1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)

Here we go again with this burn ban crap

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Elderthewelder, Jan 2, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Elderthewelder

    Elderthewelder Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Messages:
    644
    Loc:
    Everett, Washington
    It is 29 degree's outside and I am not suppose to be burning as a Stage 2 burn ban in effect for Snohomish and Pierce counties, stage 1 in effect in King and Kitsap.

    we were in a stage 1 yesterday so it was ok for me to burn, I just looked today and they bumped it to stage 2, I have had a fire going pretty much 24/7 all week as we have been way colder than normal, I ain't going to put it out that is for sure

    http://www.pscleanair.org/airq/status.aspx

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    Messages:
    6,207
    Loc:
    Carver, MA.
    I would think that a properly run EPA stove with dry wood wouldn't pollute anymore than an oil furnace would.. That really is a bunch of crap and glad we don't have to deal with that here..

    Ray
  3. OhioBurner©

    OhioBurner© Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2010
    Messages:
    947
    Loc:
    Central Ohio
    Yeah if I can keep a good burn going you'd never even tell by looking at the chimney that its fired up. Maybe everyone should turn on there non polluting electric heat, you know, that heat provided by coal powerplants...
  4. argus66

    argus66 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Messages:
    458
    Loc:
    central coastal nj
    ya those bans are b.s,,, plus if they are driving around in a car checking chimney pipes its polluting more then 10 wood stoves. whats the point in giving the tax incentive only to tell people they cant burn.
  5. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    27,815
    Loc:
    Michigan
    Whoa. That sounds nasty. One more reason I love living way out in the country.
  6. NH_Wood

    NH_Wood Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2009
    Messages:
    2,602
    Loc:
    southern NH
    Are you supposed to check the status of the ban everyday? Crazy! Cheers!
  7. rottiman

    rottiman Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,102
    Loc:
    Ontario Canada
    Gotta love all them "TREE HUGGERS" who get to decide whats good and not good for everybody else..............................................
  8. argus66

    argus66 Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Messages:
    458
    Loc:
    central coastal nj
    i am a tree huger and i hate the burn ban.
  9. robertmcw

    robertmcw Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    130
    Loc:
    Texas
    The site says:

    Stage 2. During a Stage 2 burn ban:

    •No burning is allowed in any fireplace, pellet stove or wood stove (certified or not), unless it is your only adequate source of heat.



    Do you have any other source heat?


    What if your heater breaks? Do the cops check broken heaters?



    Robert
  10. Elderthewelder

    Elderthewelder Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Messages:
    644
    Loc:
    Everett, Washington
    Yes, I have a nat gas forced air furnace, I am running it right now. I would prefer to run my wood insert as it is 25 degree's out right now according to the thermometer in my backyard. I guess if the furnace was broken i could legally burn wood

    I do not think anyone actually drives around and look to see if people are burning, they rely on neighbors or other people to rat you out, but according to the website the person ratting you out must give their name and the info is public record, so i do not think many people actually do it

    When I found out we were in stage 2 last night I switched from cord wood to North Idaho fire logs as they burn a little cleaner, I try to keep some of these on hand, especially when it is really cold out

    It seams we get these bans once or twice every season, they usually only last a few days or so until the weather pattern changes and some wind blows in from off shore, we have been stuck in a cold snap most of the week with weather coming out of the northeast from Canada, not our usual winds from the west off the pacific, but we are suppose to get back to normal in a couple days

    I am going to fire up the insert pretty soon and take my chances as the furnace has been running from about 5AM, I have a few fire logs left
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    49,692
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    We're not hit by the ban yet, but I have stopped using the Jotul in the greenhouse since you posted. It's a lot dirtier the T6. Good thought on burning the Idaho logs. They burn quite cleanly. Normally I watch the air to the north and south and pay attention to the smell. Currently I see Mt Baker very clearly at 90+ miles to the north and the brown haze of wood smoke is not hovering over Seattle. When it does happen, you can smell it in the air and we stop burning unless it's bitter cold.
  12. JustWood

    JustWood Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,525
    Loc:
    Arrow Bridge,NY
    Is there really that many wood burners on the west coast or is it due to thermals?
  13. RoseRedHoofbeats

    RoseRedHoofbeats Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    369
    Loc:
    Salt Lake Valley, UT
    We get burn bans all the time here in Salt Lake City- the valley makes a nice bowl that traps all the car exhaust and industrial smog when there's a high pressure cell over the valley. I'm only about 18 miles west of the Wasatch Mountains and sometimes it's so thick I can't even see them. Driving up in the canyons when it's like that is like driving through fog.

    You are however allowed to burn if it's your main source of heat. So that's something.

    ~Rose
  14. RNLA

    RNLA Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    762
    The burn ban is really for the neighbors who would like to have something to BMW about. I see a few of the old timers in our area who still use their smoke dragons and it pisses me off to no end. I also get some neighbors, who know I burn, asking me "What will you do, don't you know there is a burn ban?" They look up at the chimney and there is nothing but a heat wave.... I ask "Well what do you think about the fire I have going right now?" Nothing but silence. So I guess if we do not piss off the neighbors they might leave us alone. Also if we as a community of wood burners stay away from burning crap we are not supposed to it might help. Then again it is the uneducated and unskilled who ^%$&** things up for those who do it right....
  15. Renovation

    Renovation New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,087
    Loc:
    SW MI near Saugatuck
    Individualist that I am, the rules actually look pretty reasonable to me. I nosed around the site, and here are the ban rules:

    So burning is allowed even when the air is polluted, as long as it's your main heat source and you burn clean.

    I'm not big on government interference, but this seems fair and neighborly to me. Beside, if you're burning clear, who's to know? :)

    I looked at the air quality cam on the site, and did not realize that Seattle had such brown air. Seems like a good place to burn clean.
  16. Renovation

    Renovation New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,087
    Loc:
    SW MI near Saugatuck
    I'm not sure if it's the same up north, but in San Francisco and LA the problem is a thermal pattern that traps a bubble of air, and then moves that same bubble offshore at night and inland during the day, as the land cools and heats. Sort of like God's washing machine. It was perfect air conditioning, before we added our own pollution to the mix.
  17. RNLA

    RNLA Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    762
    Yes Seattle can get kinda ugly with smog. A big contributor to this is all the frigin cars, me included. They usually go for the big visible offenders, like wood burners and in the summer the people who use gas power lawn mowers. We are just a bunch of criminals for trying to stay warm or whatever is next... Sure the rules seem fairly benign until they affect you. Yeah I am workin on getting my home to be energy efficient by insulating and putting in windows but until I finish it is @#$^$#%&$ COLD in here!
  18. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    49,692
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Both. Woodstoves are big out here and lots of wood and engineers too. That's why so many companies are located here. The main population region of Puget Sound lives in between two high mountain ranges (>10,000 ft) that can trap air between them when conditions are right.
  19. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    49,692
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Just happened to take this telephoto picture this morning, looking north to Mt. Baker, 90+ miles away. Seattle is in the foreground about 30 miles away. What brown air?

    Attached Files:

  20. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    9,431
    Loc:
    base of Mt. Rainier on the wet side, WA
    It is all fine and reasonable IF they didn't happen all the time. See the trigger for calling a burn ban was slashed to a super low level last year and now we get frequent burn bans. Further, the regulators decided that burning should be banned by county so even though Seattle is smoggy the folks way out in the mountains can't burn. You need to realize that our counties are huge and range hundreds of miles across.

    So when some yahoo in the city decides it is a bit too hard to see Mt. Rainier from the city he calls the ban for everyone between the city and the mountain even though those of us who live outside of the city are not polluted at all.

    Burning is only allowed if it your only adequate source of heat. That's a big deal. You need to have nothing else capable of heating your home so those of use with baseboard heat must crank up those high dollar heaters during these super cold snaps.

    It is BS. Write a letter to PSClean air even an email. They just got a new director so maybe he will listen. The biggest problem I see is that they are punishing the whole region for a city problem. They have not been able to show that rural woodburning contributes to city pollution levels. In fact, they shut off some rural monitor stations since the data being reported always showed very clean air during the bans.

    I didn't even know we were under a ban. Stove is stoked.
  21. Renovation

    Renovation New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,087
    Loc:
    SW MI near Saugatuck
    Nice photo. Yep, it looks better today on the EPA cam as well:

    http://www.pscleanair.org/airq/visibility/default.aspx

    When I lived in the San Francisco Bay area, on my daily bike ride up the mountain I'd ride up through the inversion layer, and stop at the top and check the smog below, just like checking the weather. An unfortunate aspect of modern life. I'm sorry Seattle has the same issues.
  22. Hanko

    Hanko Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    795
    Loc:
    livingstion co, Michigan
    wonder how many bozos burn old tires in their outside wood boilers out there
  23. DanCorcoran

    DanCorcoran Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,097
    Loc:
    Richmond, VA
    Hey, don't sweat it. Polluted air only causes problems long term for the elderly, children, and those with breathing problems. You'll be fine.
  24. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    9,431
    Loc:
    base of Mt. Rainier on the wet side, WA
    We don't have polluted air. The inner urban city dwellers do, and even that can be debated. The issue here is that the air quality of the city is used to determine when folks hundreds of miles away can burn their modern clean burn appliances.

    The clean air agency should be given credit for at least posting a stage 1 ban before the stage 2. I think it is vital to make those folks with smoke dragons suffer a bit to encourage them to pick up modern stoves.

    As I recall, wood boilers and I think even wood furnaces have been banned in WA for a long long time.
  25. DanCorcoran

    DanCorcoran Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,097
    Loc:
    Richmond, VA
    "Here we go again with this burn ban crap."

    In that case, Highbeam, the thread should probably have been entitled, "I Sure Wish Our Air Quality Areas Were More Appropriately Delineated". I doubt that anyone would have read it, though.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page