rate is the regular charge, then I have the numbers (except for June 2011) to fill them in going further back.

    Things look pretty stable for now, without the dramatic doubling seen in the first two years of PtC reporting. But even so, feeling pretty good about our fixed 8.28¢ generation rate. It was only very slightly undercut for 3 months this Fall, but usually rides comfortably below PECO's price to compare.

    That's good to know that TriEagle offers discounts to continuing customers. When we're up for renewal, I think we'll opt for the lower-priced National Wind plan, as I don't particularly care if the wind power credit is earned in-state if it's more cost-effective to develop elsewhere.
    PECO Price to Compare + Distribution Charges.png
    woodgeek likes this.
  10. Laszlo

    Laszlo Member

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    To anyone looking to switch, Green Energy Collaborative is now offering 100% wind power at the 3-year fixed price of 8.06¢ per kWh. That's the lowest I've seen them offer in the past two years (when I signed up at 8.28¢), and PECO's price hasn't been that low since 2012! PECO's current price is 9.07¢, so if you switch you'll save a full penny per kWh today, and likely more in future months when PECO decides to raise rates again.
  11. woodgeek

    woodgeek Minister of Fire

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    Cool. I saw that price for wind RECs, but the cheapest PA wind RECs were a penny more.

    In my limited research, there is a lot of stranded or nearly stranded wind in West Texas, and their RECs are going for a song. RECs in other states seems to be 'finding a price'.
  12. Jerry_NJ

    Jerry_NJ Minister of Fire

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    Well, being more economic driven that green driven, that price is one I'd take...but in NJ, parent company in OH, I don't think I have access to the great offer in PA... I live less than 30 miles (estimate as the crow flies) from the PA border.

    So for now I satisfy my attention to both matters with a new Series 5 Water Furnace Geothermal Heat Pump... my second, the first lasted 21 years and was replaced as a precaution, not because it failed.
  13. Laszlo

    Laszlo Member

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    Also limited research, but it seems Texas legislators and public planners have caught on to the wind potential out in west Texas, and have put in place a forward-thinking “if-you-build-it, they-will-come” approach to transmission lines. A 2005 law ordered the PUC to establish Competitive Renewable Energy Zones (CREZ), where lines are built from the best wind sites out to the demand centers in the eastern part of the state. Texas actually has a significant advantage in this regard--for instance, if Kansas wind farms wanted to find transmission paths to big cities, they'd have to negotiate for lines across several different states, which introduces more hurdles and bureaucratic delays. Texas has both supply and demand in-state, and a grid that's more separate from its neighbors than other states. That allows for a more streamlined approach, with less haggling over cost-sharing.

    Even with the newly built 18,500 MW of transmission capacity, I'm sure there will be more imbalances as wind producers push to use it all. But if they start overbuilding, the Texas grid is well-positioned to be responsive in rectifying saturated lines and in laying the groundwork to prepare for future projects.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/24/b...ed-for-wind-power-and-more-farms-plug-in.html
    http://www.renewableenergyworld.com...as-wind-boosted-with-improved-public-planning
    CREZ.jpg
    woodgeek likes this.

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