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My Progress has shipped!

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by HollowHill, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Maybe Woodstock should of waited a little more to release this stove? Seems like a lot of delays due to testing, cast parts, certification and what ever else can go wrong. I bet they feel a little overwhelmed releasing this right in the middle of the burning season. I'm sure they are busting their butts and doing the best they can and will make it right, probably keep extending the sale til they get all their ducks in a row.

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  2. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    I think that's why WS gave us guinni pigs a decent break on the stove. I can't get annoyed with all these delays - and there may even be some later tweaks, but we knew this up front. My biggest concern so far is how well the stove burns on low.
  3. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Tony, I think you saw it burning on low at the Open House. Also while it was in R&D we saw some amazing lows being burned. I also liked that time I asked Tom to turn the stove down on how the stove reacted.
  4. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    I know it's too early to tell yet but I have to question the low burn output as well. If you want a smouldering cat burn to achieve that 16+ hour burn will the secondary baffle keep this from happening? I've seen the videos and heard the techs say the secondaries will last forever at a low burn, well if they do you won't get that long smouldering cat burn and it will be more or less a non cat stove with a pretty flame and a cat to clean up anything that's left.

    As long as there is flame in the box the cat doesn't have to work as hard. I can see this with my Keystones. You can get that lazy flame going with the cat barely glowing then the flame goes out and the cat turns beet red, then the flame bursts back and the cat stops glowing again. If I want a 12 hour burn I need to shut down the flame and let the cat take over otherwise the flames burn up the load quicker like a non cat stove.

    Maybe they figured something out for this stove to burn either or but a 12-16 hour burn for this stove doesn't impress me yet. I think it should be longer if you can eliminate the secondaries and go with a cat burn. A similar sized Blaze King can go 24+ hours.
  5. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Not real good news on the plinth base as it might be delayed a bit longer than suspected but it is yet to be determined for sure I think. In our case it won't matter much as it will still give us time with the Fireview to see how it does when it gets cold outside. The weather has been such that it has not had a workout yet this year and we have yet to fill it completely this year. So, with the addition and remodel, we are still in the dark as to how the Fireview will do in winter.

    EDIT: Keep watch as it appears a mass email will be out soon.
  6. Waulie

    Waulie Minister of Fire

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    This is my biggest concern as well, Todd. Monday is my install day and will be reporting next week on what sort of long slow burns I can get since I'm going to need them with this weather. I'm concered I'm going to half to use small loads most of the time to not roast myself if the initial reports are accurate.
  7. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    Well, I hope I'm wrong and the stove turns out some 24 hour burns. Maybe it won't til they develop a t-stat for it, I know they were looking into a few different options
  8. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Todd, I think you are asking a bit too much if expecting a 24 hour burn. If you could get that I would suppose you would not get the stove very hot and you would not be happy with the results. I'm thinking even a 16 hour burn is asking a bit much. Perhaps if you don't want a lot of heat it might work but I'm betting a really great 12 hour burn is very possible.
  9. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    I don't think I'm asking too much if there is already another similar sized stove on the market that can do a 24 hour burn. I realize you won't need that long burn in the middle of the Winter but it sure is nice during the shoulder seasons. The t-stat is the key for these long, even, low output burns. Heck, Blaze King is coming out with a new stove that burns 20 hours on a load of softwood and it has the same fire box size as the Fireview.
  10. 3fordasho

    3fordasho Feeling the Heat

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    I'd be happy with a good 12hr burn with medium btu woods like elm, green ash, and hackberry.
  11. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    Todd: I remember questioning/looking at this specific issue at the Pig Roast. I noticed for a low burn, the primary butterfly valve closed completely and the secondary valve almost completely. There could still be changes to this valve depending on user experience, and of course the potential upgrade with a thermostat.

    I've learned with the FV, the perfect outdoor temperature for a 12 hour burn in my 2200 sq ft house is about 35 degrees F. Any colder and I need to push the stove harder to keep the stove room at 70F (large room, cathedral ceilings). The house has tons of oversized windows. I cannot wait to see with the Progress what outdoor temp gives me a 12 hr burn with 70F stove room.
  12. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    That's interesting info about that butterfly valve. Maybe with the primary completely shut it goes completely cat mode?

    I'm in about the same boat as you with outside air temps. 30's and I can get away with 1 stove with 12 hour burns, 20's I run 1 stove a little harder and teens or below I'm looking at firing the other stove. Next year may be a different story with my new addition.
  13. leeave96

    leeave96 Minister of Fire

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    It would be nice to see this stove go toe to toe in burn times with the Blaze King Princess. I think they have similar firebox sizes.

    Blaze King burn times + Woodstock looks = WINNING COMBINATION!!!

    Bill
  14. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    Todd is not asking too much at all. In fact, not enough. The chinook from BK is rated for 30+ hour burn times on low. That's why we want cat stoves, the long burn times. You can get cleaner burns, high efficiency, and high temps out of a non-cat if all you want is a medium burn temp.

    Anybody making a new cat stove needs to be shooting for max burn times and using a stat is likely required. Woodstock did a lot of things right with the PH. Excellent clearances, top exit flue and bigger firebox. The users will tell us if this thing is a performer.

    Medium/high burn performance is pretty irrelevant, you can get that from a vogelzang.
  15. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    I just read the owner's manual for the Progress. In the EPA approval section it says: "Under specific test conditions,this stove has been shown to deliver heat at rates ranging from 10,900 to 74,020 BTU/hr.

    My Fireview manual says: Under specific test conditions, this stove has been shown to deliver heat at rates ranging from 13,400 to 40,500 BTu/hr. under EPA laboratory test conditions."

    The suspense is killing me, my install is not until next Thursday!
  16. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    If/when this stove comes out I think a steel stove is in your future. :) So far I've had to push the Princess at a pretty good pace to make room for 12 hour reloads. I went 24 hours yesterday and today. Yesterday was easy since it was warm today I came home to a cool house around 67* but was able to load off the coals with no issue. This was also on a load of soft maple(silver).


    Bummer on the stove seeing more delay's. It has to be tough trying to launch a new stove at the peak of the heating frenzy.
  17. binko

    binko Member

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    I've had my Progress for 5 days now and still trying to find a happy medium for a long burn.
    If I slow it way down to just a cat burn, the window completely soots up . If I have it active enough for minimal secondary burn, I go thru a FULL load of wood in about 6 to 7 hours.
    I hope that I find a formula that works since my Keystone would burn longer on a lot less wood and was not nearly as finicky on the settings.
    I really love the looks of the stove (It's a work of art) and I really really want it to perform as promised. I Hope that it's going to happen.
  18. raybonz

    raybonz Minister of Fire

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    Sounds like your wood may not be dry enough.. I agree that's a lot of wood to go through in 6-7 hrs..

    Good luck,
    'Ray
  19. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    That doesn't sound too good, 6-7 hours should be a high burn rate for this stove with good hardwood. That's what I see with my Keystones with an air setting at a little over #1. Maybe you just need a little more time with the stove? How does the heat output compare to the old Keystone?
  20. binko

    binko Member

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    It's the same wood that I have been using on My Keystone. It is well seasoned-that's not an issue. The amount of heat generated during that 6-7 hr period is higher than the Keystone but it's more heat than I need. The stove was presented as one with a very wide temp operating range. It works great if you want to quickly heat up a cold house or put on a show with the beautiful secondary flames burning. Unfortunately that is not a real world operating environment. We all want to be able to load up a stove at night for a nice steady long uniform burn at night with embers remaining in the morning for an easy refill. What's happening now is what one would expect from a non-cat stove-a lot of heat the first few hours making for quick consumption of the wood followed by a rapid falloff of temp as the wood is consumed. On my Keystone I was able to have the nice steady output just as it was advertised. I elected to switch to the Progress for two reasons: 1 is the larger firebox for easier loading and not have to worry about how to match up the pieces to be able to get a full load into the smaller firebox. 2 is simply because the Progress is stunningly beautiful on appearance. I will give it every chance to work and seek advice from the Woodstock folks however it does not make sense to use twice as much wood and have way too much heat coming off for a short duration burn. I could actually get longer burns from my Keystone. It was not unusual to go 14-16 hours with it and still have enough embers for a re-light.
  21. fire_man

    fire_man Minister of Fire

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    Kochis:

    It almost sounds like an air leak somewhere. I think you said your stove has an ashpan. Could there be a leak somewhere there? what about the door gasket? Can you see the two butterfly valves in the back (primary and secondary)? I think for a very low burn the primary should close completely and the secondary be slightly cracked. Keep us posted.
  22. ciccio

    ciccio Member

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    Kochis, I have been burning the stove for almost a week now, I have not had any problems with the glass sooting up, I only filled the stove up full just a few times because the weather here in new jersey has not been that cold. The wood I am using right now is maple with maybe just one or two pieces of small oak mixed in, I'm still using a lot of uglies and small pieces that do not fill the fire box tight. This is what I have been doing after I engage the cat the damper is usually in the half open position i keep it there for about another ten minutes or so then I close it all the way down and then I move the damper up just about one quarter inch....the secondaries are really going pretty good even though the damper is almost closed I never timed it but I would say the last for about a couple of hours or more then I noticed that they do stop and all I get is the red glowing embers in the bottom of the stove ( here is where the long cat burn begins I believe..I am at that stage right now as we speak after five hours of burning my stove top temp is about 350 and flue about 210(with not a full load of wood maybe three quarters full)with a big piece of wood in the back of the fire box and a big mound of coals in the bottom of the fire box, room where stove is 75 and upstairs where I installed a cast iron floor grate that is directly above stove is 70 which I am very happy with,the furnace has been shut off after I got the stove, its night and day compared to my old stove.....Next year is when I can give a better report because my wood should be so much better by then, but for now I can honestly say I am happy with the stove and I love the soft heat, I really want to see some cold weather so I can see what the stove does then..
  23. leeave96

    leeave96 Minister of Fire

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    I should think you could turn this stove down, snuff out the flames and get a cat only burn for some very nice burn times. If that ain't happening, my guess is you have an air leak (allowing the stove to burn hotter) or some overdraft. Keep at it - do a dollar bill test, etc., to find any leaks, work with Woodstock and keep us posted on your progress.

    FWIW - with both my Keystone and my Englander installs it took several weeks of "chewing nails" before I learned the stove and really how to operate them for my set-up. I think over time you will figure out this stove and be very happy with it.

    Good luck,
    Bill
  24. binko

    binko Member

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    I have checked the air control in the back and it appears to close off completely. I was extra careful with the ashpan installation to insure that the edge of it was seating into the gasketing material. I found that the air control does appear to limit the available air going into the stove because when throttled down, the flames immediately around the wood get real slow and lazy. Where the flames are really cooking is up top with the secondary combustion. It appears that this is where most of the excess air is coming in and not only feeding the re-burn for secondary combustion but also feeding the primary fire as well. Last night was cold and so I loaded the stove to about 80% capacity and allowed the wood to start burning thoroughly. I closed the damper down completely. The activity at the lower part of the stove around the wood was well under control, however again the secondary combustion was so active that it had our family room up to 85 deg. There were enough embers this AM for a relight, but again not the potential 16 hrs expected. If I could fit a similar amount of wood (which I can't) into my Keystone, it would probably go 24 hours or more. I will again call the Woodstock team on Monday and get their thoughts.They really are caring and very helpful. I hope that it's me doing something wrong.
  25. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

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    How soon did you turn down the air completely? Do you think maybe this stove needs to be turned down sooner to get the cat to take the load before the fire box comes up to temp for the non cat secondaries kick in? I can see where a hot box will keep those non cat secondaries going and steal most of the air to keep it going. Cat stoves run cooler fire boxes and are designed so the secondary air goes directly to the cat. Does this stove have a place to insert a cat probe?

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