feds banning wood stoves??

[velvetfoot]

Please inform the residents of Mexico City, Linfen, and Yangquan.

co2 is laying waste to those places?

 

[jetsam]

co2 is laying waste to those places?

Like bourbon, like bacon, like women: we would die without it, and yet it's killing us. Ain't life grand?

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases

 

[Ashful]

How long do we really think Americans would have put up with cars that emit smoke and stink...to the point of making you gag? Did it need to be regulated exactly when it did, or would the market have corrected and a demand created for a cleaner car that doesn't smell? Or did we absolutely need the regulations we had, when we had them? .

The least expensive solution always wins. If the stinky car costs 20% less than a clean car of equal performance, size, and styling, then the stinky car will outsell the clean car. There are far more Kobalt ratchets sold every year, than Snap-On.

 

[bholler]

good luck with that

We dont need luck we have facts on our side.

To give all the credit to regulation through environmentalism is a huge disservice to innovation, engineering and materials sciences. Sometimes they work together and sometimes they really don't. How long do we really think Americans would have put up with cars that emit smoke and stink...to the point of making you gag? Did it need to be regulated exactly when it did, or would the market have corrected and a demand created for a cleaner car that doesn't smell? Or did we absolutely need the regulations we had, when we had them?

How many trees do you think email and mobile phones saved? Hundreds of millions so far..and many millions to come? Those were market driven, capitalist inventions..and have hugely positive environmental impacts.

We are not giving all the credit to the regulations at all. Without the engineers ect that developed those products the regulations would have done nothing at all that is obvious. And yes some changes would have happened without regulations. But it would not have happened as fast or as well without those regulations.

And yes email and phones have saved allot of paper without a doubt but that was not the goal. We just got an added benefit from it.

I am not saying that all the regulations are right by any means but most of them have pushed us in the right direction.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Just about the entire scientific community.

Sorry...that is not true. This is said time and time again to make anyone feel stupid for questioning "the 95%+ consensus".

After all..the majority of scientists have never been wrong....right?

 

[velvetfoot]

Like bourbon, like bacon, like women: we would die without it, and yet it's killing us. Ain't life grand?

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases

This web page may change in the not so distant future.

 

[Gotrek]

Co2 levels are actually at a dangerously low level when looking at co2 trapped in ice layers. Humans have negligible impact on co2 anyways.

 

[bholler]

Sorry...that is not true. This is said time and time again to make anyone feel stupid for questioning "the 95%+ consensus".

After all..the majority of scientists have never been wrong....right?

Show me some actual facts that say that excess levels of co2 in the atmosphere does no harm. There can be a debate about how much of a role we have played in that happening but it is very clear that high levels of co2 cause many problems.

 

[bholler]

This web page may change in the not so distant future.

An election does not change scientific fact no matter how much you want it to.

 

[velvetfoot]

An election does not change scientific fact no matter how much you want it to.

Science should involve argument, not declarations by self-serving groups, say, a UN Panel, especially when redistribution of wealth is concerned.

 

[bholler]

Science should involve argument, not declarations by self-serving groups, say, a UN Panel, especially when redistribution of wealth is concerned.

No science should rely on facts. I will agree we dont have all of the facts that tell us without any doubt whatsoever that humans are causing climate change. So that part can be debated. But the fact that increased co2 levels cause problems cannot be debated it has been proven many times in many different ways. I do agree that it should not be dictated by declaration though. But when you have people who refuse to acknowledge the facts what are you to do?

 

[blades]

And that , Veltvetfoot, is it in a nutshell. Hate to say it but like everything else-- just follow the money trail.

 

[velvetfoot]

But when you have people who refuse to acknowledge the facts what are you to do?

Yes, re-educate them, perhaps by sending them to camps for years of hard labor.

Unsubscribed.

 

[heavy hammer]

Look at all the changes that have happened over the years with burning technology. Some like the changes while others don't, regardless you can still burn wood. It is probably something that won't be taken away any time soon. These are just ways to get people arguing, look at how long they have been trying to ban guns. There has been a lot of change and regulation over the years, but you can still buy and own a firearm. For them to actually make, pass and inforce such a law is about impossible. I believe video's like that are there just to do exactly what it did get a certain demographic of people arguing. I say just try and burn correctly and we should all be good, plus it's thanksgiving everyone enjoy.

 

[bholler]

Yes, re-educate them, perhaps by sending them to camps for years of hard labor.

just asking for education no re education needed.

 

[vinny11950]

Here is some real good science on fire and wood from Richard Feynman. One of my favorite Youtube clips.

 

[Gotrek]

Look at all the changes that have happened over the years with burning technology. Some like the changes while others don't, regardless you can still burn wood. It is probably something that won't be taken away any time soon. These are just ways to get people arguing, look at how long they have been trying to ban guns. There has been a lot of change and regulation over the years, but you can still buy and own a firearm. For them to actually make, pass and inforce such a law is about impossible. I believe video's like that are there just to do exactly what it did get a certain demographic of people arguing. I say just try and burn correctly and we should all be good, plus it's thanksgiving everyone enjoy.

Don't become complacent though or it might before you can even realize it or do something about it...

 

[bholler]

Don't become complacent though or it might before you can even realize it or do something about it...

Nope not gonna happen.

 

[jetsam]

This web page may change in the not so distant future.

That web page is going to have an Exxon-Mobil banner across the top, and a link to Breitbart news and infowars.com. :/

 

[jetsam]

An election does not change scientific fact no matter how much you want it to.

But scientific fact doesn't write web pages- people do.

When people write their web pages, will they seek consensus and researched facts to populate their web pages, or will they be influenced by someone who wants to sell more stuff so they can buy themselves a fourth gold-plated private jet?

Both things happen. One happens more than the other.

What happens even more than both of those put together makes little sense if you're not interested in human nature. We need to belong to a group and be accepted. We seek out groups and acceptance all of our lives. We are more likely to agree with the group where we find acceptance, and disagree with anyone who disagrees with them.

"We" is good; "They" are bad. They wouldn't say that disagreeing stuff if there wasn't something fundamentally wrong with them!

This one trait can almost completely negate the impressive powers of observation and reason that your brain has.

Once feeling acceptance from your group has become important to you, facts take a back seat to good old us vs. them.

Deny it all you want- it happens to all of us to greater and lesser degrees, and we're all members of multiple groups.

Giant corporations and political parties exploit this every single day. People are out right now arguing violently against their own self-interest because they feel acceptance from a social group (which was probably invented by a think tank to drive profits).

The short version of that is "All people are really crazy and you shouldn't expect to hear any sense out of them", but it's kind of fascinating to watch them interact. Include yourself in your observations- that's been pretty interesting for me to do, anyway.

 

[vinny11950]

You guys are traveling down the Ash Can road. No bueno.

 

[begreen]

An on that note...