No secondary action?

[mepellet]

Hi all. Just had my first fire in my new to me Napoleon 1100c. Lit up fine and within 15 minutes or so, I had kindling going good and internal flue temp at about 700. Put a few short splits in north/south and let them start to catch then dampened down the air. I was expecting to see some secondary action. There was none. The flames didn't immediately change when closing down the damper like I was expecting to see. They did get slightly lazier and continued for about 45 minutes to an hour until the 3 splits were burned down a good ways. The entire time, the internal flue temp stayed around 700. I was expecting to see the flue temp drop at first and then cruise along around 400-500. Wood is 3 year seasoned oak and seemed to catch fine.

I worry about loading the stove up tight and then having a runaway even with the damper closed.

Any ideas? I am new to EPA stoves.

 

[Sons924]

Maybe not a good enough bed of coals after just 3 splits?

 

[Oregon aloha]

Mine was the same way. Give it time the firebricks need time to dry out and the stove needs to get broke in. As Sons says, without a coal bed it's hard to get the light show.

 

[mepellet]

Maybe not a good enough bed of coals after just 3 splits?

Perhaps. But the flue temp was already up to 700 and I didn't want to add more small pieces to get a good coal bed and the flue temp go even higher.

Again, running an EPA stove is new to me so I am willing to bet it was operator error.

 

[mepellet]

Mine was the same way. Give it time the firebricks need time to dry out and the stove needs to get broke in. As Sons says, without a coal bed it's hard to get the light show.

I bought the stove used but did replace 5 of the firebricks.

 

[Sons924]

Especially if the stove was cleaned out and there was no starter ash on the bottom, it will take some time to get the coal bed to make heat from the bottom which helps with the secondaries. Mine is the same way

 

[Todd]

Make sure you baffle is installed correctly, there should be no gaps in the back or sides.

 

[mepellet]

Especially if the stove was cleaned out and there was no starter ash on the bottom, it will take some time to get the coal bed to make heat from the bottom which helps with the secondaries. Mine is the same way

Ok. Yes I did vacuum out the stove before putting in the new firebricks. I also vacuumed out the ash that was left in from the previous owner. So maybe the next fire will go better.

 

[mepellet]

Any concerns about the 700 degree internal flue temp (according to the condar fluegard probe thermometer)? I noticed the class a chimney in the attic was hot to the touch. Couldn't hold my hand to it for more than a second or two.

 

[mepellet]

Make sure you baffle is installed correctly, there should be no gaps in the back or sides.

You must have read my other post. I do have them pushed all the way back and they go from side to side. I do wonder about the orientation though....

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/napoleon-baffles.116597/

 

[Todd]

Any concerns about the 700 degree internal flue temp (according to the condar fluegard probe thermometer)? I noticed the class a chimney in the attic was hot to the touch. Couldn't hold my hand to it for more than a second or two.

I think 500-700 is about right for a full load. How big were your splits, was it a smaller load? Maybe it just wasn't enough to get those fire box temps up enough to produce a good secondary burn?

 

[mepellet]

I think 500-700 is about right for a full load. How big were your splits, was it a smaller load? Maybe it just wasn't enough to get those fire box temps up enough to produce a good secondary burn?

It was a smaller load. The firebox is small to begin with but being my first fire I wanted to be sure I could control it. I put in three ~12" splits that measured approx. 4"-5" (north south). I wonder what would happen though if I did load it up and close the damper down. My biggest fear is a runaway at the moment is a runaway.

 

[Todd]

You must have read my other post. I do have them pushed all the way back and they go from side to side. I do wonder about the orientation though....

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/napoleon-baffles.116597/

Not sure about your baffle, maybe you can look it up in the manual. I know the gap should only be in the front.

 

[mepellet]

Not sure about your baffle, maybe you can look it up in the manual. I know the gap should only be in the front.

Unfortunately the manual does not speak to the orientation of the baffle. I created a separate thread for that in hopes of another napoleon owner chiming in.

 

[mepellet]

I just watched a video on youtube of a napoleon 2300 (I have a 1100c) and the video starts out with how my stove looked. Then he closed the damper and the flames die down almost instantly from the splits and move up to the secondaries. My flames barely died down. It was almost unnoticeable.

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[Todd]

I understand your concerns but I think your ok if your baffle is ok. Internal fire box temps need to reach 1100 degrees before secondaries light off so higher flue temps may be seen until the stove heats up.

 

[mepellet]

I understand your concerns but I think your ok if your baffle is ok. Internal fire box temps need to reach 1100 degrees before secondaries light off so higher flue temps may be seen until the stove heats up.

Thanks Todd. I appreciate your input. You have put me slightly more at ease. I just worry more than needed sometimes. But I do want to see the secondaries!!

 

[Todd]

I think there are a few people here with your stove that can help you out with that baffle. Maybe post a picture would help.

 

[oldspark]

Correct me if I am wrong but 700 internal=350 or so surface (someone on this forum did some extensive testing) and for my stove in my instalation I would not get good secondaries, my flue temps have been high since I bought the Summit with two different chimneys, not sure how just a few feet from a 1100 degree fire the flue temps can be so low.
If 700 degrees internal = 350 surface that is on the low side for start up, surface thermometers have 450 as the high side which would = 900 or so internal.
The temps drop quickly as you go a few feet up the pipe as tested with a IR testor.

 

[Todd]

Yep, I've tested internal verses external and found the internal temps pretty much double the external with a Condar probe 18" up the pipe.

I think 700 internal is a good cruising temp for a non cat and 1000 at the beginning of the burn or a high burn is not uncommon from what I've heard here.

 

[oldspark]

I thought it was you Todd and yes I agree with the 700 (350 surface) crusing and 1000 (500 surface) on startup and reload, mine has a hard time with that.
So my point is then his 700 on startup might be a tad low for what he wants to see and not to worry, keep it below 1000 and he should be fine.

 

[Todd]

I thought it was you Todd and yes I agree with the 700 (350 surface) crusing and 1000 (500 surface) on startup and reload, mine has a hard time with that.
So my point is then his 700 on startup might be a tad low for what he wants to see and not to worry, keep it below 1000 and he should be fine.

Agreed

 

[mepellet]

so sounds like I need to actually go up to 1000 with the flue thermometer prior to shutting the air down and perhaps try to develop a better coal/ash bed. What is a safe temp for the outside of class A chimney in the attic? It was hotter than I thought it was going to be. Could only leave my hand on it for a couple seconds.

 

[mepellet]

because the flames didn't die down when i closed the damper, do you think there may be an air leak? Or is that normal for the circumstances (small coal bed, some new firebrick, etc.) and temps I was at?

 

[Todd]

I don't know about the temps for class A but it should be ok if it is installed correctly and meets clearance requirements.

Do the dollar bill test on your door and also check your air control slide. It is possible something came loose since it's used.