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Heat & Glow IPI6000 Burner Does Not Go On

Post in 'It's a Gas!' started by Pilke, Nov 4, 2009.

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  1. Pilke

    Pilke New Member

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    We have a Heat & Glow IPI 6000 series fireplace. The pilot ignites but the valve does not open to turn the burner on. Called for repair and was told to replace the pilot assembly. We tried this - no change, still just the small pilot flame when the fireplace is turned on. Any ideas?

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  2. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    what model? 6000G, 6000GL, 6000C, etc....?

    Replacing the pilot would be one of my last suspicions. The IPI system needs to be troubleshot by someone who understands how it works (probably few and far between).

    Need more details.

    After the pilot lights, does the ignitor continue to spark or does it stop sparking?
    If you leave it alone does the pilot remain lit indefinatly or does it go out after 60 seconds or so?

    Before leaving the pilot go with no burner lighting I would make certian there is no gas coming out of the burner. Either take the glass off or diconnect the green wire from the vavle. If there was gas coming out of the burner but just not igniting right away you could get a boom after a little bit.

    Really, you should have a pro come look at it, not sure why this dealer is suggesting you service it yourself. Unless you wanted to service it yourself, in which case they should have told you that it could be many things and don't know whats wrong with it unless someone looks at it.
  3. Pilke

    Pilke New Member

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    The model is 6000TR-OAK-IPI, they did not tell me to service it myself, they were just giving me suggestions, they have a 45 day waiting period right now, and that is along time. The pilot starts sparking and ignites and then stops sparking and then lights the pilot and never lights the burner, there is no gas coming into the burner. My understanding is that the igniter lights and heats up the thermopile and as soon as that gets hot enough, it sends a electrical sginal to igniter module and the sends a elctrical signal to burner valve and tells the burner valve to open and lights the burner. I beleive that is how it works. I performed troubleshooting in my manual and that sent me on a electrical goose chase on checking all the wiring and all look ok, so I beleive the module or burner valve are bad. I do not know and cannot wait 45 days, it is kind of cold and they want 250.00 just to come look at it (250.00 for no repairs just diag) i can replace alot of parts for 250.00... I am looking for any help I can get, THANKS
  4. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    If you leave it alone does the pilot remain lit indefinitely or does it go out after 60 seconds or so?

    From what you are saying the pilot should stay on.

    FYI there is no thermocouple. The IPI system works with flame rectification. Found this random article searching: http://contractingbusiness.com/feature/cb_imp_13002/

    There are tons more if you search "flame rectification"

    First I would check the black ground wire coming from the green module harness, make sure it is in tact and secure.

    So... anyway. Next thing to test would be to disconnect the green wire from the valve. Set your multimeter to DC 20 and connect the red to the green wire, and black to a ground on the fireplace body. Now, when the pilot is lit and the ignitor stops sparking the module should send 3 volts DC to the green wire. If it does, you should hook it back to the valve while keeping the meter connected, at this point it should drop to 1.5V while under load.

    If you get no voltage at all, the green module is possibly bad, if you do get voltage but no drop on the valve, the valve regulator coil may be bad. You can replace the just the regulator, part NGK-DXV for natural gas. If you get a drop on the valve but still no gas flow, valve could be blocked somehow, might have to replace the entire valve. Could also just be a spider nest in the supply line.

    Also just thought I should mention, yes you can buy some parts for $250 and service it yourself (not a lot though, pilot you already wasted money on was prob $50). You could also do something wrong, bypass some softy system, and blow your house and family up.
  5. Pilke

    Pilke New Member

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    THANK YOU, I see what you are saying about the danger, i am just trying to repair as fast and as inexpensive as possible but be safe, i do not want to hurt anyone or my family, have 2.9 volts at green wire at valve, and 1.4 when on valve, i have a lp system, do you think there could be spider web in there causing that much of a restriction, the pilot just stays lit and never goes out unless flipping the wall switch, also the black ground wire goes to wall switch and back of valve knob, i do not see a part number form the lp system
  6. Pilke

    Pilke New Member

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    i have 2.9 volts at green wire and when installing it on valve it drops to 1.4 volts, but still no propane coming to burner, then it is either blocked or valve is faulty, could the valve be clogged, tanks for all your input, i really appreciate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Does all this info mean module is ok and ground seems to intact and ok
  7. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    Yes green module is OK.

    My first bet would be a spider nest in the line.
    Easy way to check would be to crack the supply line just after the valve, if gas starts coming out of there after the pilot stops sparking then you have a plugged line.
    If that's the case you have to remove the burner and then the supply line, run a wire through it and clean out the line and burner air shutter area really well.
    I have seen them plugged up so bad that NO gas could get through, which is exactly what you are getting.
  8. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    I'd pull the burner & remove the brass burner orifice. You'll need a 1/2 wrench or deep socket to do this.
    Shine a light into the gas line behind where the orifice came off & if you see what looks like a
    white diaphragm in the tube, that's the spider nest. I'd use a Q-Tip to clear it. Stick it in there &
    give it a twist & the entire nest will come out.
  9. Pilke

    Pilke New Member

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    After removing the burner and removing piping from the valve to the orfice, I did not find any spider web or blockage, it was completely clean, then i hooked it all back up and nothing happened again, just the pilot just kept burning, so I guess my next step would be a new valve part #750-501 , unless anyone else might have another idea, but I do not see any other problem except the valve is not opening to allow propane to the burner, orfice was completely clean and piping was too......??????????? I am so frustrated right now, I have worked on cars for 19 years and have never been this frustrated, so I guess I will wait for feedback....THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  10. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    OK...No spiders...
    Don't replace the valve, yet.
    The regulator may be on its way out.
    Take a screwdriver & rap the regulator with the plastic handle
    & see if the burner comes on...
    I know, it's a "stone age" technique, but it just may work...
    If it does, that'll tell you it's the regulator...
  11. Pilke

    Pilke New Member

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    That worked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Does that mean that it work for now and may go out tomorrow? Or will it work for a while?
  12. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    Yea, Baybeeee!
    I'd say give it a shot for awhile & see if it was a one-time occurrence.
    If it continues to act up, replace the regulator head.
    You'll need a tamper-proof torx bit to remove & install...
  13. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    Daksy, thanks for that one. I usually do that out of habit, but I was just not thinking about it on this thread for some reason. I have found on those DEX regulators the tiny little wires inside can come un-soildered, I actually ran home and fixed one once in a pinch, still working as far as I know. So the wire is loose, and if you tap it it makes contact again. Next time a heavy footed person walks by it might loose contact. The little flapper could have just been jammed up also, may or may not fail again in that case.
  14. thomasw98

    thomasw98 New Member

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    Where are you getting parts for DIY repairs? I have the same fireplace and I know exactly what part needs to be replaced, but no idea how to buy these parts without have an expensive repair guy come out and do the work.

    By the way, congrats on the good result of your line of questioning in this thread. "Hit it with a hammer" seems to still be one of the best methods for fixing things! :-D
  15. marbribro

    marbribro New Member

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    I asked around at the local hardware stores and found out that most thermocouples and thermopiles are standard. I purchased both from amazon.com at a much cheaper price than the company specializing in fireplace parts that I searched for online. It was not too dificult to dismantle and install both parts. There was a point though I wondered if I was in over my head, but it did go back together fine. I am still fighting the problem. The thermocouple obviously needed replaced. I suspect that my wall switch is the next item to check. (Based on the responses of others to my post.) It will light some times and not others. Good luck to you.
  16. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    www.heatnglo.com
    Find your nearest dealer. Call them and tell them the parts you want to order.
    If you are really in a pinch we could ship them from WI I suppose.
  17. thomasw98

    thomasw98 New Member

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    Fiddled around with my 6000TR-OAK-IPI Heat-n-Glom fireplace today and figured out the problem is with the valve not closing properly (which leaves the pilot burning constantly...on my IPI system, it should go off whenever the fire is turned off). Turns out that valve is only available from Heat-n-Rob for an exorbitant price...hmmm, one gets the impression that these fireplaces are built to break down so the manufacturer can make hordes of money selling parts. I tried to buy the same valve from the original valve manufacturer, Denex (name is embossed on the side of the valve), and what a surprise, this item is sold exclusively to Heat-n-Screw, so I could not buy it directly from Denex.

    No choice but to pay the price and have one of their distributors supply the part and install it. Live and learn. Suggest anyone considering installing a gas fireplace check on the price of the key parts in advance of making final supplier decision.

    Corporate wags, spare me the "avoid litigation" excuse. I am very familiar with the law, and if you think this excuse holds any water, then you, sir, are not familiar enough...or maybe you are just makin' excuses to burn poor consumers on the spare parts? I remember another industry that played that same game for years, and look what happened to them. (hint: American car manufacturers). Suggest we all go short on fireplace stocks.
  18. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    Sometimes the pilot head can be remove and tweaked a little, its getting stuck open. Could fix the problem without replacing the valve, you need a tamper proof torx #20 though. The DEX valves do not fail very often, they have been very reliable for us. With the amount of IPI fireplaces we install I would say the failure rate is well below 1%. We have been installing exclusively IPI fireplaces for all models that have it available for the past 4 years.

    I assume that if you have a multifunction wall control you already checked to make sure you don't have the pilot mode turned on?
  19. DAKSY

    DAKSY Patriot Guard Rider Staff Member

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    Some HnG IPI units come with a separate pilot control, the "Cold Climate
    Switch," which is used to keep the pilot running in colder temperatures.
    This keeps the box relatively warm & may eliminate the convention drafts.
    You sure your unit doesn't have one? If you do, it can be on the multifunction
    switch - like JTP1018 indicated, or underneath the unit - on the valve bracket.
    It's a rocker type switch with a small snowflake depicted alongside it.
  20. thomasw98

    thomasw98 New Member

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    Thanks for the technical suggestions, but I think my troubleshooting narrowed the problem down to the valve. What I did was:

    With fireplace fire off and pilot light burning (it should not be burning on an IPI system):
    a. I unplugged all electrical power to the fireplace. Pilot light stayed on.
    b. After plugging everything back in, I pulled off the orange power wire to the valve. Pilot light stayed on.
    c. After replacing the orange power wire, I tapped the valve with a wrench. Pilot light went out immediately. This could be replicated over and over again.
  21. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    Yeap the pilot head is getting stuck. As I said, sometimes it can be repaired if you can figure out why its getting stuck, but usually a new valve is needed. For some reason they don't sell just the pilot head and say the part is not serviceable, even though you can just take it right off with the right screw driver. Maybe you can find a dealer who has saved an old valve with a good pilot head willing to sell it? Dealing with these fireplaces for 4-5 years, I have only seen this pilot head sticking problem a few times.
  22. thomasw98

    thomasw98 New Member

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    Will check it out. Thanks for the input!
  23. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    I noticed this morning I have two valves sitting in my office that were replaced on showroom models. I am pretty sure the pilot heads are still good. Let me know if you need one and I could test it on a display model and ship it. You do need a Tamper Proof Torx #20 though.
  24. thomasw98

    thomasw98 New Member

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    The guy I hired to fix it has already ordered the part and will receive it tomorrow, so I should probably let him finish the job. If something unforeseen happens, I will let you know. Thanks!
  25. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    If he is able to "order" just that pilot head, it would be interesting to know where from. We have a good relationship with Heat & Glo and have been told its not a saleable part from them or the vendor.
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