Fun with the BK cat.

[HotCoals]

Found out how to get a nice light show with the stove.
I had a nice fire going at about 500 degrees f...maybe 2/3 full.
Good bed of coals under wood because of 24/7 running.
Cat about 2/3.

In experimentation with it I found that the intake air likes to close at about 2.
To get a good show you have to find where the temp setting is just before the intake closes.
On mine I can hear it click closed around 2. When I hear that I open back up just a hair.
Run the blower on low or a little faster to load the stove some.

Doing this I had a little flame coming off the wood,but the cat was making flames before the combuster ,dancing up and down and all around..lol.
Doing this my stove is around 550 or a little more at stove top next to cat gauge.
Putting out really nice heat.

If the show stops just open the air a little more till it starts again.
I don't think I'm abusing the stove doing it..least I hope not,all seems good.
In the next few days I'll get a vid..but right now real life is calling.
Need to change oil and tune up a few cars!

Has anybody else did this on purpose or just have your stove do it on it's own?
I'm sure they must but mine most of the time is just glowing..no flames.
Need colder weather!

 

[North of 60]

Yes, in colder weather the view will come to life. Thats when you would rather be inside anyways to watch the fire. ;-)
Cheers

 

[Renovation]

Yes, in colder weather the view will come to life. Thats when you would rather be inside anyways to watch the fire. ;-)
Cheers

Aww, sweet! Thanks, I saved that one. :coolsmile:

 

[RustyShackleford]

In experimentation with it I found that the intake air likes to close at about 2.
To get a good show you have to find where the temp setting is just before the intake closes.
On mine I can hear it click closed around 2. When I hear that I open back up just a hair.

I pulled the cover off my thermostat when I was messing with the reverse-wound
coil issue, and never put it back. I like seeing where the valve is at all times.
I don't see how there could be any harm in it unless something heavy fell on
the flapper and damaged it.

Maybe I'll make a viewport for the cover !

 

[North of 60]

The cover that says DO NOT REMOVE.
That does a minimum of 3 things things. 1) Makes your OAK inoperable 9If you use one)
2) Changes the restrictive air path/ thermo shiphon loop on your combustion air.
3) Probably removes your UL approval for insurance

 

[RustyShackleford]

The cover that says DO NOT REMOVE.

Yeah, I don't always stay between the lines. FWIW, the BK tech guy said it was ok to remove
it (temporarily) to check the thermotstat. He DID stress to make sure the flapper was
near closed before re-installing it, lest the edge of the flapper jam against it somehow.

1) Makes your OAK inoperable (If you use one)

Yes, I can see why that'd be. I don't use one; maybe I should. My stove sits on a
brick floor underneath which is what my bulder called "the sarcophagus" (a massive
cinderblock foundation for the filled-with-mortar cinderblock wall that sits behind the
stove, for thermal mass for it and fo the passive solar). Routing an OAK would be
tricky. I don't think I need it. House is tight enough that whole-house fan causes
stove to belch smoke, but bathroom vent fan has no effect. What do you think ?

2) Changes the restrictive air path/ thermo shiphon loop on your combustion air.

I don't buy that. Is there some reference on this ?

3) Probably removes your UL approval for insurance

Because of possible "flash back" of fire out the top ? I guess that
could happen, but seems implausible. And there's nothing anywhere
near flammable around there.

Oh well. Not really trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand better.
Maybe I should seriously consider the viewing-port option. Just machine out
most of the top of the cover and put a piece of tempered glass on there with
high-temp RTV ...

 

[HotCoals]

I think a viewing port would be cool..I'll buy one from you when you get it in production!
But I do like the thermostat.

 

[ecocavalier02]

2 and 1/4 and i always get a decent light show. for hours.

 

[North of 60]

The cover that says DO NOT REMOVE.

Yeah, I don't always stay between the lines. FWIW, the BK tech guy said it was ok to remove
it (temporarily) to check the thermo. He DID stress to make sure the flapper was
near closed before re-installing it, lest the edge of the flapper jam against it somehow.

1) Makes your OAK inoperable (If you use one)

Yes, I can see why that'd be. I don't use one; maybe I should. My stove sits on a
brick floor underneath which is what my bulder called "the sarcophagus" (a massive
cinderblock foundation for the filled-with-mortar cinderblock wall that sits behind the
stove, for thermal mass for it and fo the passive solar). Routing an OAK would be
tricky. I don't think I need it. House is tight enough that whole-house fan causes
stove to belch smoke, but bathroom vent fan has no effect. What do you think ?

2) Changes the restrictive air path/ thermo shiphon loop on your combustion air.

I don't buy that. Is there some reference on this ?

3) Probably removes your UL approval for insurance

Because of possible "flash back" of fire out the top ? I guess that
could happen, but seems implausible. And there's nothing anywhere
near flammable around there.

Oh well. Not really trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand better.
Maybe I should seriously consider the viewing-port option. Just machine out
most of the top of the cover and put a piece of tempered glass on there with
high-temp RTV ...

Ok Rusty I am gonna go over #2 since it is the snarkiest out of them and I dont owe you any explanations, just trying to help. Things are built certain ways for a reason other than looks. Just like the hood on your car. Other BK owners I would like it if you would at least try this on your stoves since they are already assembled with the top cover on over the combustion air valve. With your stove up to operating temp, put your hand on the cover and slide it down over the back and hold it there, if you can! Thats where your pre-heated combustion air travels up the back in that large enclosed area.(a good 20"s) The air is slowed down and captured here to absorb that heat before it speeds up to travel through the restricted opening/minimum air in the flapper to be super heated in the upper tubes in your stove. When the stove is up to temp it pretty much spends most of its time in this position with the flapper moving minimal, combustion air is travelling up the back collecting heat in the large area where it enters the minimum restriction to be super-heated in the upper two tubes in the stove before it enters at the face of the Cat. So the air temp from ambient with the cover off, by-passing all this or the pre-heated air before it enters the stove is quite a measurable temp that helps in combustion efficiency. Another thing that I dont know is how much affect this has on the BImetal coil that is parked right beside it. It may be nil as I havent ###### with it.

 

[Renovation]

I think a viewing port would be cool..I'll buy one from you when you get it in production!
But I do like the thermostat.

Okay, can't resist any longer.

What you really want to do is either polish the back of the flapper, or glue a mirror to it, then put a viewing port in the cover. (Or does the drive rod exit the cover? Then you could just put a mirror or pointer on that. ) Then you shine a laser pointer/level/whatever on it (use rechargeable batteries), so that the reflected beam hits the wall or ceiling. Then, from the comfort of your recliner/PC, you can glance over whenever you want, and see what the valve is doing. ;-)

 

[North of 60]

Another indicator/REFERENCE about operating the stove and removing the cover. RE: UL and insurance.
Rant over.
Peace out.
Good night.
I feel better now.
Cheers :ahhh:

 

[Lanningjw]

My BK Princess Insert is a different animal than your stove, but I think we have some things in common about the fire show your talking about.

My insert has what I would describe as a "flash Over" when the super heated smoke gas gets some air in the fire box. I have seen and heard the insert shake for this deal. I can Evan smell a small amount of wood smoke in the house after it has rocked. It doesn't happen very often but it has happened.

I think the insert runs alot hotter than the stove model. Its encased in a brick fireplace and holds the heat in the stove/insert. I have to run the fan or the cat temp goes over 1700 degree.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Ok Rusty I am gonna go over #2 since it is the snarkiest out of them and I dont owe you any explanations, just trying to help. Things are built certain ways for a reason other than looks. Just like the hood on your car. Other BK owners I would like it if you would at least try this on your stoves since they are already assembled with the top cover on over the combustion air valve. With your stove up to operating temp, put your hand on the cover and slide it down over the back and hold it there, if you can! Thats where your pre-heated combustion air travels up the back in that large enclosed area.(a good 20"s) The air is slowed down and captured here to absorb that heat before it speeds up to travel through the restricted opening/minimum air in the flapper to be super heated in the upper tubes in your stove. When the stove is up to temp it pretty much spends most of its time in this position with the flapper moving minimal, combustion air is travelling up the back collecting heat in the large area where it enters the minimum restriction to be super-heated in the upper two tubes in the stove before it enters at the face of the Cat. So the air temp from ambient with the cover off, by-passing all this or the pre-heated air before it enters the stove is quite a measurable temp that helps in combustion efficiency. Another thing that I dont know is how much affect this has on the BImetal coil that is parked right beside it. It may be nil as I havent ###### with it.

North, I still appreciate the feedback you gave me when I was considering buying this stove and grateful
to the whole forum that I ended up buying it. None of us owes each other anything, and I appreciate
your help. Sorry if you think I was trying to be snarky, but I was just explaining why I don't
think it's that big a deal to operate the stove without the cover. I appreciate the discussion.
(Ok, I admit the "playing between the lines" comment was a little snarky).

Thanks for explaining why you think the cover has an affect on performance. Makes sense to me.
I'll try to get it back on. Part of the problem is that the edge of the cover nearest the stove has to
slip between the stove and thermostat, and I filled that with high-temp RTV when I replaced the
bad thermostat. I would like to gently remind that THIS is why I had the cover off in the first
place - a reversed thermostat coil. If I had not removed the cover (and I DID talk to the BK
tech guy before doing it), I probably would not have been able to conclusively diagnose this
problem, much less fix it. (Yes, I guess I could have made them send a technician).

I DO think it's far-fetched that having the cover off would be a safety issue. Think of all the
stoves where you can literally SEE the fire through the air intakes(s), like my old Dutchwest.
What would it takes for fire to actually work its way out through the BK's intake "manifold"
even without the cover on ? Maybe there are other reasons it compromises safety; I can't
think of any, but I'm open to discussion.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I think a viewing port would be cool..I'll buy one from you when you get it in production!
But I do like the thermostat.

Okay, can't resist any longer.

What you really want to do is either polish the back of the flapper, or glue a mirror to it, then put a viewing port in the cover. (Or does the drive rod exit the cover? Then you could just put a mirror or pointer on that. ) Then you shine a laser pointer/level/whatever on it (use rechargeable batteries), so that the reflected beam hits the wall or ceiling. Then, from the comfort of your recliner/PC, you can glance over whenever you want, and see what the valve is doing. ;-)

No, the rod which is attached to the flapper does NOT exit the cover. I thought of that, it would
have been a nice simple solution.

II'll start brushing up on my laser technique

 

[North of 60]

Ok Rusty I am gonna go over #2 since it is the snarkiest out of them and I dont owe you any explanations, just trying to help. Things are built certain ways for a reason other than looks. Just like the hood on your car. Other BK owners I would like it if you would at least try this on your stoves since they are already assembled with the top cover on over the combustion air valve. With your stove up to operating temp, put your hand on the cover and slide it down over the back and hold it there, if you can! Thats where your pre-heated combustion air travels up the back in that large enclosed area.(a good 20"s) The air is slowed down and captured here to absorb that heat before it speeds up to travel through the restricted opening/minimum air in the flapper to be super heated in the upper tubes in your stove. When the stove is up to temp it pretty much spends most of its time in this position with the flapper moving minimal, combustion air is travelling up the back collecting heat in the large area where it enters the minimum restriction to be super-heated in the upper two tubes in the stove before it enters at the face of the Cat. So the air temp from ambient with the cover off, by-passing all this or the pre-heated air before it enters the stove is quite a measurable temp that helps in combustion efficiency. Another thing that I dont know is how much affect this has on the BImetal coil that is parked right beside it. It may be nil as I havent ###### with it.

North, I still appreciate the feedback you gave me when I was considering buying this stove and grateful
to the whole forum that I ended up buying it. None of us owes each other anything, and I appreciate
your help. Sorry if you think I was trying to be snarky, but I was just explaining why I don't
think it's that big a deal to operate the stove without the cover. I appreciate the discussion.
(Ok, I admit the "playing between the lines" comment was a little snarky).

Thanks for explaining why you think the cover has an affect on performance. Makes sense to me.
I'll try to get it back on. Part of the problem is that the edge of the cover nearest the stove has to
slip between the stove and thermostat, and I filled that with high-temp RTV when I replaced the
bad thermostat. I would like to gently remind that THIS is why I had the cover off in the first
place - a reversed thermostat coil. If I had not removed the cover (and I DID talk to the BK
tech guy before doing it), I probably would not have been able to conclusively diagnose this
problem, much less fix it. (Yes, I guess I could have made them send a technician).

I DO think it's far-fetched that having the cover off would be a safety issue. Think of all the
stoves where you can literally SEE the fire through the air intakes(s), like my old Dutchwest.
What would it takes for fire to actually work its way out through the BK's intake "manifold"
even without the cover on ? Maybe there are other reasons it compromises safety; I can't
think of any, but I'm open to discussion.

Hey, I am completely guilty of one of those guys that tries to defend why he spent that hard earned money on his purchase and is technically trying to prove he is getting the most out of it. Cheers