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Harman auto shut down on UPS

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by MikeinRI, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. SwineFlue

    SwineFlue Minister of Fire

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    from the manual: "If the fire is still burning, it will resume normal operation"

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  2. MikeNH

    MikeNH Member

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    I have an E series board and dipswitch #4 is set to "off" which my dealer told me would enable the "shutdown on UPS power" feature. Whether I've had dipswitch #4 on or off, I never got it to work with my Cyberpower UPS. To be fair, my UPS is not one of the two UPS tested and certified by Harman for this feature. Not a big loss as I could see this feature coming in handy for when we're not home, but 95% of the time when we lose power, we're home because the weather outside is crap. The UPS gives me plenty of time to fire up the generator while the stove continues to run rather than smoke up the house. The stove we have in the basement is attached to a 30 ft vertical chimney which drafts on its own, so no smoke in the house with that one.
  3. P43pig

    P43pig New Member

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    I had this same question on how it knows and emailed Harman 4 days ago...never heard back from them.
  4. gvmelbrty

    gvmelbrty New Member

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    I gave up waiting for Harman to reply to my emails and posted this to Harman's Facebook page yesterday.. waiting for a reply:

    I have a Harman P68 (manufactured 03/2013) and have a question about using a UPS (uninterruptible power supply).

    The stove manual states that during a power loss, auto-shutdown has been tested to work with two UPS models (APC #BE750G and TrippLite INTERNET750U).

    Questions: Are these two approved models TRUE sine-wave UPS's? - Is that the necessary component for a UPS to trigger an automatic stove shutdown? How does the stove know that it is running from a UPS - and thereby trigger a shutdown?

    I have an extra NON true sine wave UPS laying around that I can use - or does my UPS need to be TRUE sine wave?
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  5. THE ROOSTER

    THE ROOSTER Feeling the Heat

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    I have an older Harman Accentra and use the Harman 512H with (6) six volt golf cart batteries. It will run my stove for 10 hours before it shuts down.
  6. tigers2007

    tigers2007 New Member

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    I suppose I could run a test. I have a really old APC 500 model that has a solid steel case. Works excellent but it doesn't have all the new bells and whistles like "power conditioning". I'll yank the plug from the UPS to the wall and report back here if anything crazy happens. I suppose I could preset the machine to make sure it isn't running the room blowers and such. I'll lower the temp to like 68 and see if she does anything at all.
  7. gfreek

    gfreek Minister of Fire

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    I looked up the two approved models and they are not "True" sine wave and I think that is what causes the unit to go to shut down mode.. I could be wrong on this but others have used Pure sine wave UPS and inverters and not go to shut down mode...
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  8. Sniz

    Sniz Member

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    Just ordered the approved 750.....I'll run a test when it arrives this upcoming week and report back. Will basically just throw the breaker and see if it reacts. Stove was built this year so it should work.
  9. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    Nice. Looking to pull the trigger soon on one of these.
  10. Sniz

    Sniz Member

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    I have no vertical rise in my exhaust so better safe than sorry....also above ground power lines on a heavily treed lot and neighborhood
  11. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    Same here regarding the vent. My neighborhood has all underground lines. The ice storm of '09?/'10? pretty much knocked all the dead wood and weak trees down. But that situation will only last so long.
  12. tigers2007

    tigers2007 New Member

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    I haven't been home to test my old skool APC. here is a Tripp-Lite UPS on eBay for $15 plus $15 shipping. About $20 for a new battery so for $50 you can be covered with a factory approved UPS. Or just buy a new one from APC or Tripp-Lite. Since neither of the factory approved UPS's have true sine waveforms, I suppose you could use any ancient UPS. I'll still report back. Note, there is an old thread here where some of the elders insist that anything but pure sinewave will create a bad situation for blower motors not already running.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  13. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    Just ordered the APC UPS. I just skimmed over the thread listed above and it seems the consensus is motors don't like to start up on non-sinewave voltage. Seeing the new Harman boards sense this change in voltage "shape" and go into shutdown mode, I'm gonna assume if the dist blower isn't already running, it's not gonna start in shutdown mode. I'm not looking to extend the run time, just have the stove shutdown without setting any smoke alarms off.

    It's kind of a brilliant design on Harman's part to design a circuit that automatically shuts the stove off in a power outage. I'm also gonna assume, hopefully not foolishly, that Harman has thoroughly tested this UPS and came to the conclusion that the modified sine wave will not damage anything.

    Anyone know the lifespan of the batteries in this UPS? Not the runtime, but the actual longevity of them, assuming they're used rarely or not at all.
  14. zrtmatos

    zrtmatos Member

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    I have a 2007 Harman Accentra FS that is plugged into a CyberPower 750 UPS. Will this also work to shut it down? I have mine set on automatic start.
  15. tigers2007

    tigers2007 New Member

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    My ancient APC 500 series uses the same batteries as the factory approved UPS's. I last replaced the battery in 2010 and I still can get at least 10min out of it. Not sure what the life span is though. It all depends on the manufacturer of the battery. I used to be an IT specialist, and we had over 50 APC 1200 SmartUPS. Due to the crappy power conditions, we would swap the batteries out every two years. I'm sure you could get probably five years without having any issues. The battery used in these units are very common with hobby use. I believe they are 12 volt 7 amp.
  16. tigers2007

    tigers2007 New Member

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    That draws a good question, does it know not to start when on battery-power? I think it's time that someone does an "all points" test with a factory approved model to see what happens in all these conditions.

    -if the power is restored in 2 minutes and the fire is going, will it carry on without shutting down?

    -does it know not to activate the autoignition if the fire out and it's on battery power

    Id really like to know how smart the logic is with the control board.
  17. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

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  18. SwineFlue

    SwineFlue Minister of Fire

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    The Harman manuals say the automatic shutdown works with
    "Rev E or later software available beginning in November 2010"
  19. zrtmatos

    zrtmatos Member

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  20. lbcynya

    lbcynya Feeling the Heat

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    Got mine off of Ebay for $110. Seem to be going for $175-ish now that it's cold. Just make sure it's compatible with your unit since there might be a cutoff point. Only a guess.
  21. P38X2

    P38X2 Minister of Fire

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    I think these questions were answered on the first page.
  22. bill-e

    bill-e New Member

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    Just received my APC BE750G . Plugged it in and tested my brand new XXV (11/2013) and it worked without any adjustments or dip switches.
    Sniz and P38X2 like this.
  23. Sniz

    Sniz Member

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    ^ same here, worked perfectly. Shut the stove off fully did a bit of cleaning then plugged in the UPS for the first time and let it run for a bit.

    Simply unplugged the UPS simulating the power is out, and the stove immediately stopped all function except short bursts of the exhaust to evacuate the smoke. Plugged it back in......resumed normal operation.

    well done Harman
    P38X2 likes this.
  24. P43pig

    P43pig New Member

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    So once it saw "normal" line voltage it went right back to normal operation without a reset or anything.?
  25. Sniz

    Sniz Member

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    Yes correct.....almost immediately too

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