harman p61 manual lighting stove, 400 bucks off

[ad356]

went to the local harman dealer today. he had a manual lighting p61 on clerence. he wanted $2,850 for the stove. is that a good deal? i think the p61 would probably be adaquate for my 1,500 sq ft. home. he said that the stove was brand new but was a model that was being discountinued being that it is a manually lighted unit. one of the questions i have is since it is manually lighted i know that it cannot shut it's self down and restart itself during mild weather. how much does that waste in pellets. also i wondered if the harman stoves are more efficient than my current us stove 5510. could i expect a better stove to pay me back by burning less (wasting less) pellets. can i expect a p61 to provide enough heat to fully heat my 1,500 sq ft home that was built in 1895? my home has recieved many recent updates including modern windows, insulation in all of the outside walls, and insulation in the attic. my walls have been insulated BUT it is limited on how much insulation i can put in the walls. it is a plank built home and doesnt have very deep pockets inside the walls.

i would have liked to have a p68 but they are just too much money. i have also thought about coal but the price of coal locally is now 309 per ton making pellets currently more economical. im also afraid that coal might be more dirty and i realize that i would have to deal with allot more ash.

oh, one more thing. my wife would like trim on the stove but at $400 its allot of money for the fancy trim that will not make the stove perform better. why is the trim so much money?

 

[rickwai]

depending on the price diff, I would get the auto ignition. I have a Harman p-38. It is not that easy to start. My st Criox lites much easier, Pellets , gel, throw a match in and go to work. The Harman I have to lite it w/ door open and fan on for about 5-10 min then shut door and hope it stays going. Sounds like w/ your set up you wont have to worry about wasting pellets during the time the tstat is not calling for heat. p61 should throw plenty of heat for your place. The only time you will probably need to shut stove down and lite it frequently will be spring and fall. Auto ignition would be nice but is it worth the 800.00 difference or what ever it is?

 

[aaronnoel]

with all the updates in your home a p61 will keep you warm. As far as saving on pellets, I don't know, my thought is no it won't save on pellets but it will warm your house nicely. I would think that the stove not having a igniter may make it burn more pellets, when a p68 or p61a are cycled to off yours would still be sipping pellets in room temp mode. For winter that won't matter as my stove never turns off in the cold of winter, but spring and fall are warmer and thats when you may waste some pellets if you leave your stove running. As a note a herd that some hand sanitizer's work well as stating gel, you may wan't to check into that, that would save you $ on stove gel.

 

[gfreek]

Hey ad356, was that at Morg's or King Bros. Again I think the manual light would be the deal breaker.

 

[76brian]

Go for a P43, way more than enough for your 1500sq ft. It's about the same price as that P61, but it is automatic

 

[silverfox103]

The Harman I have to lite it w/ door open and fan on for about 5-10 min then shut door and hope it stays going.

Rick if it is taking you 5 to 10 minutes to light the P38, you're not doing it right. I have a P68 and has real hesitant to buy the P38, but for $500 used, I couldn't refuse.

It takes less than a minute to start the fire: quick clean out of the burn pot, throw some pellets in, turn the stove on, light with propane torch. Shut the door and you're done. No gel or hand cleaner necessary. Piece of cake!


ad356, as for getting a P61 without automatic ignition, I think I would pass when buying one new. It would be like going to an auto dealer and noticing a brand new car, in the back of the lot, that has been there forever. Upon closer inspection you realize why it's there: no power windows and no AC.


Tom C

 

[DexterDay]

The Harman I have to lite it w/ door open and fan on for about 5-10 min then shut door and hope it stays going.

Rick if it is taking you 5 to 10 minutes to light the P38, you're not doing it right. I have a P68 and has real hesitant to buy the P38, but for $500 used, I couldn't refuse.

It takes less than a minute to start the fire: quick clean out of the burn pot, throw some pellets in, turn the stove on, light with propane torch. Shut the door and you're done. No gel or hand cleaner necessary. Piece of cake!


ad356, as for getting a P61 without automatic ignition, I think I would pass when buying one new. It would be like going to an auto dealer and noticing a brand new car, in the back of the lot, that has been there forever. Upon closer inspection you realize why it's there: no power windows and no AC.


Tom C

Yep. No gel's or hand sanitizers.. Just a good Propane Torch here. Learned that trick from Snowy Rivers here. Works like a charm. 30 seconds and done, door is closed, and stove is producing.

 

[ad356]

i look at it this way. i have a us stove 5510 which i have had for 3 years. the ignitor did even last one winter. i have been manually lighting that stove for almost 2 years now. i have not bothered to replace the ignitor, they are a poor design and nearly every one of the 5510 ignitors fail. so im well versed in manially lighting a pellet stove. drop a fair amount of jell, light it, wait for the flame to start burning from orange to blue, close the door and its really to burn. the price difference between the current model and this stove is almost $670, so it is quite a bit. problem is im always looking for a "deal", i'm cheap and want to save money.

the reason i dont think that a p43 is enough heat is that the pelllet stove will be my primary source of heat. my current stove is 48,000 btu and is barely enough when it gets into the single digits and colder in jan/feb. i dont know if my current stove gets its rated btu but in the past i have a hard time keeping the house in the low 60's when its that cold out. of course that was before recent insulation and windows. i very well might be better now, but it is hard to tell since i havent had could enough temps yet. i do think with a p61 i would in no doubt in my mind have more that enough heat. i dont want to buy something only to find out later that its no better than what i replaced. i dont want my wife feeling she's cold when its extremely cold outside.

 

[DexterDay]

i look at it this way. i have a us stove 5510 which i have had for 3 years. the ignitor did even last one winter. i have been manually lighting that stove for almost 2 years now. i have not bothered to replace the ignitor, they are a poor design and nearly every one of the 5510 ignitors fail. so im well versed in manially lighting a pellet stove. drop a fair amount of jell, light it, wait for the flame to start burning from orange to blue, close the door and its really to burn. the price difference between the current model and this stove is almost $670, so it is quite a bit. problem is im always looking for a "deal", i'm cheap and want to save money.

the reason i dont think that a p43 is enough heat is that the pelllet stove will be my primary source of heat. my current stove is 48,000 btu and is barely enough when it gets into the single digits and colder in jan/feb. i dont know if my current stove gets its rated btu but in the past i have a hard time keeping the house in the low 60's when its that cold out. of course that was before recent insulation and windows. i very well might be better now, but it is hard to tell since i havent had could enough temps yet. i do think with a p61 i would in no doubt in my mind have more that enough heat. i dont want to buy something only to find out later that its no better than what i replaced. i dont want my wife feeling she's cold when its extremely cold outside.

If its in the budget. Then I say P61 all the way. But comparing a US Stove 48,000 to the Harman P43 is Apples to Oranges. Nothing against US Stove, but Harmans heat exchange system is leaps and bounds above US's. Your looking at input BTU's. The big difference is output BTU. Your stove now, may make 48,000 (6 lbs an hr feedrate) BTU but if its has a low efficiency, you may only be getting 25,000-30,000 BTU out of it.

The P43 would prob fit the bill for the situation. You have buttoned up the house and made it more efficient. If the cost is the same and you dont mind the ignitor, then go for it. The P61 may be slight overkill, but you can always turn a big stove down, where a little stove can only go up so far.

Harman's are a fantastic stove. Plenty of heat and fairly simple to operate.

 

[76brian]

the reason i dont think that a p43 is enough heat is that the pelllet stove will be my primary source of heat. my current stove is 48,000 btu and is barely enough when it gets into the single digits and colder in jan/feb.

Well I'm not sure about January and February yet, but I'm not too worried about it. It's been -10C here a couple of nights and I can make my house much warmer than I can stand. I'm heating just over 1000 square feet, and I don't have any other heat source. My house is also 100 years old, but there is no insulation in the walls or crawlspace at all. The stove is rated for a house twice the size of ours, and you have insulation and modern windows... I don't think you'd have a problem, especially since you already have a stove and you've probably already figured out the most effective way of distributing the heat. I'm still working on that.

I don't blame you for wanting to be more safe than sorry, but if you're going to drop a few grand on a brand new stove, you're way better off to get a current model. If I had to do it again, I'd probably get a M55 cast or a XXV. Just for the classic looks.

 

[ad356]

so the us stove probably is wasting pellets by having to dump more into the fire to get the same amount of heat that a harman would get with less pellets? the us stove doesnt really even have a heat exchanger, it more or less just catches the heat, it doesnt have heat exchanger tubes. for 1,000 bucks its cheap but it does work and it was cheaper than running the old monster in the basement. now i prefer pellets because i think wood heat is a much better heat than gas.

 

[gfreek]

If you are used to manual lighting then go for it. Maybe you can get it for cheaper or throw in 1/2 or ton of pellets. How much retro fit are going to have to do on venting??

 

[ad356]

venting should be the same PL class vent that i have now. i have a 3" simpson duravent setup. i might have to move the hole through the wall but that should be about it. i would have to buy a 2nd simpson duravent PL kit to hook the US 5510 in the garage. that is the plan, i want pellet heat in my barn so its warm when i go in there to work. that kerosene price is to high for my liking. originally i thought i would buy a 2nd US stove for the barn since they are fairly cheap but then i thought i would be better off upgrading my home to a better unit. the 5510 will be nice in the barn but i'm just not thrilled with it in the house. im hoping that a good harman would last me 20 years, i consider them to be the best on the market. the best burnpot, the best pellet feed system, and the best heat exchanger. when you look at pellet stove btu ratings the harman are always the hottest burning stoves. im hoping that it would also be more efficient and maybe save me some $$$ in the long run.

 

[rickwai]

The Harman I have to lite it w/ door open and fan on for about 5-10 min then shut door and hope it stays going.

Rick if it is taking you 5 to 10 minutes to light the P38, you're not doing it right. I have a P68 and has real hesitant to buy the P38, but for $500 used, I couldn't refuse.

It takes less than a minute to start the fire: quick clean out of the burn pot, throw some pellets in, turn the stove on, light with propane torch. Shut the door and you're done. No gel or hand cleaner necessary. Piece of cake!


ad356, as for getting a P61 without automatic ignition, I think I would pass when buying one new. It would be like going to an auto dealer and noticing a brand new car, in the back of the lot, that has been there forever. Upon closer inspection you realize why it's there: no power windows and no AC.


Tom C

Yep. No gel's or hand sanitizers.. Just a good Propane Torch here. Learned that trick from Snowy Rivers here. Works like a charm. 30 seconds and done, door is closed, and stove is producing.

I am going to have to try that..........

 

[gfreek]

hoping that a good harman would last me 20 years, i consider them to be the best on the market. the best burnpot, the best pellet feed system, and the best heat exchanger. when you look at pellet stove btu ratings the harman are always the hottest burning stoves. im hoping that it would also be more efficient and maybe save me some $$$ in the long run

[/quote]

Harman is a good stove. But they all are going to have some type of issue IMO. Did they show you how to maintain and clean it, length of different warranties, self install affect the warranty, was it running in the showroom? Pre burn? Mine does on all. My auger motor had to be replaced 2 months after install. The home service call was great from my dealer, had one in stock on truck.

 

[Lousyweather]

I dont believe the price is all that good for a unit that has been discontinued for 2 years or so. The P61A is still produced, and should be in the low $3k range for sale, new, and it lights itself, not to mention an updated ultralight feeder assembly, etc.

I burn an 11 year old P61, and its heated my 2000 square foot colonial for 10 years now, all of my heat, 5 tons per year useage. I think it'll heat your space, but I question the price of an obsolete unit then it comes to within 400 bucks of a new, autoigniting one.

 

[ad356]

the p61 is allot more than 400 bucks off, actually its $3,500 so i saved roughly $700. it came to 3,100 after taxes which is less than the p61a is before taxes. i can deal with manually lighting the stove and much less frequently than i do now. the stove i use now has a crappy ignition unit and it failed in the first heating season. the us stove isnt known for a quality ignition element so i didnt bother to replace it. i have to clean this stove at least once a week which means a full shut down considering the way the ash doors dont seal forcing them to be sealed shut with rtv in order to get a good burn. im hoping this harman i just purchased is as good as everyone says it is. i just couldnt bring myself to spend an additional $700 just for the sake of not needing to light it manually, something that i consider to be extremely easy and something i have been doing as a routine for the last 3 years. it will be nice to have the 5510 in the garage (nice heat in a smaller space than the house) and the really nice harman in the house. the stove will arrive tuesday. oh, yeah and the dealer was king brothers in north java. they are less than 10 minutes from my house which will make it easy for me if it ever needs parts or service.

 

[76brian]

the p61 is allot more than 400 bucks off, actually its $3,500 so i saved roughly $700. it came to 3,100 after taxes which is less than the p61a is before taxes. i can deal with manually lighting the stove and much less frequently than i do now. the stove i use now has a crappy ignition unit and it failed in the first heating season. the us stove isnt known for a quality ignition element so i didnt bother to replace it. i have to clean this stove at least once a week which means a full shut down considering the way the ash doors dont seal forcing them to be sealed shut with rtv in order to get a good burn. im hoping this harman i just purchased is as good as everyone says it is. i just couldnt bring myself to spend an additional $700 just for the sake of not needing to light it manually, something that i consider to be extremely easy and something i have been doing as a routine for the last 3 years. it will be nice to have the 5510 in the garage (nice heat in a smaller space than the house) and the really nice harman in the house. the stove will arrive tuesday. oh, yeah and the dealer was king brothers in north java. they are less than 10 minutes from my house which will make it easy for me if it ever needs parts or service.

I don't see how you "saved" any money at all. A P43 which is a new and current model would have cost you the same. Instead, you spent the same money and got an old outdated and discontinued model.

Whatever, it's your money. It will serve you well I'm sure.

 

[gfreek]

Ok. Good luck with the stove. I got mine at Morg's. Sounds like you did OK. Should have plenty of heat.....

 

[ad356]

i dont want to spend the money on a p43 and decide after its already paid for that it does not heat adequately. i know that a p61 will provide more than enough heat no matter how cold it gets outside. the pellet stove is my primary source of heat and a p61 will be enough heat even if the house grows. the way my home was built i could easily expand it to over 2,000 sq ft by turning attic space into living space. i also dont think that comparing a p43 to a p61 is a fair comparison since the p61 will produce quite a bit more heat. i was comparing the price of a p61 to the p61a. as i said before i dont care if i have to light it, i save money vs. a p61a. i dont see how a p61 will be a bad or more cheaply built stove

 

[aaronnoel]

you did fine, and you will be warm with this stove and thats all that matters, good luck!

 

[PJPellet]

you did fine, and you will be warm with this stove and thats all that matters, good luck!

X2 I Love the Harman P series. That P61 will treat you well.

 

[DexterDay]

To each there. As long as the OP felt he got a good deal, thats all that matters... I know my savings on some things can be better or are a greatly reduced rate. Either way, if I save, I feel I have Won!

So Congratulations ad356. The P-61 is gonna be like having 2 or 3 of your US Stove's, side by side. Of course now we need Pics. Of both installs. The new home for the USSC and then the Harman.

 

[kmuenchow]

I just paid $2,700 + tax for my P61A in metro denver, co area (includes the $100 off coupon you can download from Harman website).

Took a bit of negotiation (several trips to the store) & a "sale event". I found out tyhat each Harman deealer has a contract with Harman that includes their purchase price (wholesale) as well as a gauranteed delivery schedule - the dealers get a better price ftrom Harman the more units they agree to accept delivery on through the year (for each model).

so, the pricing can be very different from one dealer to another, based on how much profit, volume, &tc;.

Also, my deal came with a crappy provision that I would have to pay $100 for ANY warranty visit...

MY advice is be VERY selective about who you buy Harman from - the dealer/installer is your only avenue - Harman WILL NOT TALK TO YOU - they ONLY work through their dealers. If the dealer is not the best - you're screwed!

This business model that Harman uses (dealers only for everything) is almost bad enough that it balances out how much better their stoves are & makes customers look at their competitors!

 

[briansol]

I couldn't imagine not having an ignition. Thats worth $400 to me, easy.