Harman distribution air temp differences between pellets?

[76brian]

I think you answered this one yourself. Room temp vs. stove temp. But what do I know?

I edited my post to add: I normally use room temp though, not stove temp, but this observation of mine, plus the measurements of output on other stoves proves to me that there is most definitely a difference.

Your original post said "especially" in stove temp mode, not "only" in stove temp mode... I see a literal difference there, perhaps that wasn't intended.

 

[ironpony]

O.K. here is the answer................................................
the ESP see's minimun temp to maintain
so when the pellets drop and burn HOTTER they put out more HEAT
until the temp drops enough to call for more pellets
which enter the burn pot and burn HOTTER
till the temp drops to minimun and repeat

you get to keep that ugly avatar
thank you

Based on hours of watching my Harman diagnostic tool, your post is half right. Stove temp sets a TARGET temp, not a minimum temp. The feed rate WILL fluctuate to maintain target temp. So a hotter pellet will result in a lower feed rate to maintain the target temp. The ESP will allow about a 20-30 degree delta from target to high/low. So a target temp of 300 will see ESP temps or around 285 to 315. BTU content of pellet doesn't matter, stove only adjusts based on ESP temp, not BTU.

Now, back to the new avatar...

and if it feeds one rotation of HOTTER burnig pellets and the ESP see's 450 degrees
does it spray water on them to cool them down
no, they burn down to the low end and it stars over again

keep the avatar Johny

My facts vs. you shooting from the hip... I'll let the reader choose who they want to believe. Sorry, 1 auger rotation is barely enough to increase temps more than a handful or two of degrees... Temps will overshoot as I noted, but not by 150 degrees. Geez... We're talking wood here, not dynamite. 8,000 vs 9,000 BTU pellet is based on weight and a single rotation only drops a few ounces, not pounds. That's a 12% increase in overall BTU.

Unless you can come up with hard facts/data vs. your hypothesis, Johnny's avatar is toast.

lbcynya is absolutely correct on this one for Harman stoves. mepellet asked about Harman distribution air temps from different pellets. This is how the Harman operates. Some stoves operate one way and other stoves operate their own way. And this question was asked about Harman stoves so if someone doesn't have a Harman and doesn't know how it operates it looks odd when that same person posts a comment. In other words if you don't know what you are talking about maybe you shouldn't add a comment.

you are correct oh great one
I do have a Harman
and good pellets burn hotter and put more heat out

but what do I know
over and out Johny

 

[mepellet]

I think you answered this one yourself. Room temp vs. stove temp. But what do I know?

I edited my post to add: I normally use room temp though, not stove temp, but this observation of mine, plus the measurements of output on other stoves proves to me that there is most definitely a difference.

Your original post said "especially" in stove temp mode, not "only" in stove temp mode... I see a literal difference there, perhaps that wasn't intended.

True. I should have said only because I have only run my stove in stove temp mode so far.

 

[Trickyrick]

I think you answered this one yourself. Room temp vs. stove temp. But what do I know?

I edited my post to add: I normally use room temp though, not stove temp, but this observation of mine, plus the measurements of output on other stoves proves to me that there is most definitely a difference.

Your original post said "especially" in stove temp mode, not "only" in stove temp mode... I see a literal difference there, perhaps that wasn't intended.

True. I should have said only because I have only run my stove in stove temp mode so far.

It does sound like in Stove temp mode when the system reaches equilibrium the distribution air should be close on a Harmon. From experience in "ROOM TEMP" mode that is NOT the case. NOTE: I only run in room temp so that is what my experience tells me.

I'm curious in stove temp will a hotter pellet give you higher swings in distribution temp and longer burn time per pound and then a cooler pellet be more stable but shorter burn time per pound?

 

[ironpony]

so based on these observations, wait facts
it does not matter what quality pellet you burn in a Harman
the output will always be the same in stove temp
because the ESP works of exhaust temp


might as well buy the cheapest crap pellet out there
wont make any difference in a Harman

 

[Delta-T]

temp measured at the esp is the temp after the air has passed over the heat exchanger (total heat - heat stripped off by heat exchanger = remaining exhaust temp). carry on.

 

[76brian]

so based on these observations, wait facts
it does not matter what quality pellet you burn in a Harman
the output will always be the same in stove temp
because the ESP works of exhaust temp


might as well buy the cheapest crap pellet out there
wont make any difference in a Harman

I'm down with that.

Anyone with one of those "other" stoves wanna trade their Infernos for my Cubex? :lol:

 

[ironpony]

temp measured at the esp is the temp after the air has passed over the heat exchanger (total heat - heat stripped off by heat exchanger = remaining exhaust temp). carry on.

that actually changes the whole discussion
if the pellets burn hotter, more heat can be stripped off
raising distrabution temps
so there is no direct correlation between distrabution temp and ESP temp
of course this is all based on heat exchanger efficiency

 

[johnnycomelately]

Here is the Dilly-Yo! The ESP probe does not moniter temperature for convection distribution. It does moniter temperature extremes, meaning it will sense when the stove turns on and off (sensing a low temp of 170 degrees in the exhaust pipe), and sensing a high temp (replaces the high temp snap disc) of 390 degrees, at which point the stove shuts off.
Any time the Harman stove is in stove mode, you do not get a temp setting like you do in "room temp setting", you get a "feed rate setting" of 1-6. As far as the stove monitering the heat output into the room???....That is done by the thermal probe (The little black wire) that you plug into the back of the stove. So basically, your ESP probe asct as a sensor that turns on the distribution fan when the stove first starts up, and it senses the exhaust to make sure the stove does not overfire. As far as regulating temps inside the house?....IT JUST DOESNT DO THAT!

WHEN YOUR HARMAN IS IN STOVE MODE, it strictly feeds at different settings based on the slide-plate speed, not the temperature. If you turn the stove temp setting up, the feed rate increases, if you turn it down, the feed rate decreases. And on Room temp, the temps are controlled by the thermal probe (Black wire)........

If you give me your address, I will mail you $6 for the bag of good sh*t and you can see for your self. I have run my stove on stove temp setting for ever, and I will tell you that good pellets burn and feel hotter. Now you must decide which of the following is true....
1. Either I am telling you the truth about my Harman, or...
2. I made this whole thing up because I wanted to mess with your skull-f#cked noggin

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

so based on these observations, wait facts
it does not matter what quality pellet you burn in a Harman
the output will always be the same in stove temp
because the ESP works of exhaust temp


might as well buy the cheapest crap pellet out there
wont make any difference in a Harman

I'm down with that.

Anyone with one of those "other" stoves wanna trade their Infernos for my Cubex? :lol:

You wait and I'll have one of the local big boxes send you a trailer load of Infernos, just remember you promised me Cubex I don't want to find out you just swapped the bags and not the contents.

I've never burned Infernos but I have Cubex and still have some always willing to add more to the stash as it keeps OMV rooting in the pellet piles down his way.

 

[76brian]

so based on these observations, wait facts
it does not matter what quality pellet you burn in a Harman
the output will always be the same in stove temp
because the ESP works of exhaust temp


might as well buy the cheapest crap pellet out there
wont make any difference in a Harman

I'm down with that.

Anyone with one of those "other" stoves wanna trade their Infernos for my Cubex? :lol:

You wait and I'll have one of the local big boxes send you a trailer load of Infernos, just remember you promised me Cubex I don't want to find out you just swapped the bags and not the contents.

I've never burned Infernos but I have Cubex and still have some always willing to add more to the stash as it keeps OMV rooting in the pellet piles down his way.

Oh did I forget to mention I also want $5 a bag? Don't complain, that's 25 cents less than I paid!

This is going to severely cripple my chances making it past 60 bags without a cleaning... :lol:

 

[lbcynya]

temp measured at the esp is the temp after the air has passed over the heat exchanger (total heat - heat stripped off by heat exchanger = remaining exhaust temp). carry on.

that actually changes the whole discussion
if the pellets burn hotter, more heat can be stripped off
raising distrabution temps
so there is no direct correlation between distrabution temp and ESP temp
of course this is all based on heat exchanger efficiency

The efficiency of the heat exchanger is fixed... Pellet BTU and combustion fan speed are the 2 main variables. Hotter pellets will result in a higher ESP temp, thus causing the stove to vary feed to meet target temp. If Inferno and Cubex are the same price, you will get more heat (in Harman's case based on total burn time )for your money with Cubex based on their higher BTU. I've burned most of them.

This whole discussion has more to do with how a Harman (vs others) works, it's not a debate about buying the highest BTU pellet for the best price. Making heat and saving money IS THE GOAL.

 

[johnnycomelately]

Oh did I forget to mention I also want $5 a bag? Don't complain, that's 25 cents less than I paid!

This is going to severely cripple my chances making it past 60 bags without a cleaning... :lol:

Yeah...but just put the stove on Stove Temp mode and you'll still be toasty effin' warm! So easy.

 

[76brian]

If you give me your address, I will mail you $6 for the bag of good sh*t and you can see for your self.

Haha.. he might prefer you just keep the six bucks and change your avatar instead

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Oh did I forget to mention I also want $5 a bag? Don't complain, that's 25 cents less than I paid!

This is going to severely cripple my chances making it past 60 bags without a cleaning... :lol:

Yeah...but just put the stove on Stove Temp mode and you'll still be toasty effin' warm! So easy.

Yup, right up until the stove explodes due to excessive ash in the works trying to make the temperature set point.

It likely isn't going to be pretty.

Brian, sorry you are backpedaling on the deal it is canceled.

 

[76brian]

Brian, sorry you are backpedaling on the deal it is canceled.

Oh man... I think I'm leaving for a while. I'll need some time to recover from this massive heart break.

 

[76brian]

Ok, all better now.

 

[johnnycomelately]

Gentlemen, we had a great thread going here. Let's let this die and all be friends again. Sound good?

 

[mepellet]

Gentlemen, we had a great thread going here. Let's let this die and all be friends again. Sound good?

Are we just agreeing to disagree then? I still think that the distribution air temperature remains relatively the same with different pellets when burning in stove temp mode on a Harman stove.

 

[lbcynya]

Gentlemen, we had a great thread going here. Let's let this die and all be friends again. Sound good?

Are we just agreeing to disagree then? I still think that the distribution air temperature remains relatively the same with different pellets when burning in stove temp mode on a Harman stove.

No, facts are facts. Harman stoves run differently than other stoves. So, long story short, what J-Takeman graciously (pellet comparisons) has done with his Enviro would not be as relevant if done with a Harman and ESP control of the feed rate.

Also, I use J-T's data to determine what I buy because ash, fines, btu, price all matter. We want the cleanest, cheapest, highest BTU pellet whether we run Quad's, Enviro's, Harman's, and every other stove.

So, if you use a premium pellet or a crap pellet, running stove temp will yield about the same distribution air temperature because the stove will feed more crap pellets to achieve the target temperature. Hotter pellets will have about the same distribution air temperature, but you go longer between fills since the stove cuts back the feed rate.

Now, we have to get you off Stove Temp and fine the comfort of Room Temp. Read my sig's, that's all I know about that...

 

[superchips]

I used to buy by the ton, but have found that for me it is easier to buy ~10 bags at a time. I'll pick up a few, then if I like them I'll pick up a bunch on the way back from work.
2 or 3 times a season I'll borrow my freinds van and pick up 30 or so for stock.

I just don't have enough dry space to store them.

Because of this, I make it a good point not to buy them after a big storm and always check them out. You should get real good at realizing the pellets condition when you pick up the bags. If the bags are moist or don't stay stiff enough when you first pull them from the pile - don't buy them. And never have employees pack them for you.
Good luck